First timer questions and anxieties

[Nick Z]

Greetings! I was so pleased to find this forum. Whoever created this resource has my eternal gratitude.

I got a wild hair after visiting some of the orchards in Hood River, Oregon. I had never seen cider apples before and thought they had an interesting taste. Originally I was going to make applesauce out of them as I thought the sauce would have a unique flavor. Then I did some reading and learned that the cooking process would probably destroy those interesting flavors.

I make a lot of applesauce and jam and do home canning. I thought trying to make hard cider might be interesting so I got the Brooklyn Brew Shop kit and some other supplies off of Amazon and found the Making Hard Cider site by Jessica Shabatura.

After sanitizing everything to the best of my ability with sanitizer and boiling I finally dumped my apple juice into the gallon jugs.

I have two batches:

One is from cider apples I squeezed the juice from. Not having a press I just pureed them in the food processor and squeezed the juice out through cheese cloth. I got about three and a half quarts so I had to resort to squeezing some sweet apples (a variety named Sonata to be precise) to top it off. I put in a crushed campden tablet and the juice yesterday. I will put in the yeast in a day or two.

The second batch is from fresh pressed, unpasteurized cider from a place called Draper Girls.

I just sanitized everything, put in the tablet, and dumped in their juice. Their juice is a blend of whatever apples they had on hand so I doubt there will be cider apples in it. That's fine.

As you can imagine I am mildly terrified I am going to screw this up and waste a ton of expensive ingredients and work.

I have many concerns, of course. But at the moment the thing giving me the creeps is the level of apple juice in the jugs.

In the jug I squeezed the juice for myself the jug is pretty full. The juice comes up to the neck of the bottle and leaves maybe an inch or two air. I assume this is full enough?

However, with the purchased juice the juice level doesn't even come up to the neck. There is a substantial amount of air in there. Draper Girls didn't short sheet me. The gallon jug I got was full to the brim. But apparently the glass jugs hold more than a gallon.

The question is: How much air space is ok? None? A little? I will be putting the airlock on there in a couple of days and I assume this air space will fill with carbon dioxide once the ferment begins. But I also know that oxygen tends to react with fresh fruit and wreck it.

Do I need to fill up one or both of the jugs? I am reluctant to add more juice to the first jug because the campden tablet has already been in there for a day. If I add more juice I am concerned it won't be sterilized. I could, of course, add some pasteurized juice from the store (yes, I know it can't have sodium benzoate or potassium sorbate in it) to either of the jugs.

To get more of my own juice I could just squeeze some Sonata apples to get fresh juice. But.... I also have some bartlett pears in my fridge. I could puree and squeeze the juice out of them and add some. I don't know if this is a good idea or not. It sounds cool but just because something sounds neat doesn't mean it's wise.

I figure if I am going to top up the second, less full jug I had better do it soon before the campden tablet gasses everything off in a day or two and I accidentally introduce undesired microorganisms in the juice. I don't know if I can re-dose with campden or whether that concentration of sulfites to a gallon of juice is too much.

On a secondary note... is it possible to make cherry cider? I have a quart of pressed cherry juice from Draper Girls. And I could generate more of my own by purchasing frozen black cherries and juicing them. It would take quite a few but I bet I could get another quart of two of juice at a reasonable cost. Alternatively I also have some store bought, pasteurized black cherry juice.

I haven't seen much on people making hard cider out of anything else but apples. But I am curious as to whether it would be worth trying this with pears, cherries, quince, or even raspberries.

Thank you in advance!

 

[RPh_Guy]

After sanitizing everything to the best of my ability with sanitizer and boiling I finally dumped my apple juice into the gallon jugs.

What did you boil?

As you can imagine I am mildly terrified I am going to screw this up and waste a ton of expensive ingredients and work.

Just enjoy the process
Was it that expensive? Juice typically ranges from $4-10/gal.

In the jug I squeezed the juice for myself the jug is pretty full. The juice comes up to the neck of the bottle and leaves maybe an inch or two air. I assume this is full enough?

You should affix a "blow off tube" = a drilled stopper with tubing running into a container of sanitizer.

If I add more juice I am concerned it won't be sterilized.

