Foam in the pour...and I'm out of ideas

[mongoose33]

I've read about these things before, and I thought I had it knocked. But I don't.

I'm getting lots and lots of foam in pours from my Perlick 650SS flow control faucets. Supposedly flow control would help with that regardless, but it doesn't in my case.

Details: I'm carbonating to about 10-11psi; I have 10 feet of 3/16 beverage line (I would have thought that would have done it). The beer is at 36 degrees.

I'm out of ideas. Everything seems like it should be fine, but I get foam at all levels of flow control, unless I drop it to trickle, which kind of defeats the purpose if I have to wait 5 minutes to draw a beer.

I've enclosed pics; it's the middle faucet that I'm currently working with (the right-hand one does this as well).

Anything I'm missing?

 

[day_trippr]

How was the beer carbonated?

Cheers!

 

[mongoose33]

How was the beer carbonated?

Cheers!

Force carbed, but it's been carbed for a couple of weeks now.

 

[day_trippr]

Ok, but specifics would help: did you do a "shake 'n' bake" carb, a high-pressure "burst-carb", or "set and forget"?

Otherwise...

- do you notice gas pockets building up in the beer lines between pours?
- do you have a fan "stirring" the air inside your keezer?
- are those really 3/16" ID lines? It's probably just the pics but those look thicker than I'd expect...

Cheers!

 

[mongoose33]

Ok, but specifics would help: did you do a "shake 'n' bake" carb, a high-pressure "burst-carb", or "set and forget"?

Otherwise...

- do you notice gas pockets building up in the beer lines between pours?
- do you have a fan "stirring" the air inside your keezer?
- are those really 3/16" ID lines? It's probably just the pics but those look thicker than I'd expect...

Cheers!

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear.

Shake and bake, but I've served with a picnic tap since with little problem.

The lines are truly 3/16. 10 feet.

Haven't noticed bubbles in the lines.

I'm quite sure it's not overcarbed.

 

[day_trippr]

Right. Have you had the same problem with different kegs?

Potential foaming caused by keg:
- missing or damaged O-ring under the Out dip tube flange
- pin hole in the Out dip tube
- partially plugged Out post poppet
- Out post poppet barely opening

If you've had the same foaming issues with different kegs, we can rule most of those out...

Cheers!

 

[mongoose33]

Right. Have you had the same problem with different kegs?

Potential foaming caused by keg:
- missing or damaged O-ring under the Out dip tube flange
- pin hole in the Out dip tube
- partially plugged Out post poppet
- Out post poppet barely opening

If you've had the same foaming issues with different kegs, we can rule most of those out...

Cheers!

Good questions all--I've served from both kegs, with these specific batches of beers, using a picnic tap. No problems there at all. So it's not the kegs that are the issue.

I'm just baffled. When I set this up I'd read the expected threads, which is why I bought 3/16" lines, make sure it's not overcarbonated, use longer lines, and so on. Thought I was being smart by reading about this before I did it.

 

[303Dan]

Good questions all--I've served from both kegs, with these specific batches of beers, using a picnic tap. No problems there at all. So it's not the kegs that are the issue.

I'm just baffled. When I set this up I'd read the expected threads, which is why I bought 3/16" lines, make sure it's not overcarbonated, use longer lines, and so on. Thought I was being smart by reading about this before I did it.

How are you making sure it's not over carbonated?

And you said you haven't noticed any bubbles in the lines, but have you looked really close? Wait a little bit after you pour a beer and then check the entire length of the line. This one has bitten me before.

 

[raouliii]

......Shake and bake, but I've served with a picnic tap since with little problem....The lines are truly 3/16. 10 feet...

Shook for how long and at what pressure? You could be grossly over-carbonated.

Is this a brand new setup? If as you're pouring, there are no bubbles in the beer line then it's likely not QD/poppet/o-ring/keg related. If the CO2 is breaking out of solution at the faucet then not enough friction/back pressure is being produced by the line and faucet to negate the carbonation pressure. Validate the ID of your lines. There could be a problem with the faucets. Brand new? Otherwise, over-carbonation would be my guess.

 

[PlinyTheMiddleAged]

I've enclosed pics; it's the middle faucet that I'm currently working with (the right-hand one does this as well).

Does the left hand faucet pour well? If so, change the serving line from the middle faucet to the left faucet. If it's still all foam, it's not a problem with the faucet - I'd check carb level, poppets, and o-rings. If the pour is better, maybe it's the faucet - disassemble it and see if you can find anything.

Good luck!

 

[mongoose33]

How are you making sure it's not over carbonated?

And you said you haven't noticed any bubbles in the lines, but have you looked really close? Wait a little bit after you pour a beer and then check the entire length of the line. This one has bitten me before.

I think I may have been bitten as well.

I've got two beers in there, and I disconnected the gas line from one and pulled the pressure release valve a few times over a half-hour of time...and then it dispensed as I would have expected. Small head, which is easily increased with just how I pour.

Then I connected the other one, and same deal--foam. But I looked closely at the lines and this is what I saw:



So, I presume that's what you mean by bubbles in the line. I'm going to have to get some sort of pressure gauge to measure this. I'm wondering if a gas-in QD with a barb would let me use a tire pressure gauge to check.

