Finally - a good "session" IPA

[Braufessor]

After many disappointing attempts, I finally brewed a good (at least I and a few others who have tried it think it is good) "session" IPA. All of my previous attempts seemed to turn out thin, dry, astringent, weak, etc..... At any rate, this last attempt seems destined to get drunk up pretty quickly as it is only 18 days from brew day and a couple gallons are already gone. This is my latest attempt:

64% Rahr 2 Row
10% Dark Munich
12% Vienna
5% Wheat
5% Flaked Oats
2.5% Carapils
2.5% Caramel 60

86% Efficiency, 6.5 gallon batch - so adjust to your system.

FWH = .25oz. Centennial and .5 oz. Cascade

Flameout/Hopstand for 45 min. with a slow chill = 1.5 ounce each of Citra, Mosaic and Cascade

Dryhop 3 days = .5 ounce each of Cascade, Centennial, Citra, Mosaic

1968/002 yeast @ 64-68 for about 12 days. Dry hop in primary last 3 days. Straight into keg, carb and drink.

Water = 100%RO with low additions (.6 gr/gallon gypsum and .4 gr/gallon CaCl). Calcium =70, Sulfate = 90, Chloride = 50. Mash pH = 5.4 Yellow Bitter Brun water profile as a guideline.

Mash @ 155
OG = 1.049
FG = 1.015
ABV = 4.45%

The munich/vienna combo was mainly because of the amt. I had on hand of those two grains.... nothing special about the exact proportion. But, I would definitely keep a 20-25% portion for munich, or maybe a munich/vienna or munich/golden promise type mix. In general, very happy with the grain bill - beer is not thin and has nice body for a 4.5% beer. The only real change for the grain in the future is I would like to scale it back to about 4% if possible and maintain the body/maltiness.

Hops - I am happy with them. Although, I may experiment with the same amts/types of additions - but some other varieties. Maybe use some columbus to bitter the next one instead of cascade/centennial. Perhaps some simcoe? Centennial seems to have a bit of a "drying" effect that I would like to eliminate. The hops really shine through with this one though and I cannot complain at all.

Yeast - 002/1968 for sure from here on in with my "smallish" IPA/APA type beers. It really left the perfect amt. of body and it drops clear easily too.

Water - Scaling back on gypsum was significant I think. In the past, I tried to maintain 150-200-250 levels of sulfate to accentuate hops and the beers just came off as dry/chalky/thin....... I think the 100% RO water and balanced mineral profile really helped this one.

At any rate, thought I would share and see if any others have had successes with "small" IPA type beers. I have been trying to brew a decent, low alcohol "IPA" for a couple years and was starting to lose hope. Even the vast majority of the commercial ones I have tried have been very disappointing - so was beginning to think it was a "white whale."

Be interested in any success others have had with this style and what they thought some of the keys were.

Updated with "best to date attempt":

4.6% abv. This came out as a great session IPA. Definitely hoppier/more bitter(assertive) than last few. No harshness at all. Wish I could take all the credit for it - but hop schedule is not mine (Kelsey McNair recipe - see link below.) This is easily my best attempt so far.

68% Rahr 2 Row
17% Munich
4.5% Wheat
4.5% Flaked Oats
2% Carapils
2% Caramel 20
1% Honey Malt

Hops:
.75 oz. Warrior (60)
.25 oz. Columbus (30)
.33 oz. Amarillo (10)
.33 oz. Simcoe (10)
1oz. each at flame out, with 30 minute hopstand @180ish: Citra, Simcoe, Columbus, Amarillo, Chinook

1oz. each of the same (as flameout) for dry hop. In a CO2 purged secondary for 5 days.

Used 1056.

Water targets were:
Ca = 64
MG = 8
Na = 8
Sulfate = 150
Chloride = 30
Bicarb = 16
Mash pH 5.36

100% RO water

*Basically, I used my grain bill with the hop schedule found in the following thread - Kelsey McNair Session IPA with Stone/Ballast Point.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/stone-ballast-point-kelsey-mcnair-collaboration-201080/

I rebrewed this same beer but took out the chinook and replaced with Centennial/Cascade (Chinook is not a huge favorite of mine). I also used Conan yeast in recent batch. Not sure how it is yet - still in primary.

