Hop Water/Seltzer - Troubleshooting Carbonation and Dispensing

[cscalesey]

Having some issues getting a proper/well carbed hop water pour. I believe I have it carbed to the correct volume (right around 4) and I'm using an adequate amount of tubing, but something isn't adding up. The pressure is excessive at the beginning of the pour resulting in a burst of foam, followed by clear seltzer but with overwhelming foam in the glass. Here's what I have going on:

Carbonation:
- Hop water chilled to 41°
- Quick Carbed @30psi for 4 days (using quick carb keg lid and beer stone)
- Rest @30psi for 7 days

Setup:
- CMB liquid ball lock (tried Duotight Flow Control at varying lengths of tubing but it always resulted in foam build-up in the line)
- 30ft Evabarrier tubing with 4mm ID
- Pluto Gun (chilled from the interior of kegerator)

Additional:
- Floating dip tube (Clear Beer Draft System)

Because of the over-foamy pour, I'm left to believe too much CO2 is coming out of solution and leaving the liquid a bit flat. It's still lacking some acidic bite and bubbly mouthfeel. Some possible culprits could be:

- Tubing ID needs to be wider than 4mm
- The build of the Pluto Gun is causing some sort of CO2 tension that is causing the onset of a pour to burst foam.
- Collecting liquid at the top of the keg with a floating dip tube is causing CO2 to come out of suspension more easily resulting in foamy pours.

I'm stumped!

 

[day_trippr]

Before I forget to ask, what kind of keg are you using?
Also, to get an idea of pour velocity, how quickly could you fill a pint glass?

You are absolutely correct that when a pour foams the beverage is dumping carbonation and will be proportionally flattened.

Checking your 30 psi at 41°F against our favorite carbonation table shows that is a solid combination for 4 volumes of CO2.

Going after the line diameter v length, the only line length calculator worth using suggests your 4mm line doesn't need to be so long. Feeding this calculator with a 0.15748" diameter (for 4mm), 30 psi and a specific gravity of 1.003 (a minor influence, fwiw) and keeping the rest of the settings at their respective defaults shows the line length could be as short as 11.36 feet.

In my experience, having somewhat longer lines than Mike's calculator suggests has a fairly small impact on pour quality - much less than going shorter than suggested - but my experience in that regard might add just a few feet to the suggested length. I've never dispensed anything through a 30 foot line.

Anyway, are there gas pockets in the line prior to dispensing the first pour of the day?
And if you pour two glasses back to back is the second pour substantially "better" than the first?

Lastly, I have never used a floating dip tube but I can imagine if the pickup isn't fully submerged problems are going to happen. That said I would expect spitting at the faucet when CO2 from the head space tries to shoot through the exposed pickup, and as you didn't mention that kind of behavior I'm going to assume it's working properly. But if you ever get that "spitting" thing, that's the first place to look, with the second being a missing or damaged small O-ring under the Out dip tube flange - either the original dip tube or the shorty used with the floater...

Cheers!

 

[cscalesey]

Thank you for your reply @day_trippr!

I jumped the gun by posting my experience before letting the keg settle. I did not move the keg from its location so I assumed it would be stable. What caused a riff was testing the effects of the flow control ball lock on 30 feet of line by swapping back and forth between it and a standard one.

I previously tried flow control with a shorter line which resulted in extreme foaming in the line. Just for the hell of it, I tried it on the 30-foot line and I got the same results. Guessing the high pressure/carbonation and lack of viscosity resistance results in uncontrollable line foaming when restricting flow. I do not get this result when testing my kegged beers (both low and high abv) with a floating dip tube, flow control ball lock, 4 feet of line, and a Pluto Gun at 12psi.

Your comment about line length is very helpful. At 30 feet, a full pint takes about 8-9 seconds to pour. Foaming has subsided resulting in proper carbonation and a nice acidic bite. Gonna take about 10 feet off and see where we land with pour time.

Thanks again!

 

[JAReeves]

FWIW, some people have mentioned putting a SS washer or nut on the floating dip tube to make sure it's submerged.

 

[cscalesey]

FWIW, some people have mentioned putting a SS washer or nut on the floating dip tube to make sure it's submerged.

Thanks for the tip, but the clear beer draft system doesn’t have submerging issue like other floating dip tubes. It’s built a bit different.

 

[JAReeves]

Thanks for the tip, but the clear beer draft system doesn’t have submerging issue like other floating dip tubes. It’s built a bit different.

I have one of those and several of the basic float models. The difference in price was way more than a SS nut and a wine filter.

 

[danno6102]

Thank you for your reply @day_trippr!

I jumped the gun by posting my experience before letting the keg settle. I did not move the keg from its location so I assumed it would be stable. What caused a riff was testing the effects of the flow control ball lock on 30 feet of line by swapping back and forth between it and a standard one.

I previously tried flow control with a shorter line which resulted in extreme foaming in the line. Just for the hell of it, I tried it on the 30-foot line and I got the same results. Guessing the high pressure/carbonation and lack of viscosity resistance results in uncontrollable line foaming when restricting flow. I do not get this result when testing my kegged beers (both low and high abv) with a floating dip tube, flow control ball lock, 4 feet of line, and a Pluto Gun at 12psi.

Your comment about line length is very helpful. At 30 feet, a full pint takes about 8-9 seconds to pour. Foaming has subsided resulting in proper carbonation and a nice acidic bite. Gonna take about 10 feet off and see where we land with pour time.

Thanks again!

I'm working through foaming issues with my hop water as well. Any update on the different line length?

I carbonated at 45 degree at ~28 psi (tank reg only goes to 30). Serving at 28psi with ~11 feet of 4mm Evabarrier per Mike Soltys calculator & I'm getting a ton of foam & flat hop water. Standard dip tube & standard ball lock QD in my case.