Campden (sulfite) does not generally sterilize, there will likely still be wild microbes.

I could puree and squeeze the juice out of them

When pressing apples/pears it's best not to puree; they should either be frozen and thawed or just crushed. You can make a basic press for cheap out of a couple buckets of you want.

is it possible to make cherry cider?

Yeah you can make wine from just cherries or you can add it to apple juice.

You can ferment straight pear juice; it's called Perry. It you can blend it with apple or whatever else. Same goes for other fruit. Just beware of adding too much acidity, depending on your taste.

Hope I covered all your questions.
Welcome to HBT!

 

[Nick Z]

• Thank you for the kind and swift reply.

My chief concern is still that the second jug isn't full. It isn't to the point where I add the yeast. It is still in the "sulfiting" stage. Is the large amount of air space going to cause issues at any point, before or after addition of the yeast?

 

[z-bob]

I think the sulfites will protect the juice until the yeast can start chowing-down, then the CO2 generated will fill the air space. But if you're worried about it, you can top-off the jugs with cheap bottled apple juice (like Mott's or TreeTop) It has no character at all, good or bad, and won't really dilute your good juice that much. I ferment the stuff by itself all the time; I like it.

Be careful of unpasteurized juice from orchards, it often contains sodium benzoate or potassium sorbate, and only says so in tiny print on the back label. Vitamin C added or ascorbic acid is okay; that's added to most cheap pasteurized juice.

 

[Nick Z]

This stuff had nothing in it but juice. It's on the label and I spoke to the people that own the place and made it. In fact they kept it frozen to keep it good.

I think I will top the second jug off with some crumby apple juice.

I have two yeasts. I got something called SafCider and the kit came with some Red Star wine yeast. Are these vigorous enough to take over and outcompete any wild microbes that might still be alive? Or does that apply to all cultivated yeast strains?

 

[z-bob]

I have never used SafCider. I have used a few different wine and beer yeasts; I think Red Star Cote des Blancs is my favorite. A few wine yeasts (like K1-V1116 and most champagne yeasts) will actively kill competing yeasts. A healthy pitch of any domesticated yeast should out-compete any wild bugs that are left whether it's a killer strain or not, especially after you sulfited the juice.

You're worrying too much

 

[Nick Z]

Yes, I probably am. I appreciate the affirmation.
From a psychological standpoint I want to follow the "rules" to the degree practical until I've had a success or two under my belt. Same as when I started gardening and canning.

One of the things I like about this apple cider thing is that once I have the equipment it sounds cheap and easy to try again. Just snag some apple juice and put in the correct ingredients and let it run. Beer and wine sound like they require more gear and harder to find ingredients. Also, I have a friend who has celiac disease and as a result she largely drinks cider. I like the idea of making cider for her and her boyfriend.

Lastly... I have tons of frozen fruit puree that I collected over the summer. For making jams, jellies, and syrups. I can easily extract juice from those and have a variety of fruit flavors I can add to apple juice.

I am curious as to why pureeing apples via the food processor to get the juice is discouraged. That ship has sailed but I would like to know what sort of negative effects to expect from getting my juice that way.

Thank you

 

[z-bob]

I am curious as to why pureeing apples via the food processor to get the juice is discouraged. That ship has sailed but I would like to know what sort of negative effects to expect from getting my juice that way.

I don't know. Poor extraction (yield)? Cloudiness that takes forever to clear?

Also, I have a friend who has celiac disease and as a result she largely drinks cider. I like the idea of making cider for her and her boyfriend.

Most of my friends that I've given cider to didn't really like it. I probably make it too dry for them, and it wasn't beer. My celiac disease friend loved it.

 

[Nick Z]

The yield of juice wasn't great but investing in a press for something I may only do once. It was probably dumb to start this project in the first place. I was considering juicing the rest of the Sonata apples and freezing it for later but now I'm not so sure. I have to figure something out for these apples within a couple of weeks.

I am deeply concerned about my cider being too dry and how to sweeten it without causing the yeast to explode or putting in something that tastes like nutrasweet.

Carbonation is the other thing I am not sure how to accomplish. But I guess I won't need to worry about for at least a couple of weeks.