 

[JonM]

Sub'd. That looks like a really nice recipe. I like the use of 1968 yeast. I think I'm gonna have to try this one.

 

[how1]

I want to give your recipe a shot. What was your IBU amount?

 

[Braufessor]

The IBU's were really low because it was all added at the end..... Only 17 IBU on iBrewmaster or something like that ..... but, it is way hoppier than 17 IBU's indicate. I probably will shoot for a bit more on the front end next time though using columbus to bitter..... maybe .75 ounce FWH is what I am thinking.

* Also, I added to original post - 6.5 gallon batch and I got 86% efficiency, so adjust accordingly to shoot for that 1.045-1.050 range.

 

[punkrawkgeek]

Plugged it in... And didn't seem like nearly enough bittering hops. Maybe I put it in wrong.

 

[Braufessor]

Plugged it in... And didn't seem like nearly enough bittering hops. Maybe I put it in wrong.

Does not seem like enough to get to the 17 IBU's that it registered...... or does not seem like enough to get to IPA level of IBU's?

Like I said - all the hops were added at the end - so they "register" 0 IBU's in most formula's. But, the perceived hoppiness of the beer is much more than the IBU calculation.

I am going to push that higher next time around though. In the past, the low gravity + high IBU + high sulfate ended up producing harsh, dry, thin beers that were not at all in the realm of a "drinkable" IPA type beer. This is the first one that came across as 1.) Really drinkable, 2.) Hoppy 3.) Full Bodied and 4.) Balanced. I think trying to push the "IBU Level" too high in a beer like this just throws it off.

Biggest problem is there is really no such thing as a "session IPA." But, what I have been going for is a beer that is full of hops, balanced like an IPA - but, does not get me wasted on 3-4 because it is 8% abv...... closest thing so far.

 

[Yooper]

That sounds great- I love the combination of hops you have there. I will try something very similar (except for the dark Munich and carapils, as I don't have any- but I do have Munich), and without Mosaic as I don't have any of those either. But, it will still be very similar, I guess.

I noticed that Beersmith and Brewer's Friend do have IBU calculations for whirlpool hops, once you input the time and temperature. That may give you a more accurate picture of the amount of IBUs you have there.

 

[Braufessor]

That sounds great- I love the combination of hops you have there. I will try something very similar (except for the dark Munich and carapils, as I don't have any- but I do have Munich), and without Mosaic as I don't have any of those either. But, it will still be very similar, I guess.

I noticed that Beersmith and Brewer's Friend do have IBU calculations for whirlpool hops, once you input the time and temperature. That may give you a more accurate picture of the amount of IBUs you have there.

Funny you mention all of those Yooper...... I had initially planned on using 2.5lbs of munich - but I decided to "use up" the Dark Munich and Vienna I had on hand and not open my new sack of munich. And, I did not plan on using the Mosaic...... but, I had a few ounces on hand and figured I would use them instead of opening something else..... So, I will likely brew something "very similar" next time too

 

[100amps]

I was going to mention the whirlpool option in BS too. But I think it still doesn't give you a good handle on the bitterness.

When you whirlpool (delayed chill), all the earlier hops are still in there with enough heat to continue isomerizing AAs for a little while, so you end up with a bit higher IBU than BS predicts.

That's my theory and I'm sticking with it. Lol.

..todd

 

[Yooper]

I was going to mention the whirlpool option in BS too. But I think it still doesn't give you a good handle on the bitterness.

When you whirlpool (delayed chill), all the earlier hops are still in there with enough heat to continue isomerizing AAs for a little while, so you end up with a bit higher IBU than BS calcs.

That's my theory and I'm sticking with it. Lol.

..todd

Yes, but..........if you boil for 60 minutes, and whirlpool for 30 minutes, you still won't get the IBUs of a 90 minute boil. You'll get more than the 60 minute boi, yes. But if you look at the differences in IBUs between a 90 minute boil and a 60 minute boil, once you go over 60 minutes the difference in IBUs is pretty negligible anyway. In other words, once they are fully isomerized, they don't provide more IBUs. I think at most you'd get a 75 minute contribution from the 60 minute addition, if a hop stand is done.