What has confused me is that I was not getting this problem using a 5' picnic tap, which is what I used before I had the keezer done. Same kegs, same everything.

The beer doesn't taste overcarbonated to me, but then again, maybe it would taste better with a lower level.

 

[mongoose33]

Does the left hand faucet pour well? If so, change the serving line from the middle faucet to the left faucet. If it's still all foam, it's not a problem with the faucet - I'd check carb level, poppets, and o-rings. If the pour is better, maybe it's the faucet - disassemble it and see if you can find anything.

Good luck!

A good idea. I'd started with the right faucet, had the problems, then switched to the middle faucet. The keezer is in my garage and I'm not taking it to the basement until I know it works right, which is why all this testing. As you'll see with the above post, perhaps they are overcarbed. Doesn't seem that way to me, but it's not like it'd be the first time in my life I was wrong.

Main problem this morning is drawing beers and trying to decide whether I should drink them or simply pour them down the drain.

 

[303Dan]

I think I may have been bitten as well.

I've got two beers in there, and I disconnected the gas line from one and pulled the pressure release valve a few times over a half-hour of time...and then it dispensed as I would have expected. Small head, which is easily increased with just how I pour.

Then I connected the other one, and same deal--foam. But I looked closely at the lines and this is what I saw:

View attachment 359038

So, I presume that's what you mean by bubbles in the line. I'm going to have to get some sort of pressure gauge to measure this. I'm wondering if a gas-in QD with a barb would let me use a tire pressure gauge to check.

What has confused me is that I was not getting this problem using a 5' picnic tap, which is what I used before I had the keezer done. Same kegs, same everything.

The beer doesn't taste overcarbonated to me, but then again, maybe it would taste better with a lower level.

It won't taste over carbonated because so much co2 is coming out of solution before you drink it. But it sounds like you've found your problem. That's why I set and forget instead of shaking. It's pretty easy to go too far with the shaking and it's a pain to get it back to where it needs to be. But I understand why people do it.

 

[PlinyTheMiddleAged]

The keezer is in my garage and I'm not taking it to the basement until I know it works right, which is why all this testing. As you'll see with the above post, perhaps they are overcarbed. Doesn't seem that way to me, but it's not like it'd be the first time in my life I was wrong.



Main problem this morning is drawing beers and trying to decide whether I should drink them or simply pour them down the drain.

How hot is your garage? Maybe your faucet is getting too warm and causing to CO2 to break out of solution. When you were using picnic taps, I assume you had those tucked inside your keezer? If you pull a beer and get foam, if you immediately pull another (after the first pull cools the faucet), do you get less foam?

My beer fridge is in my garage - first beer is always more foam than the subsequent.

 

[The_Bishop]

I didn't see it in the pictures, but do you have a fan in there to mix the air up? If not you'll have very cold air down at the bottom, and warmer air up top. That can cause breakout, sometimes.

 

[mongoose33]

How hot is your garage? Maybe your faucet is getting too warm and causing to CO2 to break out of solution. When you were using picnic taps, I assume you had those tucked inside your keezer? If you pull a beer and get foam, if you immediately pull another (after the first pull cools the faucet), do you get less foam?

My beer fridge is in my garage - first beer is always more foam than the subsequent.

A good idea--but when I have done that ususally the temps are in the 70s. Not terribly hot, and there's a certain amount of coolness in the taps as the shanks are inside the collar.

You're right in that the picnic tap was inside the fridge.

Even when the faucet was cold and had condensation on it I still was getting foam.

 

[mongoose33]

I didn't see it in the pictures, but do you have a fan in there to mix the air up? If not you'll have very cold air down at the bottom, and warmer air up top. That can cause breakout, sometimes.

No fan, not yet. I will be getting one in there.

I'm going over to a friend's house tonite, will draw a growler and see how that goes. I have the growler filling attachment that fits the Perlicks.

 

[mongoose33]

An update on where I'm at with this.

Overcarbonation was the culprit. All three taps are now doing just fine, and I did, apparently, overcarbonate the beer that was foaming so much.

Now they are all pouring with a small head that I can increase by just moving the glass....as it should be.

Thank you for all the ideas and help.

 

[ViciousFishes]

One thing I recently dealt with was the liquid out dip tube had its flang separate from the dip tube. I'm assuming that as I drew a pint, the lack of connect between dip tube to o-ring to flange under the ball lock disconnect was causing some sort of frothing as the beer exited the keg and entered the beer line. Replacing the dip tube seems to have addressed the problem. Many thanks to Morebeer who sent the new dip tbe gratis, as it'd only been 6 months since the keg was purchased.

 

[fun4stuff]

So if you have bubbles in your beer line it suggest you're over carbonated?

 

[PapaO]

So if you have bubbles in your beer line it suggest you're over carbonated?

Yes and No. If you want beer at 2.5 volumes using this chart http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php The temperature would be 38 at 11 psi. So if your temperature is 38 at 11 psi and you have bubbles in your beer line than yes your beer is over carbonated. If your beer is 2.5 volumes and your temperature is too high or pis to low you have bubbles in your beer line but your beer is not over carbonated.

PapaO