 

[z-bob]

Let it ferment completely dry and drop clear. Then bottle it like beer, priming it with sugar.

If it's too dry, sweeten it at serving time; make some simple syrup; either just plain sugar syrup or with frozen concentrated apple juice. It just takes a little bit of sweet to bring the apple-y taste back; less that a teaspoon of sugar in a 12 oz glass will do it without making it sweet. One thing I like about Cote des Blancs yeast is it doesn't seem to ferment quite so dry.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Is the large amount of air space going to cause issues at any point, before or after addition of the yeast?

No.

Are these vigorous enough to take over and outcompete any wild microbes that might still be alive?

Yes, especially since you sulfited.

Be careful of unpasteurized juice from orchards, it often contains sodium benzoate or potassium sorbate

?? I don't think I've ever seen unpasteurized juice with preservatives. It wouldn't even work because there's so much yeast in unpasteurized juice.

I am curious as to why pureeing apples via the food processor to get the juice is discouraged. That ship has sailed but I would like to know what sort of negative effects to expect from getting my juice that way.

Pressing the normal way probably gives increased yield, less solids/pectin, less acid from the skin, and less harsh compounds (and cyanide) from the seeds.

I am deeply concerned about my cider being too dry and how to sweeten it without causing the yeast to explode or putting in something that tastes like nutrasweet.

I prefer dry cider.

Carbonation is the other thing I am not sure how to accomplish. But I guess I won't need to worry about for at least a couple of weeks.

Dry sparkling cider is very ready to make. Just add priming sugar when bottling.

Cheers

 

[z-bob]

?? I don't think I've ever seen unpasteurized juice with preservatives. It wouldn't even work because there's so much yeast in unpasteurized juice.

Perhaps I misspoke about "unpasteurized" (but I don't think so.) Let me rephrase it: I have never seen fresh juice sold in gallon jugs like milk that didn't contain preservatives, even when it said "100% apple juice". That includes juice pressed and sold by local apple orchards. 100% just means more than 99.5%.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Take a look next time. If it has preservatives I guarantee it's pasteurized.

 

[MarkKF]

I’ve used Safcider. It’s a good yeast. Behaves much like Brewers Best Ciderhouse Select.

You can add good cherry juice to the final product or get some good cherry pie filling (just fruit & sugar) and add to the ferment.

 

[Nick Z]

Sorry I didn't reply yesterday. I hit the maximum post count of five. Presumably that is an anti spam measure. Is that only for new accounts or does it get relaxed over time?

Thank you for the excellent feedback.

There is an excellent chance I am being a nimrod here but.... I am reluctant to use any kind of juice concentrate. The reason being that when I have tasted fruit juice from concentrate or not from concentrate I have always preferred the not from concentrate. Whatever process is used to create juice concentrates seems to murder flavors.

I tasted this most strongly in pomegranate juice but have noticed it in apple, orange, grape, etc.

But what applies to fresh/bottled juice may not apply to fermented products.

Even so I have shyed away from concentrates. Wouldn't concentrates deaden the flavor?

I myself prefer tart flavors so a dry cider might do well for me. But it may cause friends and family to blanch.

I did not peel the cider apples I put in the food processor but I did core them and remove the seeds. Seeds often have bitter compounds I didn't want. I had to chop the apples into smaller pieces anyways for the food processor to be able to handle them.

I just added the yeast to the first jug. I had a hell of a time measuring one gram out. I have a small scale but even it had trouble with it. And what it weighed out as one gram seemed like it too more than a fifth of the yeast packet. I used the SafCider on this jug. The one with juice I got from, mostly, cider apples.

Edit: I am just going to leave the first two batches as all apples. But I am curious to try mixing in some other fruits to see what kind of taste I can get. I picked a bunch of fruit over the summer and froze it, primarily in puree form, for making jam. I have concord grape, apple, pear, huckleberry, marionberry, boysenberry, two kinds of blackberries, Oregon grape, strawberry, raspberry, salal, blueberry, cranberry, and a little black currant.