Nothing scientific about that, I will admit- just my guess based on the differences between the boil times and that there is still isomerization below boiling temperatures. But, it's about as good as a guess as the whole 'whirlpool' addition feature that beersmith has, in my opinion! :cross:

 

[100amps]

Yes, but..........if you boil for 60 minutes, and whirlpool for 30 minutes, you still won't get the IBUs of a 90 minute boil. You'll get more than the 60 minute boi, yes. But if you look at the differences in IBUs between a 90 minute boil and a 60 minute boil, once you go over 60 minutes the difference in IBUs is pretty negligible anyway.
:cross:

Totally agree. I was referring to the 30, 15, 10, 5 minute additions that still have some life left in them.

Once you've boiled the IBUs out of a hop dose, there's nothing left.

..todd

 

[Braufessor]

Version 2.0 underway.

Simplified the grain bill and cut it back a touch, shooting for 3.9% beer.
6lb 2 row (60%)
2.5lb munich (25%)
.5lb wheat (5%)
.5lb flaked oats (5%)
.25lb caramel 40 (2.5%)
.25 carapils (2.5%)

(6.5 gallons @ 1.044 OG)

Cut back water additions a bit: CA = 55, Sul = 82, Chloride = 40. 100%RO water

Still using 1968 yeast shooting for a 1.012-1.014 FG

Biggest change is hops:
1 oz. Columbus FWH
Flameout/Hopstand: (1.5 ounces each) Citra, Simcoe, Mosaic
Dryhop 3 days: (.5 ounces each) Citra, Simcoe, Mosaic, Columbus

Getting ready for Mashout now..... so, guess we will see how these changes work out in a bout 2 weeks.

The original version is still going down great..... some of the initial "breadiness" has gone away. I think it just needed a few more days for the CO2 to stabilize. It is really, really drinkable right now and is a big hit with all who have hand a pint..... or pints. The original is now 25 days from the day it was brewed. Probably be all gone in the next week.

 

[Yooper]

I like it! I'm going to make something similar, but using less Munich and instead adding Vienna malt. I'm also going to use golden naked oats instead of the flaked oats, because I don't like the "creaminess" or oiliness of the flaked oats as much in the mouthfeel and the golden naked oats seem to bring a slight toasty/nutty flavor.

I have a ton of columbus, but somehow I perceive columbus as too harsh to work well in a session IPA, so make sure you let us know how this comes out. I'm eager to try it!

 

[Braufessor]

I'm also going to use golden naked oats instead of the flaked oats, because I don't like the "creaminess" or oiliness of the flaked oats as much in the mouthfeel and the golden naked oats seem to bring a slight toasty/nutty flavor.

The golden naked oats is a good idea..... Let me know how it works for you. I was thinking about flaked barley, but I get a bit of "graininess" out of that. I like the "creaminess" of the flaked oats.... but not so much the oiliness. Basically, looking for things that boost the perception of a fuller beer. The one thing that has always been wrong with past attempts is that I perceived them as "thin" and "weak." That has always been the #1 obstacle as it then made the hops come off has harsh. I have considered adding some Briess Ashburne Mild Ale Malt - that has always worked well in Milds I have brewed.

I have a ton of columbus, but somehow I perceive columbus as too harsh to work well in a session IPA, so make sure you let us know how this comes out. I'm eager to try it!

Yep - that is my concern too. But, I love columbus in a bigger IPA, and am curious if it will play in the smaller version or not. Definitely the one aspect of this version that I am a bit hesitant about. But, there is only one way to find out for sure. If it does come across harsh, I will move back to something like the Centennial/cascade FWH probably. Maybe Nugget???

Let me know of any successes (failures) you have with this - be interested in anyone's attempts and results.

 

[Braufessor]

Couple updates. Kegged Version 2.0 today. Also, added the dryhops in SS Mesh Cylinder in the keg. Overall, the beer tasted good out of the fermenter with one minor exception - there was a bit of an underlying "sharpness" to it. Wondering if it is not some acetaldehyde from the 1968/002 that has not fermented out yet? I have had that happen with some other beers with this yeast - perhaps the "green apple" flavor in the background is coming across. I left the keg out at 70 degrees to see if it will clean itself up a bit more. It has in the past.
Otherwise, it was good. Did not get any of the "harshness" from the hop change. Was worried that the columbus especially might be too much. So, guess I will see after 3-4 day dry hop, carb it up for 3-4 days and see how it is next weekend. At this point, I think version 1 was better, but it is more about the "sharpness" than it is about the changes in the hops I made. Hopefully it comes around.

