Fermenter advice

[marjen]

So I am looking to upgrade my fermentation situation. Currently I just use 2 6.5 gallon plastic carboys. Looking at either moving to 14 gallon Spike or SS Brewtech conicals or possibly the fastferment conical.

Things that are important.

1. Would like to be able to do pressure transfers to keg.
2. Some kind of temp control. possible calling and heating.
3. Easy dry hopping.
4. Possibly pressure fermentation.
5. Easy cleaning possibly with CIP.

Also would a SS conical make better beer than a plastic one? If the fast ferment is decent I would not mind saving the money over the SS options. But I also only want to do this once. I just got into this a couple months ago and wanted to wait to see if I liked it before spending money on fermenters but I really like this hobby and have made a couple solid beers already so looking to keep this going long term.

 

[Bensiff]

A stainless conical does not make better beer than a plastic bucket. They have certain advantages; but, that of making superior beer is not one of them. At the same time, I wouldn't spend extra money on a plastic conical when something like a Better Bottle does a great job. Plastic scratches and eventually needs replaced, stainless when treated right will last a lifetime so its a better investment if you are going to be in the hobby for the long haul.

You say you just got into the hobby though. Not knowing exactly what sort of setup you have, there may be many other items that will improve your beer and/or brewing experience for a lot less money. I'd personally put getting a conical towards the end of the list of brewing toys. I've been using plastic and glass fermenters for over 15 years with great success. Even though I have a conical, I still regularly go back to my Better Bottles for ease of use.

 

[Drk93TT]

Honestly exactly what this guy says ^

I have fermented in plastic buckets, glass carboys, and SSBT Brewbuckets.

I Prefer the SS brew tech brew bucket (brewmaster with the thermowell) for the ease of cleaning, ability to use my temp controller in the thermowell, and transfers are a breeze.

I currently only do 5-5.5 gallon batches. Pressurized transfers are possible but I just blanket with co2 in a clean sanitized keg and rack it. Works fine with little-none hop aroma loss.

Conical is overkill unless you are reusing yeast OR doing 10 gallon batches. This is my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt.

 

[woo_pig]

It is better to buy once.

 

[marjen]

Thanks for the advise. I am looking to start doing 10 gallon batches as my normal brew day so the idea of having a single fermenter to handle it all is appealing. Also temp control is important. Followed by ease of pressure transfers and a testing port would be nice. I guess I am fine with a plastic fermenter as long as I can find one that meets all those needs.

Also I thought fermentation was one of the most important parts to focus on? I am doing BIAB so only have a kettle for other major equipment.

Also considering a Speidel Plastic Fermenter - 60L (15.9 gal). SO maybe looking at that vs the fastFerment if I don't go with a big SS conical.

 

[Dcpcooks]

Well to tick off your list of want too's you can't really pressure transfer with plastic. Plus it will scratch at some point. Spike looks like a nice unit if they every release it for sale. I have two ss brewtech 1/2 bbl conicals one is a 1st gen unit the second I got after winning my fantasy football last year. They work great. I suggest you consider the domed top. The only drawback to the ss conical is the clamps. I've not had a problem but they could be more robust.

Cip is easy. So is a dry hop. Dumping trub isn't really necessary. But when I harvest my yeast it's a great feature. Dump trub, ferment, harvest yeast and dry hop. Fast and sanitary. You can't pressure ferment in the ss stuff. It's only rated to 5 psi. You'd need a brewers hardware unit for that. Spike might be capable and maybe stout too.

Temp control is easy but costs some additional money. I have one unit on a glycol chiller and one in a fridge. The fridge unit has a ranco two stage controller on it with a small heater. Inkbird is cheap and works well. I needed more wattage to work with my fridge so I went ranco. Works great year round in an insulated garage.

I'd say fermentation control is the best thing to happen to my beer since I started brewing.

 

[303Dan]

I have the SS Brewtech Chronical BME edition and have been very happy with it so far. I think it checks all your boxes. PM me if you want, I'd be happy to answer any questions you have about it.

Dan

 

[Bensiff]

Thanks for the advise. I am looking to start doing 10 gallon batches as my normal brew day so the idea of having a single fermenter to handle it all is appealing.

Don't discount the split batch. One of the reasons I go to my Better Bottles and leave my 1/2 bbl conical to collect dust is to split the batch. You can do all sorts of stuff like different yeast strains, different dry hops, fruit, experiment with different pitch rates, oxygen rates, ferment temps, etc. Lots of stuff that can give you two different beers from one batch or chances to learn how variables impact your brew.

 

[Schreiner]

I have a 14 gallon Chapman fermenter, and couldn't be happier with it! https://www.chapmanequipment.com/collections/fermenters/products/14-gallon-steeltank-fermenter

 

[jmill]

I brew 10 gal batches normally and have used the Fermonster, glass carboys, plastic buckets, and SS Brewtech Brewmaster Bucket.