 

[MarkKF]

If you add juice vs. concentrate you have to add a lot more juice to get the same amount of flavor. In the ferment that’s fine but after fermentation it lowers the alcohol %. Unless fermentation restarts. Sometimes concentrates lack sugar which might have a strange flavor. When I added elderberry concentrate I had to also add sugar.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Wouldn't concentrates deaden the flavor?

No, not necessarily.

I had a hell of a time measuring one gram out.

You can get a precise scale for not too much money.
I use this and recommend it:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07PHLL1LG
Basic lab equipment like beakers and scoopulas help too:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00BLS7FNK

If you added more than a gram of yeast it's fine.

Cheers

 

[Nick Z]

Thanks for the responses. Hopefully I see some yeast activity within a few days. I intend to add the yeast that came with the Brooklyn Brew House cider kit to the second jug today.

According to a web calculator 1 gram is slightly less than 1/4 teaspoon. I may just measure out a 1/4 teaspoon of the yeast and dump it in. Unless that is a bad idea. The kit came with 10 grams (I think) of yeast. At one gram per gallon of juice I don't think I'm going to run out anytime soon and I can always get more.

I think I am also going to try making pear cider, but in a 1.5 liter bottle instead. I can get a bottle of (somewhat expensive) pear juice here or I could juice some bartlett pears I have lying around.

Something else I have that I was thinking of adding is quince. I have a bunch of fresh quince. I was going to cook and puree most of them and freeze the puree. Turn some into a concoction I have never made called membrillo. Freeze some whole chunks for tossing into apple pies later.

But perhaps I could toss some quince in with the pear juice. I'm not sure if it's possible to juice raw quince. They are hard as rocks and seem incredibly fibrous and dry. On the other hand quince are 84% water so there has to be a way to extract that juice. Quince is almost always prepared by boiling it in water. I could poach some quince and squeeze out the resulting liquid. Or I was thinking I could bake them to try and soften them up. Or put them in the freezer for a couple of days and yank them out. The resulting ice crystals should physically break down their cells.

I was under the impression that it is generally preferred to get juice out of fruit without using heat. But quince may be an exception. I also have some pectic enzyme on hand and I have read that can be used to extract juice from uncooperative fruits. I don't know what the dosage would be because quince has an enormous amount of natural pectin.

As far as sweetening the cider later... (I think the experience people call it "back sweetening". I don't wish to use the terminology lest I sound like a poser).

I don't want to use lactose because I have a friend I wish to serve it to who has lactose intolerance. And another who is a vegan and who will probably balk at lactose. From doing some reading on these forums it sounds like xylitol may cause indigestion.

I have generally detested the flavor of artificial sweeteners like splenda. But perhaps some, like stevia, aren't that bad.

I guess, when the times comes, I could get a forced carbonation rig. Depending on cost and ease of use. I, myself, am not opposed to a still cider but I suspect friends will think there is something wrong with it if it doesn't have bubbles and fizz.

A simpler, if riskier method might be to toss in some sugar and then keep the bottles in the fridge and check them periodically to allow excess gas to escape.

I did order some potassium sorbate. My understanding is that I can use campden plus the potassium sorbate to knock out the yeast and prevent further fermentation. And at that juncture I could then add regular sugar without further fermentation.

I apologize for the many questions and comments. This whole process is rather fascinating. Such a paradigm shift from jam making and canning. Where acid and pectin are your friends and yeast is the enemy. Though I learned the hard way that cooking fruit can destroy flavors.

I was thinking of combining the two disciplines and mixing some of my own hard cider into jams and applesauce. Considering that canning involves boiling your mixture for at least ten minutes I'm pretty sure that would pasteurize the cider and kill any remaining yeast.

 

[z-bob]

When fermenting gallon batches, I use a half a packet of yeast. It's easier than trying to measure it and there's no danger of not pitching enough; especially the second or third time you use a packet and you didn't store it as well as you thought you did. Overpitching is not a problem.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Thanks for the responses. Hopefully I see some yeast activity within a few days. I intend to add the yeast that came with the Brooklyn Brew House cider kit to the second jug today.