I also did an offshoot of this recipe - not really a session IPA - just a session american ale. Very generic. Looking for something to replace "american wheat" in my line up for a good, basic drinking beer that appeals to anyone. Think I found it. The same grain bill as Version 2. Used 1.5 ounces of Liberty at 40 minutes, 2 ounces of Wilamette just before flame out. Fermented with 1056 in the 62-66 range. It is GREAT. Can't believe what a good beer it is. 4.1%ABV. Great body, flavor, mouthfeel. Some hops, but nothing that is real pronounced. 100% RO with 55ppm of Ca, Sulfate and Chloride. Really pleased with this one for sure. It has only been on the gas for 2 days, but it is a real drinker. Perfect for introducing people to homebrew.

I will wait a week or two before trying a "version 3.0" IPA - want to see how 2.0 comes around and then assess any changes from there.
*Definitely like the grain bill (maybe go back to vienna instead of all munich.
*Happy with 002/1968 yeast - although the 1056 in the plain ale was good too.
*Absolutely think the RO/basic mineral profile for water is essential.
*Hops seem to be the variable that has a wide range of possibilities.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks for the report! My columbus hops are begging to be used, so I feel better now about using them in a lower ABV IPA/pale ale. Thanks!

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Thanks for sharing this. I am planning on brewing something along these lines between christmas and new years. It will likely be the inaugural brew in the conical!

 

[Braufessor]

Cool, let me know if you learn anything new or try something new.

 

[Brettomomyces]

Very well thought out recipe, I'm usually a "simpler is better" when it comes to grain bills but I think that is probably pretty essential to creating something less than 5% that still has a lot of complexity and body. When I get around to making a session IPA finally I'm definitely going to try out this recipe. If you haven't tried it yet, the wyeast 1217 might be good for this beer. The pale I made with it has a wonderful mix of esters that work well with the hops and didn't get super dry either.

 

[Braufessor]

And...... Version 3 is in the fermenter.

Version 2 was fine..... but I did not really like the simcoe/Mosaic combo.... just too fruity in the end. Version 1 was better (at least to my tastes) than version 2.

Version 3 included the basic grainbill from #1:
60% 2 Row
15% Vienna
10% Dark Munich (15L)
5% Wheat
5% Flaked Oats
2.5% Briess Caramel 40
2.5% carapils

1.044 OG (6.5 gallons)

Hops:
*FWH 1oz. Coumbus
*Flameout/Hopstand 170-180 degrees @30 min. 1.5 oz. each of Citra, Centennial and Cascade
*Dry hop will be .5 oz each of Columbus, Centennial, Cascade, Citra for 3 days

Even though I have liked 1968 yeast, I tried 1318 London Ale III because I had just brewed an english bitter and had 3 mason jars of harvested yeast....... hoping it will do well in this beer as well.

I am optimistic about this one. We will see.

 

[JKaranka]

You are going full circle to inventing a modern British pale ale or golden ale :-D Have you seen the thread on St Austell's tribute? Btw, many decades of session IPAs here at least since the 30's. Check GK IPA or Brains IPA. With the great gravity drop IPA often went from above 1050 to below 1040 while regular pale ale remained a tad stronger. Clearly not session AIPAs, though.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

I am brewing something similar on new years. Here is what I ended up with.

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Session IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 11 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 15 gallons
Boil Gravity: 9.1 °P
Efficiency: 80% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 12.2 °P
Final Gravity: 3.0 °P
ABV (standard): 4.96%
IBU (tinseth): 79.46
SRM (morey): 7.97

FERMENTABLES:
11 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (57.9%)
4 lb - American - Munich - Light 10L (21.1%)
1 lb - American - White Wheat (5.3%)
1 lb - Flaked Oats (5.3%)
1 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 60L (5.3%)
1 lb - American - Carapils (Dextrine Malt) (5.3%)

