First stab at a neipa

[Jtvann]

looking generically at the following

5lbs Golden promise
5lbs 2 row
1lb flaked wheat
1lb flaked oats

Using a total of 15oz of hops, split between galaxy, citra and mosaic.

3oz at 10 mins
3oz at FO
3oz Whirlpool
3oz dry hop #1
3oz dry hop#2

Using 1318 yeast

Obviously leaving a lot of important info out as far as mash temps and others etc etc.

Thoughts?

 

[day_trippr]

I'd hit that

 

[thehaze]

The yeast choice is very good. The amount and variety of hops are also very good. The grain bill looks solid, although I think I personally like a little low colour Crystal/Caramel malt in there.

Regarding the hop schedule: I would move your Flameout hops to whirlpool. Flameout is still boiling temperature, so better to quickly cool down the wort to your favourite temp. and add more hops there for 15-30 minutes or how much you feel confident it will do.

The dry hop also looks solid. Some will say it is not enough...

Mash temp. should be higher than your usual IPA, maybe around 154F.

 

[day_trippr]

Wrt to the kettle hops, he's got zero early additions.
Gonna have to make some IBUs somewhere...

Cheers!

 

[jpakstis]

That looks on point generally speaking. For yeast, I've used US05 and US04 and they've all worked. As for grain bill, I think you could probably just go all 2-Row, 1# flaked wheat, and I usually add 8 ounces of carapils/dextrine (for head retention), and between 12 oz - 1# of C-10, or C-15 if you can find it, to add a bit of the electric orange color. For instance Trillium uses 2-row, white wheat, C-15, and dextrine for their Fort Point Pale Ale. I've had great success (to me) with the following:

80% 2-row
11% white wheat malt
6% (ish) carapils/dextrine
3% (ish) C-15

Those are great hop choices! Galaxy is my favorite. You might not need all three of them, as I have found my taste is for pairing something bright and tropical like galaxy or mosaic with something like centennial or Simcoe to balance bright with something a little earthy. Galaxy, Amarillo, and Citra might get a little duplicative, but then again, maybe not!

As for hop schedule, I was just reading Brad Smith in the latest Brew Your Own talking about maximizing hopping additions and my curiosity is piqued. He recommends no late-boil or flameout additions, since close to 2/3rds of the hop oils from a hop like Amarillo or Citra (myrcene hop oil) will boil out in a 10 minute addition. Myrcene will boil at 160, so even a flameout addition might be too inefficient. I've done it where I add a bittering addition at the beginning of just enough to get to my target IBU (for a NEIPA around 40 IBUs, maybe?). I've used a hop extract mainly for that (to keep from too much kettle and overall trub loss since you're going to be adding a lot of hops!) Then the next addition is a hopstand/whirlpool addition. Then two dry hops, one around 3 days in, for that biotransformation effect, and then another a week later.

But one thing I've been wondering about with that BYO article is do you even need the whirlpool addition? Could you go with just the bittering addition and the dry hops? This isn't specific to your recipe, but just an idea that's banging around my head right now.

 

[chickypad]

I think it looks good too. There's lots of ways to mess with the hop schedule and I do think it's hard prediciting what the perceived bitterness will be with these beers. You could start where you are and adjust from there on future batches if needed.

Edit: also I personally like these with no crystal so grainbill looks good to me as is

 

[day_trippr]

[...]But one thing I've been wondering about with that BYO article is do you even need the whirlpool addition? Could you go with just the bittering addition and the dry hops?[...]

I think the result would greatly lack the lingering mid-palate hop character that must rely on different fractions than what you pull out at fermentation temperatures...

Cheers!

 

[thedon986]

My first two NEIPAs had 50/50 2-Row and Maris Otter, my 3rd batch was all 2-Row for base and I couldn't tell a different in malt flavor.

 

[RedIvan16]

Your hopping schedule is perfect. That's the typical hops and schedule for NEIPAs

Why the split base malts? Golden Promise should do the trick, not sure if you need the 2 row. The brewery I intern with actually used Pearl Malt for all their NEIPAs, with a little C10 and flaked oats.

1318 is a fine yeast, as are the commercial Conan strains availible

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, I've been using 50/50 Pearl and Golden Promise for my pales/ipas/neipas, crushed brew day mornings.
And with 1318 the base malt flavor contribution is more evident than the Conan strain I've used (Imperial A04) which tends to finish drier...

Cheers!

 

[Jtvann]

My thinking behind this was pretty simple. I’ve got 5lbs of 2 row on hand, but really wanted to try golden promise for the recipe. That’s where I got the 50:50 split.

I’ve read so much about those 3 hops, and while I like to be experimental, why stray too far from the accepted mould on my first shot.