According to a web calculator 1 gram is slightly less than 1/4 teaspoon. I may just measure out a 1/4 teaspoon of the yeast and dump it in. Unless that is a bad idea. The kit came with 10 grams (I think) of yeast. At one gram per gallon of juice I don't think I'm going to run out anytime soon and I can always get more.

I think I am also going to try making pear cider, but in a 1.5 liter bottle instead. I can get a bottle of (somewhat expensive) pear juice here or I could juice some bartlett pears I have lying around.

Something else I have that I was thinking of adding is quince. I have a bunch of fresh quince. I was going to cook and puree most of them and freeze the puree. Turn some into a concoction I have never made called membrillo. Freeze some whole chunks for tossing into apple pies later.

But perhaps I could toss some quince in with the pear juice. I'm not sure if it's possible to juice raw quince. They are hard as rocks and seem incredibly fibrous and dry. On the other hand quince are 84% water so there has to be a way to extract that juice. Quince is almost always prepared by boiling it in water. I could poach some quince and squeeze out the resulting liquid. Or I was thinking I could bake them to try and soften them up. Or put them in the freezer for a couple of days and yank them out. The resulting ice crystals should physically break down their cells.

I was under the impression that it is generally preferred to get juice out of fruit without using heat. But quince may be an exception. I also have some pectic enzyme on hand and I have read that can be used to extract juice from uncooperative fruits. I don't know what the dosage would be because quince has an enormous amount of natural pectin.

As far as sweetening the cider later... (I think the experience people call it "back sweetening". I don't wish to use the terminology lest I sound like a poser).

I don't want to use lactose because I have a friend I wish to serve it to who has lactose intolerance. And another who is a vegan and who will probably balk at lactose. From doing some reading on these forums it sounds like xylitol may cause indigestion.

I have generally detested the flavor of artificial sweeteners like splenda. But perhaps some, like stevia, aren't that bad.

I guess, when the times comes, I could get a forced carbonation rig. Depending on cost and ease of use. I, myself, am not opposed to a still cider but I suspect friends will think there is something wrong with it if it doesn't have bubbles and fizz.

A simpler, if riskier method might be to toss in some sugar and then keep the bottles in the fridge and check them periodically to allow excess gas to escape.

I did order some potassium sorbate. My understanding is that I can use campden plus the potassium sorbate to knock out the yeast and prevent further fermentation. And at that juncture I could then add regular sugar without further fermentation.

I apologize for the many questions and comments. This whole process is rather fascinating. Such a paradigm shift from jam making and canning. Where acid and pectin are your friends and yeast is the enemy. Though I learned the hard way that cooking fruit can destroy flavors.

I was thinking of combining the two disciplines and mixing some of my own hard cider into jams and applesauce. Considering that canning involves boiling your mixture for at least ten minutes I'm pretty sure that would pasteurize the cider and kill any remaining yeast.

That all sounds fine.

Be aware that pectinase significantly increases methanol concentration.

 

[Nick Z]

Oh dear. How significantly? Don't wineries and most commercial juicing operations use it on their fruit to get more juice?

 

[Nick Z]

I added the yeast (I think it is Red Star champagne yeast) to the second jug. Soaked everything in sanitizer, dropped in the yeast, and shook it up. Then attached the lid and hose and stuck the other end of the hose in a mason jar filled with sanitizer.

I am already seeing some signs of activity in the first jug (that one has SafCider yeast in it). I see a brown film around the rim of the bottle on top of the apple juice. And I see teeny little bubbles coming from that film. From what I recall from proofing baking yeast it looks like the yeast is multiplying and hanging out at the top of the juice. I take the bubbles as a good sign. Though I am not seeing any activity in the airlock. I don't expect to see much action for at least a few days.

 

[RPh_Guy]

How significantly?

Probably not enough to make you sick.

Still, I personally would rather drink hazy cider.

 

[Maylar]

Oh dear. How significantly? Don't wineries and most commercial juicing operations use it on their fruit to get more juice?

I've used it in every batch of cider I've ever made.

 

[Nick Z]

I assume what RPh_Guy is referring to is my use of the enzyme in extracting more juice from fresh or frozen fruit. I don't know how much pectic enzyme would be used on the fruit pulp to get out the juice. Which is why I asked about the dosing. I put a small amount in the already prepared juice to clear it up. I'm not too worried about that, since it seems many, many people do that.

