Good beer gone bad

[Bru-noob]

I brewed a Pliny clone and kegged it after primary. After 23 hours on gas at serving pressure I opened keg up and added gelatin (first time doing this). Closed her up and let her sit. I've pulled a few samples between then and now and, while undercarbed, seemed to look good and smell really good. So lsat night I take another sample and it seems to have lost its goodness both in taste and smell. Like severely... All within a few days. Some said there might be an infection? I suppose its possible however I really try to keep everything post boil sanitized. I guess I'm just bummed because it was doing soo good and I was really looking forward to it. Any ideas? The taste now has a slight Belgian twang and smell is hard to describe but no hop goodness that's for sure...

 

[bigbeergeek]

Is it full carbonated? Partially carbed beer has less perceived aroma (happy or otherwise) than properly carbed beer.

A freshly dry-hopped "green" beer will always be at its hoppy peak. As tiny hop particles drift to the bottom of the keg that intensity always declines. How long has it been in the keg?

What was your recipe/dry hopping schedule?

Also, pressurizing/venting kegs always strips some of the hop flavor. I'd skip that next time.

Add gelatin to room temperature beer in the fermentor, then cold crash the carboy for four days, then rack to your serving keg.

 

[Bru-noob]

its been on the gas for 7 days.. I guess Ill wait it out..

recipe:
14lbs 2-row
4oz English C60
11.5oz Dextrose
1oz Apollo 90
.33oz CTZ 90
.5oz Amarillo 45
1oz Simcoe 30
.75oz ea: Cascade, Centennial, Amarillo, Simcoe 0
WLP090 – Super San Diego Yeast

Dry Hop 1:
1oz Simcoe
.833oz Cascade
.5oz CTZ

Dry Hop 2:
1oz Simcoe
.75oz Cascade
.36oz Amarillo
.36oz CTZ

I saw a youtube video that said you should add gelatin to 38-40* beer.. oh well.. Honestly Im gonna skip gelatin from now on! If the NE IPA gets applause for being cloudy then my beer will too... haha..
Thanks for the advice. Always appreciated

 

[bigbeergeek]

4 oz of dry hops is pretty light for a Pliny clone. I'd double them next time!

 

[doug293cz]

I brewed a Pliny clone and kegged it after primary. After 23 hours on gas at serving pressure I opened keg up and added gelatin (first time doing this). Closed her up and let her sit. I've pulled a few samples between then and now and, while undercarbed, seemed to look good and smell really good. So lsat night I take another sample and it seems to have lost its goodness both in taste and smell. Like severely... All within a few days. Some said there might be an infection? I suppose its possible however I really try to keep everything post boil sanitized. I guess I'm just bummed because it was doing soo good and I was really looking forward to it. Any ideas? The taste now has a slight Belgian twang and smell is hard to describe but no hop goodness that's for sure...

Is it full carbonated? Partially carbed beer has less perceived aroma (happy or otherwise) than properly carbed beer.

A freshly dry-hopped "green" beer will always be at its hoppy peak. As tiny hop particles drift to the bottom of the keg that intensity always declines. How long has it been in the keg?

What was your recipe/dry hopping schedule?

Also, pressurizing/venting kegs always strips some of the hop flavor. I'd skip that next time.

Add gelatin to room temperature beer in the fermentor, then cold crash the carboy for four days, then rack to your serving keg.

Hoppy beers are incredibly sensitive to loss of flavor from oxidation. Several members of HBT have reported that the storage life, especially of the hop flavor and aroma, of their hoppy brews has improved significantly since they have gotten really anal about minimizing O2 exposure after fermentation. Oxidation comes from these areas:

• Opening the fermenter after fermentation has slowed/stopped. Diffusion and convection will allow significant O2 into the headspace. There is no protective effect from a CO2 blanket. You will get O2 into the headspace.
• Cold crashing. Reducing the temp of the fermenter causes the pressure in the headspace to drop, which in turn causes air (O2) suck back into the headspace. The longer you cold crash, the more oxidation will occur.
• Racking. This process also increases the O2 content of the headspace due to backfill of the emptied volume. But a bigger concern is any splashing or turbulence of the beer in the receiving vessel. And an air leak into the racking plumbing is absolutely the worst as far as oxidation is concerned.
• Not adequately purging the keg headspace of O2. Eventually, much (or all) of the O2 in the headspace will make it into the beer, causing oxidation in a mater of weeks or days, depending on O2 concentration and temperature.

So, what to do to minimize O2 pickup?

