Found out that sanitization and sterilization are different...

[cfrazier77]

So, after homebrewing for a decade and a half I am still learning.

I have some extra base malt I need to use up before it goes stale. I figured I could make some starter. Normally I make starter by putting DME, yeast nutrient, and water in quart mason jars and putting them in the pressure cooker. I have 1.040 wort ready to go whenever I need it. The pressure cooker makes it pasteurized, sterilized, and it holds for as long as I need it. I figured that if I mash, then boil hard for 10 minutes, the wort would be sterile. If I soak the jars, lids, and rings in buckets of star san and then fill them with boiling wort it should be good to go. I had enough jars for 8.5 gallons, so I made 8.5 gallons.

I was wrong. Everything went well, the lids "popped" and all the jars had a good seal. I boxed them up and put them away. I ran out of boxes so 3 jars were on a shelf. I noticed yesterday that there was some foam on the top of the wort in one on the shelf. Closer inspection, the lid was not sealed anymore and looks like fermentation is happening. It did not smell good. There was a layer of something that looked like snot on the top, and on the bottom. So, drag out the boxes and check other jars..... Out of 8.5 gallons worth, only 1.5 gallons were still sealed and had no visible signs of fermentation.

I dumped 7 gallons, thus noticing the snot on the bottom. The smell in the basement was not good after doing this... I put all the jars, rings, and lids in the dishwasher and pressed the sanitize option. And I put the remaining good jars in the pressure cooker for 20 minutes. I did keep on jar going, the one in the pictures. I figure who knows, it may turn into a wonderful flavor, I doubt it.

So, sanitization is not good enough for preventing ANY fermentation. Next time I will do the same, but will move them all through the pressure cooker before going into storage. Also, I think it is my regular time to tear apart my ball valve on the kettle and give it a good clean.

So who else has a sterilization story?

 

[Shenanigans]

Bummer, at least you had no glass bombs.

 

[cfrazier77]

Bummer, at least you had no glass bombs.

Yes, but that is why I don't leave the rings on when I can things.

 

[mac_1103]

So, sterilization is not good enough for preventing ANY fermentation.

I think you meant to say sanitation here, not sterilization.

 

[cfrazier77]

I think you meant to say sanitation here, not sterilization.

thanks, the coffee apparently had not fully kicked in yet.

 

[mashpaddled]

That whole ten minutes of boiling means sterilization myth has floated around homebrewing for decades. There are molds and other microorganisms that can survive at temperatures above boiling. With wort you're feeding anything that survives a huge food source with no competition, so anything that can ferment will ferment.

I would venture a guess that your point of contamination was not the wort itself but the containers. Starsan is not a sterilizer and not even great as a sanitizer. Starsan is an acid-based sanitizer which has little effect on acid tolerant microorganisms. It's fine for typical beer contaminates like LAB but has very little effect on yeast and many other microorganisms. There's a reason why most food industry sanitation uses alcohol or iodine sanitizers. When acid sanitizers are used, they are typically far more aggressive than starsan.

I use starsan as a sanitizer at home so I'm not anti-starsan, just aware of its limitations. Canned wort should only be pressure cooked in the container, no exceptions.

 

[NSMikeD]

Fwiw oxy is a highly effective sanitizer. The food industry standard is acid based which is non toxic and doesn’t need to be removed from the surface. That may be why it’s so popular in brewing. Oxy on the other hand is popular in the medical world for sanitizing. It also what laundries use to get your shirts so white.

For brewing not only do oxy based cleaners do a great job as a cleaner they are also a great sanitizer (kills 99.9 of bacteria ).

I put a small batch of acid based sanitizer in a spray bottle (either star san or a food service one) for spray sanitizing especially on spigots and any other items I don’t soak, for everything else I use hot water and an oxy product in a bucket and soak.

Now, I am no expert but from what I can tell the difference between sanitizing and sterilizing is 0.1% (100-99.9) of kill rate.

Fwiw dishwasher may not meet commercial requirements for sterilization. Check the manufactures specs on water temp. Other wise they are just as effective as other forms of sanitizing assuming proper technique is employed.

 

[mac_1103]

0.1% might not seem like much, but lots of common surface microbes can come back from a three log kill in about three hours in a rich medium. So mouthwash can make your breath minty fresh but can't KEEP your breath minty fresh.

99.9% is plenty when you're giving one microbe a huge head start but it ain't worth a damn if you want something to keep for days, much less months or years.

 

[marc1]

Bummer, at least you had no glass bombs. muscle paralysis and subsequent suffocation from botulism

fixed it

Wort is a low acid food, regular canning is not good enough to ensure that you won't be packaging up something dangerous.

Glad OP is OK!

 

[youngdh]

That whole ten minutes of boiling means sterilization myth has floated around homebrewing for decades. There are molds and other microorganisms that can survive at temperatures above boiling. With wort you're feeding anything that survives a huge food source with no competition, so anything that can ferment will ferment.

I would venture a guess that your point of contamination was not the wort itself but the containers. Starsan is not a sterilizer and not even great as a sanitizer. Starsan is an acid-based sanitizer which has little effect on acid tolerant microorganisms. It's fine for typical beer contaminates like LAB but has very little effect on yeast and many other microorganisms. There's a reason why most food industry sanitation uses alcohol or iodine sanitizers. When acid sanitizers are used, they are typically far more aggressive than starsan.

I use starsan as a sanitizer at home so I'm not anti-starsan, just aware of its limitations. Canned wort should only be pressure cooked in the container, no exceptions.

Starsan will kill most bacteria but not necessarily yeast. Another misconception is there is no such thing as truly sterile. Bacteria exist in the vacuum of space.

 

[balrog]

Starsan is a great bacteriacide. Iodophor is a better full spectrum sanitizer. Bleach solution also good full spectrum. It is good to occasionally hit your equipment with other sanitizers. Glad OP is still with us. That's not a fun story to live through.

 

[z-bob]

You just didn't process it long enough in the pressure canner. Also because you're at high elevation you need to can at 15 PSI instead of the usual 10 or 11. I would look up recent USDA or Ball or Kerr recommendations for canning beef broth and use the same times.

I tried this a year ago using beer bottles instead of canning jars. Ended up with the same as you because the bottle caps didn't seal well enough. (that's quite the smell isn't it?)