I’ve also read that 1lb hops per 5 gallon batch is a good target to aim for, with late addition boil hops, flameout/Whirlpool hops, and dry hops using 1/3 of your hop bill respectively in each category. For me it was lazy math to drop 1oz for a total of 15 and try to spread them out evenly. Dunno what it’ll do. I’ll report back with my results when I get chance to brew.

I hadn’t considered crystal for color, and while I would like to leave it out, that electric orange is appealing to me. I do happen to have some crystal 15 on hand. I’d probably not use more than 4 oz though.

 

[day_trippr]

1 pound per 5 gallons? Woof. The BYO Julius recipe (which is a handy benchmark for neipas imo) uses 10 ounces.
Could it be even more fabulous at a pound?

Cheers!

 

[jpakstis]

fwiw, I've been using 50/50 Pearl and Golden Promise for my pales/ipas/neipas, crushed brew day mornings.

Out of curiosity, why the Golden Promise? I'm just intrigued.

And with 1318 the base malt flavor contribution is more evident than the Conan strain I've used (Imperial A04) which tends to finish drier...

I used A04 on a Heady Topper clone and wasn't all that impressed with it. In fact, it barely got going. Luckily I had a slurry of harvested yeast from a couple of Heady cans and it took off after that.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

That looks on point generally speaking. For yeast, I've used US05 and US04 and they've all worked. As for grain bill, I think you could probably just go all 2-Row, 1# flaked wheat, and I usually add 8 ounces of carapils/dextrine (for head retention), and between 12 oz - 1# of C-10, or C-15 if you can find it, to add a bit of the electric orange color. For instance Trillium uses 2-row, white wheat, C-15, and dextrine for their Fort Point Pale Ale. I've had great success (to me) with the following:

80% 2-row
11% white wheat malt
6% (ish) carapils/dextrine
3% (ish) C-15

Those are great hop choices! Galaxy is my favorite. You might not need all three of them, as I have found my taste is for pairing something bright and tropical like galaxy or mosaic with something like centennial or Simcoe to balance bright with something a little earthy. Galaxy, Amarillo, and Citra might get a little duplicative, but then again, maybe not!

As for hop schedule, I was just reading Brad Smith in the latest Brew Your Own talking about maximizing hopping additions and my curiosity is piqued. He recommends no late-boil or flameout additions, since close to 2/3rds of the hop oils from a hop like Amarillo or Citra (myrcene hop oil) will boil out in a 10 minute addition. Myrcene will boil at 160, so even a flameout addition might be too inefficient. I've done it where I add a bittering addition at the beginning of just enough to get to my target IBU (for a NEIPA around 40 IBUs, maybe?). I've used a hop extract mainly for that (to keep from too much kettle and overall trub loss since you're going to be adding a lot of hops!) Then the next addition is a hopstand/whirlpool addition. Then two dry hops, one around 3 days in, for that biotransformation effect, and then another a week later.

But one thing I've been wondering about with that BYO article is do you even need the whirlpool addition? Could you go with just the bittering addition and the dry hops? This isn't specific to your recipe, but just an idea that's banging around my head right now.

I've tried just bittering a dry hop, I've tried just bittering, WP and dry hop (both with one and two dry hop additions). The flavor intensity just isn't there.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

My thinking behind this was pretty simple. I’ve got 5lbs of 2 row on hand, but really wanted to try golden promise for the recipe. That’s where I got the 50:50 split.

I’ve read so much about those 3 hops, and while I like to be experimental, why stray too far from the accepted mould on my first shot.

I’ve also read that 1lb hops per 5 gallon batch is a good target to aim for, with late addition boil hops, flameout/Whirlpool hops, and dry hops using 1/3 of your hop bill respectively in each category. For me it was lazy math to drop 1oz for a total of 15 and try to spread them out evenly. Dunno what it’ll do. I’ll report back with my results when I get chance to brew.

I hadn’t considered crystal for color, and while I would like to leave it out, that electric orange is appealing to me. I do happen to have some crystal 15 on hand. I’d probably not use more than 4 oz though.

Assuming you can chill reasonably quickly, you will be very happy with this recipe. What are you doing for water?

 

[day_trippr]

Out of curiosity, why the Golden Promise? I'm just intrigued.

It's clean, light color base malt that I use to adjust the breadiness of Pearl depending on the style I'm going for. Nearly everything I brew uses one or the other or a combination. American ales use more GP/less Pearl, English styles use more or all Pearl. I try to keep a few brews worth on hand at all times...

I used A04 on a Heady Topper clone and wasn't all that impressed with it. In fact, it barely got going. Luckily I had a slurry of harvested yeast from a couple of Heady cans and it took off after that.

It's hard to be impressed by a yeast that fails

fwiw, I farmed a single can of A04 for over a year through numerous batches - still have enough stored to get that line going again - and it never failed to complete. What I did find, however, was to use a larger pitch and run a bit warmer - 66°F - lest the peach esters overwhelm. It's a better peach than US05 run cold, but it's still not a good peach. If I want peach I'll do it with hops...