• Avoid opening the fermenter. If you can afford one, the electronic, in fermenter, hydrometers can eliminate most of the requirements to open a fermenter.
• Limit cold crashing before packaging to 2 - 3 days max. Or, use a closed system that eliminates air suck back during cold crashing (not an easy thing to implement correctly.)
• Fill the keg completely (to overflow) with sanitizer, and then push the sanitizer out with CO2. Leave the keg sealed until racking.
• Rack to the keg thru the liquid out post with the PRV open, or a QD on the gas post for pressure relief. Even better if you can do a totally closed transfer by pushing from the fermenter with CO2 (to prevent O2 suck back into the fermenter headspace during racking.)
• Pressurize and vent the keg headspace five cycles or so to minimize any O2 remaining (due to incomplete keg fill during the CO2 fill.)
• If you can't rack to a closed, CO2 filled keg, then rack to the bottom of the keg, while minimizing splashing. When the keg is full, do 13 pressurize/vent cycles at 30 psi to get the O2 content in the headspace down to 0.1 - 0.2 ppm.

It really does take 13 purge cycles to get the O2 content to what's required if you don't do a closed transfer into a CO2 filled keg. See the chart and table below.





Racking to a keg via an open lid is NOT closed transfer, and there is no CO2 blanket to keep O2 away from your beer.

Headspace purge cycles in quick succession will not significantly reduce hop aroma/flavor, as there is insufficient time between purges for the aroma compounds to diffuse out of the beer into the headspace. You do want to minimize purging the headspace after the keg has been put into service, as in this case there will be time for hop compounds to have diffused into the headspace.

Finally, most of the gelatin "how-to" write-ups I have seen recommend adding the gelatin after chilling the beer, not while it is warm.

Brew on

 

[skraeling]

Hoppy beers are incredibly sensitive to loss of flavor from oxidation. Several members of HBT have reported that the storage life, especially of the hop flavor and aroma, of their hoppy brews has improved significantly since they have gotten really anal about minimizing O2 exposure after fermentation. Oxidation comes from these areas:

• Opening the fermenter after fermentation has slowed/stopped. Diffusion and convection will allow significant O2 into the headspace. There is no protective effect from a CO2 blanket. You will get O2 into the headspace.
  
• Cold crashing. Reducing the temp of the fermenter causes the pressure in the headspace to drop, which in turn causes air (O2) suck back into the headspace. The longer you cold crash, the more oxidation will occur.
  
• Racking. This process also increases the O2 content of the headspace due to backfill of the emptied volume. But a bigger concern is any splashing or turbulence of the beer in the receiving vessel. And an air leak into the racking plumbing is absolutely the worst as far as oxidation is concerned.
  
• Not adequately purging the keg headspace of O2. Eventually, much (or all) of the O2 in the headspace will make it into the beer, causing oxidation in a mater of weeks or days, depending on O2 concentration and temperature.
  

So, what to do to minimize O2 pickup?

• Avoid opening the fermenter. If you can afford one, the electronic, in fermenter, hydrometers can eliminate most of the requirements to open a fermenter.
  
• Limit cold crashing before packaging to 2 - 3 days max. Or, use a closed system that eliminates air suck back during cold crashing (not an easy thing to implement correctly.)
  
• Fill the keg completely (to overflow) with sanitizer, and then push the sanitizer out with CO2. Leave the keg sealed until racking.
  
• Rack to the keg thru the liquid out post with the PRV open, or a QD on the gas post for pressure relief. Even better if you can do a totally closed transfer by pushing from the fermenter with CO2 (to prevent O2 suck back into the fermenter headspace during racking.)
  
• Pressurize and vent the keg headspace five cycles or so to minimize any O2 remaining (due to incomplete keg fill during the CO2 fill.)
  
• If you can't rack to a closed, CO2 filled keg, then rack to the bottom of the keg, while minimizing splashing. When the keg is full, do 13 pressurize/vent cycles at 30 psi to get the O2 content in the headspace down to 0.1 - 0.2 ppm.
  

It really does take 13 purge cycles to get the O2 content to what's required if you don't do a closed transfer into a CO2 filled keg. See the chart and table below.



View attachment 372528



View attachment 372529



Racking to a keg via an open lid is NOT closed transfer, and there is no CO2 blanket to keep O2 away from your beer.



Headspace purge cycles in quick succession will not significantly reduce hop aroma/flavor, as there is insufficient time between purges for the aroma compounds to diffuse out of the beer into the headspace. You do want to minimize purging the headspace after the keg has been put into service, as in this case there will be time for hop compounds to have diffused into the headspace.



Finally, most of the gelatin "how-to" write-ups I have seen recommend adding the gelatin after chilling the beer, not while it is warm.



Brew on

I can't wait till I get a nice conical and do closed transfers straight to a pressurized keg.