But he may very well have a point about using it during juice extraction. Especially if the amounts needed are high.

But I guess my point was that if commercial juices and wine grape juice are produced using this enzyme then wouldn't it be present in pretty much any juice that isn't produced by the cider maker from their own fresh apples? Granted, the guys at Knudsen are probably not assuming that their customers will use that juice in fermenting. But the wineries are fermenting their juice. So wouldn't we be stuck with it in just about any manufactured juice?

I know a little bit about methanol for working with denatured alcohol as a solvent for shellac (used in wood finishing) and it is nasty stuff. Very toxic.

I can live without using it when I squeeze the juice from apples and pears. But pectic enzyme might be very useful in extracting the juice from quince. Quince is 84% water but getting the juice out of it is not something I have ever been able to achieve.

 

[z-bob]

Methanol is mostly a problem if you're distilling and don't know what you're doing (throw away the "heads", or first part of the distillate) because distillation concentrates it. Your body can handle tiny amounts of methanol, just like it does traces of cyanide. But when I make wine from old jelly, I don't add pectic enzyme (because I don't want the methanol whether it's dangerous or not) until after it's mostly fermented and been racked once because a lot of the pectin settles out in the lees. Wineries do use it; grapes don't have much pectin.

I wonder if a juicer could extract the juice from quince? You might have to cut it up and boil it then squeeze it thru a jelly bag, like you do to make jelly

 

[Maylar]

There are some quince in the batch of cider I'm making now. I think the cider mill just grinds and presses them with the apples.

 

[Nick Z]

Updates:

The airlock in the first jug of juice is bubbling, so I think it's working. The second jug went nuts. I used the blow out tube on that and it's a good thing I did because the yeast gunk pushed out from the bottle and into the tube. The other end of the tube is in a mason jar filled with sanitizer. I'm kind of amazed because I only put the yeast in the second jug yesterday. Perhaps I overdid the amount of yeast.

I bought about twenty five pounds of pears yesterday (they were dirt cheap) and have been juicing them and.... it's not working. I was able to wring the apple pulp dry in cheesecloth. Not so with the pears. I can feel the juice in them but no matter how hard I squeeze I am getting almost no juice. The flesh does not want to give it up.

After doing a little reading I am going to use the pectinase. I've read that commercial pear cider operations always use pectic enzyme for juice extraction. And an article in Wine Maker magazine/website suggested using it.

Otherwise this is just too wasteful a process to justify the time, effort, and resources it is taking.

The only other way I can think of to get them to give up their juice is to boil them. And I'm pretty sure that will wreck the flavor of the pears.

I'm going to see if I can pull some academic papers on the relationship between methanol and pectinase. And whether the levels of methanol produced by the use of pectinase are actually dangerous to health.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I bought about twenty five pounds of pears yesterday (they were dirt cheap) and have been juicing them and.... it's not working. I was able to wring the apple pulp dry in cheesecloth. Not so with the pears. I can feel the juice in them but no matter how hard I squeeze I am getting almost no juice. The flesh does not want to give it up.

That's why it shouldn't be pureed.

I'm going to see if I can pull some academic papers on the relationship between methanol and pectinase.

These articles are behind a paywall:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1359511311002352
http://en.cnki.com.cn/Article_en/CJFDTotal-NJKJ200808018.htm
It is clear that pectinase does increase methanol.

On the other hand, this article makes the case that methanol levels in wine are safe regardless of pectinase usage and regardless of whether the levels are above regulatory standards.
https://www.bio-conferences.org/articles/bioconf/pdf/2017/02/bioconf-oiv2017_02028.pdf
I agree overall with their findings even though there aren't any clinical trials testing safety.

So like I said, it's generally considered safe, so it's just a matter of personal preference if you want lower levels of methanol vs more clear cider.

 

[Nick Z]

Thank you. I'll take a look at those. I wasn't doubting that pectinase increases methanol production. I actually did check that out (no offense) and I found at least one study that showed that it most certainly did.