HOPS:
0.5 oz - Warrior, Type: Pellet, AA: 15.7, Use: First Wort, IBU: 9.3
0.5 oz - Centennial, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.7, Use: First Wort, IBU: 5.15
0.5 oz - Cascade, Type: Pellet, AA: 6.3, Use: First Wort, IBU: 3.73
3 oz - Cascade, Type: Pellet, AA: 6.3, Use: Whirlpool for 45 min at 205 °F, IBU: 12.87
3 oz - Chinook, Type: Pellet, AA: 13.4, Use: Whirlpool for 45 min at 205 °F, IBU: 27.37
3 oz - Northern Brewer, Type: Pellet, AA: 10.3, Use: Whirlpool for 45 min at 205 °F, IBU: 21.04
1 oz - Cascade, Type: Pellet, AA: 6.3, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days
1 oz - Centennial, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.7, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days
1 oz - Ahtanum, Type: Pellet, AA: 4.6, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days
1 oz - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 13.2, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 155 F, Time: 60 min
2) Temperature, Temp: 168 F, Time: 10 min, Mash Out
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.5 qt/lb

I changed up the hops based on what I have on hand or want to use up. The AA reflect my actual hops.

 

[Braufessor]

I am brewing something similar on new years. Here is what I ended up with.

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Session IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 11 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 15 gallons
Boil Gravity: 9.1 °P
Efficiency: 80% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 12.2 °P
Final Gravity: 3.0 °P
ABV (standard): 4.96%
IBU (tinseth): 79.46
SRM (morey): 7.97

FERMENTABLES:
11 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (57.9%)
4 lb - American - Munich - Light 10L (21.1%)
1 lb - American - White Wheat (5.3%)
1 lb - Flaked Oats (5.3%)
1 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 60L (5.3%)
1 lb - American - Carapils (Dextrine Malt) (5.3%)

HOPS:
0.5 oz - Warrior, Type: Pellet, AA: 15.7, Use: First Wort, IBU: 9.3
0.5 oz - Centennial, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.7, Use: First Wort, IBU: 5.15
0.5 oz - Cascade, Type: Pellet, AA: 6.3, Use: First Wort, IBU: 3.73
3 oz - Cascade, Type: Pellet, AA: 6.3, Use: Whirlpool for 45 min at 205 °F, IBU: 12.87
3 oz - Chinook, Type: Pellet, AA: 13.4, Use: Whirlpool for 45 min at 205 °F, IBU: 27.37
3 oz - Northern Brewer, Type: Pellet, AA: 10.3, Use: Whirlpool for 45 min at 205 °F, IBU: 21.04
1 oz - Cascade, Type: Pellet, AA: 6.3, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days
1 oz - Centennial, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.7, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days
1 oz - Ahtanum, Type: Pellet, AA: 4.6, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days
1 oz - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 13.2, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 155 F, Time: 60 min
2) Temperature, Temp: 168 F, Time: 10 min, Mash Out
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.5 qt/lb

I changed up the hops based on what I have on hand or want to use up. The AA reflect my actual hops.

That looks great..... I especially like the Warrior/Cascade/Centennial combo on a lot of the hops. I have never used ahtanum.... but have had beers with it and liked it. I am not a huge chinook fan, but that is personal preference and I bet this comes out great. Let me know what you think of it when it is done..... The hop bill is the one thing that I am still least certain of on my attempts so far, so always looking for something new there.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

It is a great hop combo. I am also going to use wlp001 for this. I use it for a lot of my brews, including a 4% abv dark session, and it works well. I'll report back on the findings. There is a complicating factor here as I am using my conical for the first time. So, hopefully there are not too many variables in play on this beer.

I am going for the piney end of hoppy. I think next time I'll swap warrior for columbus and see what happens. I love columbus for that dank quality it can contribute to hoppy beers.

If it turns out good I would consider swapping with your latest version. If that is something you are interested in.

 

[Braufessor]

If it turns out good I would consider swapping with your latest version. If that is something you are interested in.

You bet - I would be up for that...... Great way to try some different approaches without having to go through 4-6 weeks worth of brewing an entire batch just to find something out. Hopefully mine will turn out well also and be worth sending

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Hoepfully both of ours come out okay then...

I just pumped around 11 to 12 gallons of 12.1ºP sweet wort into the fermenter. Missed my expected og by 0.1ºP. I can live with that. My black box has it sitting at 69.2ºF right now. I need to get a new glycol pump because apparently I undersized this one and I found that out when testing it today during the brew session. Whoops!! I'll clean up and install that pump this evening and then pitch my yeast. Should be dryhopping this bad boy in about a week or so. Then off to the keg.

