Gelatin-Beer won't clear

[Sudstud]

Just double checking my process here. I have fined a few batches with gelatin in the keg but for some reason I'm having mixed results and I have a Union Jack clone that just won't drop clear.

I realize that time will most likely drop the beer clear, but it seems most who use gelatin have solid results within a week. I have hit this UJ clone with gelatin twice now and its still heavily hazed. For my personal taste, I think clear beers just taste better and always seem to notice a better distinction in flavor after my beers drop clean.

My process for brewing, kegging and using gelatin-
1) Whirlfloc in the boil
2) Dryhop with 10% fermentation left (Tasty McD method)
3) Leave dry hops for 5-7 days at 70 degrees
4) Transfer to Keg (I don't crash first)
5) Place keg in Kegerator overnight to cool to 38ish
8) Make up Gelatin mix and add
a) add 1/2 pack to 1 sanitized cup water
b) let bloom for 1 hour
c) heat in microwave using 15 second bursts until clear and 150 degrees
d) dump into keg
e) purge and gently swirl keg
9) wait at least 48 hours and pull of a cloudy pint or two

Some my beers are sparkly clean within a few days, others like the UJ never seem to clear. Ive done the UJ twice now and both times it has stayed cloudy.

Am I doing something obviously wrong in this process?

 

[BrewingGunner]

I don't let it bloom for more than 15 min, but other than that...it's identical to my process. Wonder why it's not clearing?

 

[JuanMoore]

Does the haze go away if you let the beer warm up to room temp?

 

[Sudstud]

Does the haze go away if you let the beer warm up to room temp?

Nope, I'm pretty sure it's not chill haze.

I use a Jamil style whirlpool chiller to knock the temps down pretty quickly and get a good cold break. Although this does raise another question I have thought about-I whirlpool my 0 min additions on hoppy beers for 10-20 minutes before turning the chiller on (like Firestone Walker does). Would this have any effect?

 

[BrewingGunner]

What yeast did you use?

 

[Warthaug]

Gelatin can only pull proteins and yeast out of suspension (shameless self-promotion: I have a blog post on the biochemistry of gelatin). So if the gelatin is not clearing the beer you may have other issues.

You didn't say much about your process, but if all-graining you may have a bit of suspended starch. It could also be an incomplete fermentation (on-going fermentation will re-suspend the yeast, even in the presence of gelatin), or even an infection. Its theoretically possible that you had huge protein levels and saturated out the gelatin - but given the amount of gelatin you used & the beer style, I have trouble believing that.

You can always drink it in a pewter/clay mug, or in the dark. . .if it really bothers you I volunteer to "dispose" of it for you. ;-)

Bryan

 

[Sudstud]

BrewingGunner- WLP 002 with a 2L starter

Warthaug- I have a 3 vessel all grain system with false bottom, I vorlauf the wort and sparge water until clear (batch sparging) before adding it to the kettle. This batch sits in the fermenter for roughly 17 days before kegging since it has a double dry hop, normally my ales finish out in 5-7 days. I hold the temp at 67 for 3-5 days then bump it to 70 until fermentation completes, after that I will let it sit for another week at terminal gravity before kegging. This process may seem a little quick but I am getting great results...other than the haze.

Thanks for the link! It may have given me the answers I was looking for. I may not be letting my boiled water cool enough before adding the gelatin to bloom and I have only been gently warming to 150 since thats what most people recommend, also I dont let it cool before adding it. I appreciate the time you took to explain the science behind things, that helps a ton!

Infection has crossed my mind, but I'd like to think my process is better than that...I'm pretty darn careful with my sanitation but certainly not above screwing up.

PS-I will be keeping the beer as it's damn tasty, just not perfect yet! lol

 

[JuanMoore]

What was your mash schedule? Did you check for full conversion (iodine test)?

 

[Sudstud]

To be honest, I've never checked for full conversion with iodine. I just give it an hour to make sure the mash is clear before vorlaufing. My efficiency is 81% on every batch. I am interested in where you are going with this question.

I did an hour rest at 149 then vorlaufed for 15min or so.

 

[JuanMoore]

To be honest, I've never checked for full conversion with iodine. I just give it an hour to make sure the mash is clear before vorlaufing. My efficiency is 81% on every batch. I am interested in where you are going with this question.

I did an hour rest at 149 then vorlaufed for 15min or so.

Just because the wort has been vorlaufed and looks relatively clear doesn't mean there's not a few unconverted starches suspended. At lower mash temps it takes longer for full conversion. Depending on malt quality, whether you include the dough in as part of the mash time, and how even your mash temps are throughout the mash tun, it may take longer than 75 min for full conversion at 149. Even longer if your thermo is off a degree and you were actually at 148. At higher mash temps using quality malts full conversion can be as quick as 20 min.

You said some of your beers take much longer to clear than others. If the ones with lower mash temps are the ones taking longer to clear, you may not be getting full conversion. Even if there's no mash temp correlation, it could still be incomplete conversion from temp stratification/cold spots in the mash tun, or from incomplete dough-in/dough balls.

 

[hio3791]

I am not sure if this makes a difference but instead of heating the water with gelatin to 150 using microwave "bursts", I bring a half of cup of water to a boil, and once it cools down to below 160, I then add the gelatin to the hot water. I continue to stir it until it complete dissolves. Once it dissolves, I'll dump it into the chilled keg. I don't wait for it to bloom or cool, I just dump it in as soon as it dissolves. Purge the O2 and shake the keg. After a couple of days, it's clear.

 

[Sudstud]

You said some of your beers take much longer to clear than others. If the ones with lower mash temps are the ones taking longer to clear, you may not be getting full conversion. Even if there's no mash temp correlation, it could still be incomplete conversion from temp stratification/cold spots in the mash tun, or from incomplete dough-in/dough balls.

When I say I wait for the wort to be clear, I mean before the vorlauf, but now that you mention it, it does seem like my beers that rest at below 150 are the ones that struggle with clearing...Hmmm. I usually stir the mash a few times during the rest as I take PH readings. That along with the gelatin procedure could be some good places to start refining my process.

Thanks so much for the help, guys. This has been pretty informative for me.

 

[m3n00b]

My gelatin beer is super clear. The only things I do differently are:

Bloom for 20 minutes
Heat in a sauce pan to 170f then dump the 170f gelatin on top of my 38F beer. Let it sit for at least 2 days.

 

[RmikeVT]

No one has mentioned hop haze. You dry hopped this beer. Drying hopping adds haze to beers that you can not remove. Pour a commerical dry hopped beer into a glass and its hazy. DIPA are some ugly beers.

 

[m3n00b]

No one has mentioned hop haze. You dry hopped this beer. Drying hopping adds haze to beers that you can not remove. Pour a commerical dry hopped beer into a glass and its hazy. DIPA are some ugly beers.

I can get my dry hopped beers to clear using cold crashing/gelatin.