Frozen Apple Juice Concentrate, Which is Best?

[MindenMan]

Up until yesterday I had only used the Great Value 'generic" FAJC which contains juice from concentrate and Vitamin C. The store was out of the GV brand so I purchased a few cans of Tree Top FAJC. After pouring it into the fermenters, I tasted the last couple of drops from the bottom of the can and immediately noticed the two brands tasted very differently. I looked at the Tree Top ingredient list and Malic Acid came between the juice from concentrate and the Vitamin C--no wonder they taste very different. I am not going to cry over $0.30 difference in each can I use but I wonder if using T.T. will put too much Malic Acid in the finished juice, but more specifically after I freeze concentrate it, will it potentially ruin the flavor of my applejack? Does anyone here have experience with this scenario or something similar? All input is welcome, thank you.

 

[phug]

Did the concentrated concentrate taste too acidic? If not then you'll probably be fine after freeze concentrating

 

[Maylar]

I'm clueless about what flavor profile you'd want in an ice cider or apple jack. But for regular hard cider, some malic acid is highly desirable. It gives a bit of a bite, and makes the cider "crisp" and refreshing. It has to be balanced against the sweetness though, too much acid makes it puckering.

Too much acid can be reduced by using 71B-1122 yeast. That'll metabolize some of the malic acid and mellow it out.

 

[MindenMan]

phug, thank you for your response. No, it did not taste too acidic as the last few drops out of the can tasted incredibly good. I currently have applejack in their aging bottles made with 2 tsp of acid blend added to 4 gallons of a 5 gallon batch prior to freezing. There is a distinct difference in the flavor between the 4 gallon portion and the 1 gallon portion; the 1 gallon portion tastes "flat" by comparison.

Maylar, thank you for the info in the 71B, I do appreciate it. I may give it a try one of these days. The only caveat as I have been told, is MLF does not occur at high alcohol levels and the point of making applejack of course is to concentrate the alcohol.

With all the reading and searching I have done regarding 4184 Sweet Mead Yeast, there have been no other posts discussing it's ability to ferment happily at 34*F, or the fruit profile it generates at less than 60*F. I will have to wait until I have a larger temperature controlled space available before I run a test batch of 71B yeast-ed cider.

 

[phug]

Acid additions will brighten up a flabby cider as long as you don't over do it

 

[MindenMan]

That was the word I could not think of... flabby. I realize everything we make we do so because that is the way we have learned to like something to taste. I guess the real question is, once we learn the difference how do we make the change without making a couple or more of "bad" batches trying to hit the sweet spot? My tastes in beer have changed, and now so has my taste in cider(s).

 

[Maylar]

Good questions. One way I can think of is to measure pH and acid level (TA) of ciders we like and use that as a guide. Fortunately the setup required is fairly affordable. I've recently acquired acid testing stuff after having a profound revelation about how important it is, and I'll be doing that in the future.

My case in point is 2 virtually identical batches that I started last fall/winter. Same orchard source, temperature, etc. One was done with S-04 and the other with 71B yeast. Both aged for 7-8 months before kegging and sweetened to the same levels. The S-04 batch was fantastic with a nice crisp finish. The 71B batch is bland (flabby? lol) by comparison and nowhere near as refreshing. The 71B did as advertised, it reduced the malic acid and with 2 ciders side by side it's obvious.

So from now on I'll measure the acid levels of my must and only use the 71B if it's on the "high" side. There are published figures for that.

 

[MindenMan]

Maylar, once again thank you. I had wondered about a side-by-side comparison in a split batch of cider. I have some crab apples I am planning on making wine out of and 71B has been recommended to me more than once for that specific batch. Based on my current love of 4184 yeast for making hard cider, applejack, and apple ice wine, I will keep the changes to a minimum and keep taking notes to the maximum.