The post-boil sample tastes very nice. The bitterness is light and very smooth. I have high hopes for this batch!

 

[Bobcatbrewing42]

Braufessor: I saw your post about a Session IPA. That sounds good. Here is one that I did for a New Year's tasting party and this beer was the crowd favorite. It is pretty similar to yours. The flavor is malty up front and doesn't seem anything like an IPA but after a minute the hop finish is very nice and lingers. I used Beer Smith to put it together. The Cascade/Citra/Simcoe finishing hop idea is almost a cliché so I tried Athanum. I have been having good luck with the Athanum for a variety of uses and I need to use some up.

Grain Bill
13.5 # 2 row pale
4 # toasted malt (toasted 2 row in frying pan on stovetop)
1.5# Crystal 20
1# flaked barley
2.5 oz Roasted Barley
Mashed w 168 degree strike water. Step temp- 154F for 65 min.
Fly sparged 20 min. @ 168F -+

Hops:
1.5 oz Bravo 15.1% Boil 60 min
1 oz Centennial 10% Boil 30 min
1 oz Cascade 5.5% Boil 15 min
1 tsp Irish Moss boil 10 min.
1oz Citra 12% 12% Boil 6 min
1 oz Simcoe 13% Boil 6 min
Dry hopped in keg w .75 oz Athanum per 5 gal keg.
Yeast Safale 04 in one fermenter Safale 05 in other
Boil 60 min. Measured OG 1048. Yield 11 gal FG 1014

Fermented 14 days @ 66F

Kegged and dry hopped in keg.
Drinkable after two days, much better after a week. Keg#1 did not survive New Years. It is time to Keg #2.

 

[BigPerm]

With the goal of a great Session IPA in mind, I'm going to post mine too. This was my first attempt, and it came out better than I expected. It has been rebrewed since, but still too young to assess. Throwing out there in case anyone is interested/wants to start a discussion. The first batch was split into two kettles and single hopped (Mosaic, Amarillo) so I'll provide bare minimum details. Maybe it didn't taste exactly like a true 7-8% IPA, but it was pretty close. Just trying to add to the conversation.

Recipe:
72.7% Pale Malt (we used 20% golden promise)
13% Munich
6.5% Aromatic
5.2% Carapils
2.6% Torrified Wheat

Boil addition to 20 IBU at 60 minutes. Everything else added with 5 minutes or less in the boil.

Here's to a great SIPA!

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Pulled a sample today on day 5. Yum. Down to 1.012. Raised the temp to 70ºF and going to add dry hops on Friday. It has a nice bready note to the hydrometer sample. The hops are pleasant but not too intense. The dryhop should be the icing on the cake. I really need to figure out what my tap water has in it because I just ran it through a carbon filter and brewed.

 

[Braufessor]

My 3rd attempt is now in the keg, got dry hops on it right now and will take those out tomorrow night and put it on the gas. Hopefully it will be ready to sample in a few days.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

You are ahead of me!

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Midnight tonight will be 96 hours on the dry hops. I will set the controller to crash it while I sleep. Last time I crashed I couldn't get it below 39ºF and that was with the system running 100%. This time I insulated the glycol lines. Maybe that will help... Plan to keg tomorrow morning sometime. I can freakin' wait! I have an american strong up next and then a big, dry DIPA. I need another conical.

 

[Braufessor]

Cool. Mine should be about carbed. But, I think it will take a bit of time for it to kind of come together. This one seems a bit harsher than the others. Not bad necessarily, but somewhat rough at this point. I am hoping as the carbonation gets about right, the beer clears and the hops blend together it will be what I am hoping for. Jury is still out for now, but, it will be at least "decent/good" based on my early tasting.

I am brewing tonight. 1.050 APA. Basically, using it as a way of growing up some Conan yeast that I cultured out of Heady Topper. Also going to use all 7 C's hops that I want to use up.
No FWH or 60 min. addition
30 min. - 2 ounces
Flame out/Hop stand - 3 ounces
Dry hop - 2 ounces

Grain bill is similar to the original on this thread.

