From beautifuly fruity to bland and boring in 48hrs.

[Barrelagedvinyl]

I recently brewed a NEIPA that seems to be taking a turn for the worst. The brew day went perfectly, fermentation was healthy and well temp controlled. Transfer to the keg went well with minimal oxygen exposure. An early undercarbed sample was slick, pillowy and tropical. I had really high hopes for it. 3 days later, it's bland and boring with an odd bitterness akin to aspirin. The smell is fairly on point, but not as pungent. The slick, soft mouth feel also seems to be gone.

Recipe: An attempt at a clone of Relax by Offshoot brewing

Water profile: Ca:50, Mg:14, SO4:55, Na:18, Cl:112

Mashed at 151*f for 60m
* 69% Mecca grade Lamonta
* 16.3% Flaked oats
* 8.2% carafoam
* 6.1% Table sugar
* 1tsp Yeast nutrient
* I bitterered with 6g ea Amarillo, Centennial, Citra & Simcoe to about 30 ibu ( looking back, there was no real reason for this. i'm not sure why i thought it was a good idea at the time)
* 1oz ea Amarillo, Centennial, Citra & Simcoe in the whirlpool at 170F for about 30 min
* 20g ea of the same above for dry hop day 2 of fermentation/ High Krausen
* 35g Amarillo & Citra and 15g ea Centennial & Simcoe :Keg hops

Fermented with an oversized starter of London ale 3. Beer smith called for 250b cells, my starter had to be near 350b.

I fermented at 65*f for 14 days until the Krausen fell and activity was slow, Then slowly increased to 72*f over 2 days for a Diacetyl rest. After that, i tested for Fg, 1.009. I did notice some fine bubbles off of the yeast cake, but thought it was possibly due to the over pitch or the diacetyl rest.

I cold crashed @ 37*f for about 30ish hours and Kegged on the 100g dry hop which is in one of those stainless mesh tubes.
I burst carbed at 35psi for 1 day and lowered to 10psi for the next 2 days.

I don't detect any off flavors i'm familiar with, accept i guess the aspirin like bitterness.

The only thing that comes to mind would be that i didn't cold crash for long enough or that something is up with my beer line. The line has only had one other beer through it, however it did sit for about a month with starsan solution sitting in the line but was re cleaned and sanitized before hooking it up.

Has anyone ever encountered this disappearance of hop flavor like this? or do you see a flaw somewhere in my Recipe/process that could lead to this issue? I Do plan to just let this sit for another week or more and hope it conditions out.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

It sounds to me like oxidation. Oxidation of malt and hops can taste unpleasantly bitter. There're a few places in your process that I can see the potential for oxidation.
1. A 2.5 week ferment. It shouldn't take that long to finish fermenting.
2. Cold crash. How did you stop O2 suckback as the beer shrunk/cooled?
3. Keg purge. Given that you had dry-hops in the keg, I'm assuming you didn't purge using a liquid fill and empty with CO2?
4. Transfer. Did you transfer into the keg liquid tube, or just dump it in through the large lid opening?

I should point out that I don't brew NEIPA's (or any other type of IPA) but I brew a lot of pale lagers, and they are equally sensitive to small amounts of O2. You can brew a lot of great beers with normal methods, including APA's and Blondes, but NEIPA's need a bit of extra effort to become great. Try transferring your beer to keg with a few points of gravity remaining. It only needs to ferment for a few days to a week (at the outside if it's a healthy ferment) before transfer. Fully purge the keg by filling the keg to the brim with starsan solution then pushing the solution out with CO2. Transfer to keg through the liquid out tube, making sure to purge the beer line used for the transfer . Dry hopping is tricky - there are lots of threads discussing some methods for avoiding O2, and I rarely do it so take this FWIW. I'd suggest hooking up CO2 at a low pressure (say, 3psi) and removing the lid with the gas running (you need to pull the PRV while opening the lid), drop the hops in using a bag or basket with a bit of cotton attached to hold the hops about mid-keg, then put the lid back on and purge the headspace a couple of times. The minimal O2 that gets in should be scrubbed by yeast, as they're still active. The ferment will complete in the keg, carbonating the beer. It'll probably be either over or under carbonated (unless you use a spunding valve) which is easy to adjust. You will get more sediment doing it this way, but it clears in a pint or three. It definitely makes a difference in terms of oxidation.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Yeah, could be something else I suppose but really sounds like telltale oxidation(flavors good then fading). How many times did you purge the keg with dry hops in it before transferring in? There are charts that show how many purge cycles it takes to purge an empty keg, and it's a lot. Doing a couple of purges doesn't remove near enough O2. If you don't have a good method of limiting O2 during dry hop post fermentation I'd dry hop during fermentation, around day 2 or 3 when it's active but starting to wind down so the activity can help limit oxidation.

 

[Barrelagedvinyl]

Yeah, could be something else I suppose but really sounds like telltale oxidation(flavors good then fading). How many times did you purge the keg with dry hops in it before transferring in? There are charts that show how many purge cycles it takes to purge an empty keg, and it's a lot. Doing a couple of purges doesn't remove near enough O2. If you don't have a good method of limiting O2 during dry hop post fermentation I'd dry hop during fermentation, around day 2 or 3 when it's active but starting to wind down so the activity can help limit oxidation.

i guess i didn't quite purge enough according to a few of those purge charts (which i didn't know existed before you mentioned it)
. The dry hops were in the keg, i pressurized to about 30 psi once, and then another 5 times but only at about 10-15psi. i suppose that paired with a regular open top transfer was the culprit here.

 

[Barrelagedvinyl]

It sounds to me like oxidation. Oxidation of malt and hops can taste unpleasantly bitter. There're a few places in your process that I can see the potential for oxidation.
1. A 2.5 week ferment. It shouldn't take that long to finish fermenting.
2. Cold crash. How did you stop O2 suckback as the beer shrunk/cooled?
3. Keg purge. Given that you had dry-hops in the keg, I'm assuming you didn't purge using a liquid fill and empty with CO2?
4. Transfer. Did you transfer into the keg liquid tube, or just dump it in through the large lid opening?

1. The ferment did seem a little slow, but i just figured it was the yeast strain and possibly the colder end of it's temp range. i guess ill be sticking with US-05 for the next few IPA's
2. The reason i only cold crashed 30 hours is because i noticed suck back. luckily i replaced the dirty/yeasty starsan in the blow off jar with distilled water to prevent contamination, but that probably isn't fool proof.
3. i did keg purge, but apparently not enough. i did not fill the keg and push it all out either. noted for next time.
4. I did use the liquid tube to fill.

I've always know o2 is the enemy here, but boy does it take a lot to keep it all out. That Spike flex fermenter is looking more and more worth the money.