Cheers!

 

[Jtvann]

So tomorrow may be brew day depending on answers here. I’m impatient and want to brew this ASAP. Ingredients are showing up from morebeer today. If I want to brew tomorrow, that doesn’t leave time to make a starter ... not a well timed out one anyway.

Question is, with a planned OG of 1.060, will one pack of fresh yeast(fresh being assumed), will I be ok. I had assumed that this style of beer is one that you want to have the yeast rip through and finish fast. BeerSmith is suggesting a 1 liter starter.

I can control temps nearly exactly and always diffuse pure O2 in before pitching.

Which of three options would you pick

1-Brew next week after a proper starter is made
2-Brew tomorrow as is with no starter
3-Make a 1 liter starter on stir plate and brew tomorrow, even though starter won’t be done

 

[thehaze]

If the yeast pack is very fresh, I would use it for a beer with an OG of 1.055-1.060. There is a possibility that the yeast will be stressed and will produce more esters ( not neccessariæy a bad thing for this style ). Seeing that you would probably underpitch, according to online calculators and many brewers, I would personally ferment a bit hotter, just to help the yeast. I would take that chance.

If the OG was around 1.050, I would not even flinch using one pack of fresh yeast.

PS: I think I read that Conan might be a bit slower fermenting and needing a bit more yeast cells. Others can pitch in with their experience.

 

[zgja2]

So tomorrow may be brew day depending on answers here. I’m impatient and want to brew this ASAP. Ingredients are showing up from morebeer today. If I want to brew tomorrow, that doesn’t leave time to make a starter ... not a well timed out one anyway.

Question is, with a planned OG of 1.060, will one pack of fresh yeast(fresh being assumed), will I be ok. I had assumed that this style of beer is one that you want to have the yeast rip through and finish fast. BeerSmith is suggesting a 1 liter starter.

I can control temps nearly exactly and always diffuse pure O2 in before pitching.

Which of three options would you pick

1-Brew next week after a proper starter is made
2-Brew tomorrow as is with no starter
3-Make a 1 liter starter on stir plate and brew tomorrow, even though starter won’t be done

1 yeast pack is defiantly not enough. Do not risk all those expensive hops on an iffy fermentation.

If you get the yeast today, make a starter right away. 24 hours is plenty for a healthy starter. I always go just 24 hours. Then you are good to brew tomorrow.

 

[zgja2]

Also please do not put crystal in this. Unless you are crazy about the stuff, it has no place in a NEIPA. IMHO

 

[GHBWNY]

Brew your recipe, adjust for future. FWIW, I like Golden Promise in any IPA: hint of breadiness.

 

[jpakstis]

Also please do not put crystal in this. Unless you are crazy about the stuff, it has no place in a NEIPA. IMHO

Why? For what its worth, Trillium Fort Point and their Street series have C-15 in them.

 

[zgja2]

I just do not prefer sweet and syrupy IPAs. Especially not in a NEIPA. I like to let the hops take the forefront as much as possible.

 

[jpakstis]

I just do not prefer sweet and syrupy IPAs. Especially not in a NEIPA. I like to let the hops take the forefront as much as possible.

Makes sense. I do prefer a drier NEIPA like Heady or Lunch not the "orange juice" types. I guess I needed to do more research; I mainly thought that that Crystal was in there to add some color since it was only a low percentage of the grain bill. But maybe next time I'll just drop it.

 

[jpakstis]

I've tried just bittering a dry hop, I've tried just bittering, WP and dry hop (both with one and two dry hop additions). The flavor intensity just isn't there.

That's what I thought but didn't know how much of a "hole" in the flavor it would cause. That answers that. I've had good results with bittering, late-boil/flameout, whirlpool, and dry hop so if it ain't broke...

 

[jpakstis]

Assuming you can chill reasonably quickly, you will be very happy with this recipe. What are you doing for water?

Yeah, not to complicate matters, but I found that water and any adjustments you might need to make affect the flavor and aroma in a big way. I live in eastern Massachusetts and we get our water from the Boston-area municipal source. Its actually really soft and adding hardening agents really helped in my opinion (it added some nice "bite" to a Heady Topper clone I made that I detect in the original). Then again Sam Adams uses the same water and makes no adjustments, so maybe I'm over-thinking it.

 

[thehaze]

They all say, they do not make adjustments... I would probably not believe that entirely. But soft water, will definitely help when brewing light coloured beers, and especially NEIPAs, with the proper adjustments, when and IF needed.