And I get that methanol is bad news. It's quite toxic which is why it is added to denatured alcohol (which is just a way of avoiding liquor taxes for industrial alcohol).

But it's a matter of levels and exposure. Same thing with most pesticides. Whether it is injurious to health is dependent on dosage and frequency of exposure.

I did add some pectinase to the pulp. I read that I have to wait several hours for it to release the juice but it's been a few hours and I'm not seeing much change.

I doubt I will bother to juice my own pears again unless I somehow run across cider pears.

An interesting wrinkle though: My father just walked into the house with a juicer. Bless him. I ran some pears through it.

It was much faster than my cheesecloth squeezing. Though it leaves a lot of pulp in the juice (which may be by design). I've had to filter the juice through some strainers to get the pulp out. So I may switch to that. I'm not sure it's necessarily much quicker than cheesecloth. Since I have to run it through a stainer. But it's less messy and irritating.

But I did run some raw quince through it. Not much juice came out but a little did. I think it mixed with the pear juice that was in there. The quince juice didn't taste very good. It was like coating my mouth with cotton balls.

But I wonder if I should add some to the pear juice. I was led to believe that tannins are good for cider.

And if I have enough quince I might even be able to juice a liter of it and try fermenting straight quince juice (probably with some sugar added because I don't know if quince has enough natural sugars to feed yeast). I doubt it would taste very good but it might be very interesting. Weird, certainly.

Has anyone fermented with quince before?

So far I've been adding it to applesauce and pear sauce. I've been freezing chunks and bags of puree for later use. I also tossed a few quince, whole, in the freezer. I will pull them out in a couple of days and see if they break down and release their juices.

 

[Nick Z]

The SafCider and champagne yeast jugs are fermenting nicely. I have an almost continuous stream of bubbles from both.

I was wondering if that wasn't a good thing though. I thought I had read on the forums that SafCider is supposed to ferment more slowly.

Should I move that batch to a colder location to slow it down? I am perhaps more protective of that batch because it is the only cider apple juice I will get this year

 

[z-bob]

With the pears, since you already pureed them I think I would add yeast and pectinase to the puree and see what happens. You'll have to squeeze it at some point to get all the goodness out, but I think you will extract more after a few days of fermentation.

 

[Nick Z]

I did try adding pectinase to the pear pulp. It didn't seem to make much difference. I may try again tomorrow. I have a bunch of pears I can still juice. Some will get canned aa brandied pears.

Should I move the first jug of apple cider to a colder location?

 

[madscientist451]

Pears are a PITA to get the juice out of. Last year I froze them and after a few weeks took them out and let them thaw out and put them whole in the press and it worked pretty good. This year, I just mixed them in with the apples and pressed everything together so I have no way of knowing what the yield was.
Your cider will improve with some aging, so you have to consider what size your aging container will be before you start, because you want to fill it up as much as possible. If I'm running a small batch, like 2 gallons, I'll start with about 2 1/3 gallons of juice in a 3 gallon carboy. After primary is done I can then siphon off the cider to 1 gallon or 1/2 gallon jugs.
I'll siphon the last little bit into a bottle, let it settle and then drink it if its Ok. Sometimes if I have more juice ready, I'll just dump it in the carboy I just used and re-use the yeast that's in there. In that case I don't try to get all the cider out of the bottom.
Building up a collection of carboys, jugs and bottles will make your cider making go more smoothly. A 3 gallon plastic carboy is about $20.Iif you see used brewing stuff on craigslist, avoid buying used plastic fermenters, but used glass carboys or jugs are fine.
Cider can be easy and simple or you can make it more complicated if you want to.

 

[z-bob]

A 3 gallon plastic carboy is about $20

And a 4 gallon lightweight plastic carboy, with four gallons of "spring water" is about $6. I get them at Menard's. I bought one at a Sam's Club in Houston for $4.50, but the local Sam's doesn't sell them.

 

[Nick Z]

I currently have six 1 gallon glass jugs. I was under the impression that plastic was bad to use because it imparts off flavors. That's probably hooey since I have seen people on here using plastic all the time.