 

[Braufessor]

Well, I am not ready to say "perfect"..... but, this beer is pretty good. Version 3. Brewed 17 days ago......first real sample today. A bit cloudy, but that will clear after a few more days/pours. I still hope the hops blend together a bit more and smooth out. But, this is the best of the 3 versions so far.
4.0% ABV
46 IBU's from columbus bittering(plus 6 ounces of hopstand/dry hop with Columbus, centennial, citra, cascade).

The 1318 yeast worked well in this version, but I still think 002/1968 is the way to go probably.

I am sure I will continue to play with hop variations.

 

[JKaranka]

Is it worth lowering the bittering to around 30-35 IBU? You'll get a few IBU from the hopstand anyway. Might speed up the mellowing.

 

[Braufessor]

Is it worth lowering the bittering to around 30-35 IBU? You'll get a few IBU from the hopstand anyway. Might speed up the mellowing.

yeah.... I think it would. But, at that point the beer is becoming a pale ale or even just above the guidelines of a Blonde ale. I really Want to try to make it more of a true "session" IPA. This version is on the low end of IBU's for an American IPA.... but, solidly within the range (+hopstand IBU's). But, it is actually under the low end of the gravity for an APA. And, then still trying to balance that low gravity with the hops and still have a smooth beer.

If I feel like the high IBU combinations are just not feasible, I will back it down..... but, for now I am going to keep playing around in that 45-50 range if I can.

Plus, at only 17 days old, and already pretty darn drinkable (I am about to head back for half-pint #3) ...... I am cautiously optimistic about how this one is going to taste in another week.

 

[JKaranka]

I think you are in no guideline territory anyway so I wouldn't bother too much. I'd be keener to keep the high late additions of an IPA but to keep the bitterness in proportion to its strength. It's more about perceived bitterness and hop flavour anyway. One pub I went to had a 3.5%, 85IBU beer as their house beer and ot was surprisingly decent, though.

 

[joshesmusica]

Does not seem like enough to get to the 17 IBU's that it registered...... or does not seem like enough to get to IPA level of IBU's?

Like I said - all the hops were added at the end - so they "register" 0 IBU's in most formula's. But, the perceived hoppiness of the beer is much more than the IBU calculation.

I am going to push that higher next time around though. In the past, the low gravity + high IBU + high sulfate ended up producing harsh, dry, thin beers that were not at all in the realm of a "drinkable" IPA type beer. This is the first one that came across as 1.) Really drinkable, 2.) Hoppy 3.) Full Bodied and 4.) Balanced. I think trying to push the "IBU Level" too high in a beer like this just throws it off.

Biggest problem is there is really no such thing as a "session IPA." But, what I have been going for is a beer that is full of hops, balanced like an IPA - but, does not get me wasted on 3-4 because it is 8% abv...... closest thing so far.

my biggest concern with this whole process/thread:
you get wasted off of 3-4 8% beers? come on man!

+1 on perceived bitterness though. i've pretty much stopped going off of IBUs being in the style guidelines, and more going off of ibug ratio. and then adjusting that even depending on my FG.

 

[Braufessor]

I think you are in no guideline territory anyway so I wouldn't bother too much. I'd be keener to keep the high late additions of an IPA but to keep the bitterness in proportion to its strength. It's more about perceived bitterness and hop flavour anyway. One pub I went to had a 3.5%, 85IBU beer as their house beer and ot was surprisingly decent, though.

Oh, I am not really that concerned about adhering to any particular aspect of style other than I am shooting for 4% or less and want to still make it taste like a good, solid IPA. Some bitterness is needed for that (I think)..... how much...... that is what I am trying to push. My first version had very low "IBU" bitterness. This version was fairly high. I think this one is going to come across better with that increased bittering. I do think the hop "flavor" is the more important aspect though of a beer like this. It is only going to hold up to so much bitterness but will likely hold up to more late addition flavor.

 

[Braufessor]

my biggest concern with this whole process/thread:
you get wasted off of 3-4 8% beers? come on man!
.

Ha..... ok.... not "wasted".... but getting pretty buzzed. Does not help that I generally drink out of a 20 oz. glass either I suppose But, with any good beer, I would always prefer to drink 4-5 than 1-3. If I can make the good beer with half the alcohol and a smaller portion of the calories then I can drink more without actually drinking more