You're not over thinking it. Water is important. Maybe it does not mean much coming from a beginner like me, with a little over a years' experience in brewing, but water is definitely an aspect of brewing, worth " thinking " about. For me, tinkering with the water, has actually made a difference, which I enjoy.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Yeah, not to complicate matters, but I found that water and any adjustments you might need to make affect the flavor and aroma in a big way. I live in eastern Massachusetts and we get our water from the Boston-area municipal source. Its actually really soft and adding hardening agents really helped in my opinion (it added some nice "bite" to a Heady Topper clone I made that I detect in the original). Then again Sam Adams uses the same water and makes no adjustments, so maybe I'm over-thinking it.

For NEIPAs, I've had really good luck starting with RO water and adding gypsum, salt and calcium chloride to target 150ppm chloride, 75ppm sulfate and about 30ppm sodium. Our water sucks here so I wouldn't dream of brewing with it.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

So tomorrow may be brew day depending on answers here. I’m impatient and want to brew this ASAP. Ingredients are showing up from morebeer today. If I want to brew tomorrow, that doesn’t leave time to make a starter ... not a well timed out one anyway.

Question is, with a planned OG of 1.060, will one pack of fresh yeast(fresh being assumed), will I be ok. I had assumed that this style of beer is one that you want to have the yeast rip through and finish fast. BeerSmith is suggesting a 1 liter starter.

I can control temps nearly exactly and always diffuse pure O2 in before pitching.

Which of three options would you pick

1-Brew next week after a proper starter is made
2-Brew tomorrow as is with no starter
3-Make a 1 liter starter on stir plate and brew tomorrow, even though starter won’t be done

If you do your starter on a stir plate as soon as the yeast arrives, you'll be fine for tomorrow. 24 hours works fine...just no time to cold crash and decant. Just pitch the whole starter and you'll be good to go.

 

[Jtvann]

Yeast is here. Making the starter now. Probably a good 30 hours from pitch time anyway.

Will try to post my results as they come. This will be a fun brew day.

 

[Jtvann]

So I was considering adding crystal just for color. Crunching the numbers of crystal 15, the color change according to beersmith was negligible. I wasn’t ever considering adding more than half a pound. Without seeing more of a color change, I’m opting to not add any crystal at all.

 

[Jtvann]

Ok ... so the batch isn’t brewed yet. Somebody with experience on neipas please chime in. I’m aiming for 15oz in a 5 gallon batch off my reading of this forum only. This is my first neipa. I’ve got the hops ready to do 15 oz. I’m not aiming to waste expensive hops for no reason.

Really wanting feedback here. Am I overshooting what’s needed. If so, where would you reduce .... or add.

 

[chickypad]

I do pretty much the equivalent of what you have there except no 10 min addition and instead a small bittering charge of warrior or equivalent at 60. So I do 12 oz per 6 gals into the fermenter, plus bittering charge.

 

[tofuguy]

I recommend using the mutated 1318 stain which Vermont breweries are actually using, WLP 095 Burlington Ale Yeast White Labs.

 

[Jtvann]

Oh my god my garage smells amazing right now

 

[Jtvann]

I had so many snags going into this. While fly sparging my quick disconnects decided to leak water.
Luckily I had time to take them apart before the wort whirlpool.
I’m whirlpooling now. Nailed the OG spot on

 

[Jtvann]

Anybody who is interested in seeing what a tilt hydrometer log looks like, PM me and I’ll send a link

 

[zgja2]

Ok ... so the batch isn’t brewed yet. Somebody with experience on neipas please chime in. I’m aiming for 15oz in a 5 gallon batch off my reading of this forum only. This is my first neipa. I’ve got the hops ready to do 15 oz. I’m not aiming to waste expensive hops for no reason.

Really wanting feedback here. Am I overshooting what’s needed. If so, where would you reduce .... or add.

So i think you hop bill is fine. The biggest risk to wasting expensive hops in this style of beer is O2. Are you set up to purge while adding dry hops? Prevent suck back if cold crashing? closed transfer to keg? Any one of these can ruin a beer like this very fast.

 

[Jtvann]

Just added my first dose of dry hops. I’ve never seen a fermentation as vigorous is this. According to the tilt, it’s fermenting at about .02 per day. So today a 1.034, tomorrow a 1.014 if the rate keeps up.

To keep O2 low while dry hopping, I’m only opening a small hole in the top of the lid. A 1.5 TC cap. With positive pressure inside the fermenter, I’m hoping O2 won’t get in.

To prevent suck back, I take a sanitized balloon and fill it with CO2 from my keezer. Slip it over the blow off tube and let it do it’s thing.

Closed transfer is checked off as well. Have a pressurized transfer fitting with pressure blow off that fits on the previously mentioned 1.5 TC.

 

[zgja2]

Sounds like you are set up for success. Should be a great beer. I am guessing you will do a second round or dry hops? If so and the fermentation is slowed or stopped by then, I would put a co2 line in the opening of your fermentor and continuously purge while adding dry hops. IMHO. Cheers!