At the moment I only want to do things in one gallon batches. I may even do some half gallon batches. Partly because I don't drink all that much and I don't know many people who will want to try home made cider (or any cider). I also want to experiment and I'd rather experiment with one gallon batches than five gallon ones.

The pears are an awful pain to juice and I probably won't do it again unless I somehow find genuine cider pears. I don't even know if anyone in my state grows them. I just lucked out and found the cider apples at Kiyokawa Orchards in Hood River, Oregon. Next year I will probably stock up on those. Even if I felt like driving all the way out there again I don't even know if they have any left at this point. They had several varieties of cider apples including: ellis bitter, kingston black, ashmead's kernel, and others I can't recall.

I may get some one or two gallon brewing buckets so I can more easily access the mixture. I also want to try adding some fruit puree tied in cheesecloth bags to see what kind of flavors I get. Specifically I want to try salal berry. It's a wild berry native to my area and I want to try adding some. I have some puree of it in my freezer.

I also want to try different yeasts and see what results I get. I'm also thinking of using resulting cider as an ingredient in jams, jellies, or syrups.

I am going to have to get a hydrometer at some point.

How long should I be aging my ciders? I will admit I am not a patient man but if it takes months for it the cider to become good I can wait. I don't want to proudly serve up ick to my friends.

 

[z-bob]

Plastic is fine if you get the right kind of plastic; PET, polyethylene, polypropylene. (maybe a few others) I gotta believe glass is better for longterm bulk storage and aging, but maybe not even that. Gallon and half-gallon glass jugs are nice. Much larger than that they are kinda dangerous if you're not careful. Take a look at the broken carboy thread. ==(8-0

 

[madscientist451]

At the moment I only want to do things in one gallon batches. I may even do some half gallon batches. Partly because I don't drink all that much and I don't know many people who will want to try home made cider (or any cider). I also want to experiment and I'd rather experiment with one gallon batches than five gallon ones.

How long should I be aging my ciders?

One gallon batches are a great idea, except that when you rack the cider off of the yeast and apple solids that accumulate in the bottom of the jug, you'll have about 3+ quarts of cider and about 2" of headspace in the jug you are racking to. When you age the cider, you'll get a white film yeast on your cider, and exposing the cider to air could help turn it to vinegar.
If all you have is 1 gallon jugs, then start with 1.5 gallons of juice and use two jugs for fermentation, when its done, let it settle for a week or so and then rack to a 1 gallon jug.
An auto siphon is really helpful when racking, they cost about $10.

How long to age is hard to determine. If you like the way the cider tastes, go ahead and drink it. Acidic apples can produce a harsh flavor that improves over time. Some cider apples have a strong tannin component that needs to age a while. The traditional method is to put the cider in the barrel in the late fall and start drinking it when you see the apple blossoms on the trees in the spring. I drink some of my ciders young, but my average aging is about 6 months. Some ciders won't get any better with aging, some get worse and some improve a great deal.
If you can get real cider apples, you are way ahead of most other cider hobbyists, all we can get here is regular eating apples or maybe some heirloom cooking apples. How much does that orchard charge for the cider apples?

 

[Nick Z]

Here is the link to their "what's available" page:

https://mthoodfruit.com/our-fruit/whats-available/

They had over a dozen apple varieties when I was there a few weeks ago and quite a number of pear varieties. The majority of the apples (and all of the pears I think) were sweet, eating apples. But there were cider apples in there.

It was about a dollar a pound, I think, for the apples. I considered that quite a fair price, especially considering their selection.

Next year I intend to get quite a few more, earlier in the year.

I do have an issue though:

The tubing I used for the blow off has yeast gunk in it. I tried running it through the dishwasher and that didn't help. I don't have any of the dedicated brewing cleaners like PBW. How do I clean the gunk out of the tubing? This is my only tubing of that size and I don't want to throw it away. Would soaking it in laundry detergent dislodge the ick so I can rinse it clean and then sanitize it?

Clearly I need to find a local brew shop so I can pick up supplies more easily.

 

[Maylar]

Usually just running it under hot water from a faucet is enough. Or use a siphon, syringe, or some other way to force water through it. FWIW I like one-step better than pbw.