I prefer the SS Brewtech bucket due to ease of cleaning and transferring. The temp probe also is nice.

I considered a larger conical, but went with 2 brew buckets instead. A few reasons I made that call:

1. I can split batches, using two diff yeasts or some other added ingredient.
2. The buckets fit nicely in either my Cool Brew coolers or garage fridge.
3. If I want to do a smaller batch of something I don't want 10 gals of (barley wine), I don't have to worry about a huge headspace.

That said, if you're looking at a total cooling system like SS Brewtech offers, cheaper to buy one for the conical than two bucket systems.

 

[marjen]

I have the SS Brewtech Chronical BME edition and have been very happy with it so far. I think it checks all your boxes.

I am looking at these, but have a few concerns. I would still like a larger fermenter for one. And the 2nd thing is concern that the trub would extent past the spigot. I add a lot of hops. I usually have about 1 gallon of true in my carboys. Worried that the bottom of the BME Is not big enough to accommodate that. With a conical that has a true port I could drop the true first, plus then collect the yeast. I do kind of like the idea of split batch ability but its not a driving factor.
Additionally 1 14g conical would be close to 2 7 gallon brew buckets.

I would say at this point. I am considering in following order.

1. Spike 14g
2. SS BT 14g
3.(2) SS BT BME Brewbuckets
4. Speidel 15.9 gallon fermenter.

 

[brewmeister13]

I've been wrestling with the same thoughts. Originally, I liked the SS Brewtech BME one the most, but I've come around on the Spike and think I can wait them out (they are getting really close to their release). First, the SS Brewtech BME has the cooling coil built in. Seemed like a nice piece, but I'm not ready to build a glycol system and don't want to drop $1000 on theirs when I can get an upright freezer on craigslist for between $100-200 and an ink bird controller. Second, if not BME, it doesn't have a sample port. This is a huge selling point for me. I like the ease of taking samples. Finally, their lid clamps will pop over 5 psi (or at least that's what they say). I'd like to be able to spund in my conical and Spike said they were sending theirs off last week for pressure certification. Here's to hoping all goes well for them with that. Anyways, good luck with the shopping and I'd be interested to hear your final decision.

 

[marjen]

I found a bunch of spike's instagram posts from the fall where they went over each feature of the conical over a series of a few days. I'm sold. Looks very solid. Not crazy about have to take temp controller out for dry hopping but that is minor in the scheme of things. I am going to pull the trigger on a 14g as soon as they release them. Might be a little while before i can afford all the upgrades, but at least want to get the base unit. Also going to be getting a 20 gallon kettle from them once they are in stock. Time to increase production!

 

[brewmeister13]

I found a bunch of spike's instagram posts from the fall where they went over each feature of the conical over a series of a few days. I'm sold. Looks very solid. Not crazy about have to take temp controller out for dry hopping but that is minor in the scheme of things. I am going to pull the trigger on a 14g as soon as they release them. Might be a little while before i can afford all the upgrades, but at least want to get the base unit. Also going to be getting a 20 gallon kettle from them once they are in stock. Time to increase production!

Nice! I've built a hop cannon to use on the 1.5" tri-clover port that I plan to post up soon. That would eliminate the need to remove the larger clamp and chiller coil (I assume that was what you were referring too) and creates a closed environment. No O2 exposure during dry hopping! I'm pretty excited for them to finally release these.

 

[marjen]

e! I've built a hop cannon to use on the 1.5" tri-clover port that I plan to post up soon. That would eliminate the need to remove the larger clamp and chiller coil (I assume that was what you were referring too) and creates a closed environment. No O2 exposure during dry hopping! I'm pretty excited for them to finally release these.

Please let me know more! I have been wondering why no one has created a way to dry hop without adding O2. I do only NEIPAs and it's so important to keep oxygen away. I was planning on using that port for blow off and forced transfers but interested to see what you do.

 

[brewmeister13]

Here you go: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=7986396#post7986396

 

[Yesfan]

What is the difference between the SS Brewtech regular and BME Chronicals?


I do the occasional 10 gallon batches and my basement bar stays in the mid to high 60s year around, so I thought a conical may be worth considering. A few questions I have......

1) Is the extra $100 worth going from 14G to 1/2BBL? The reason why I ask is I do have a 15G corny keg, but my system is limited to 10G batches (full volume boils). Anything wrong with doing a partial boil for 15G batches and then topping up to 15G in a conical?

2) Could I do 10G batches in a 1/2BBL conical or is that going to be to much head space.

3) How important is the sampling valve? The BMEs are a bit more for the same gallon version just to have that. I know there's a cooling coil with the BME version too, but I don't think (or desire) to sink more money for a chilling system. I guess lagers could change that since they need lower temps, but I've been happy with the ales I've made the last 5 years.

4) For those who have them, can you use the casters with the leg extensions and shelf? This would allow me to have a blow off container and wheel the fermenter over to my keezer to transfer to my 15G corny.

5) Would you buy a 1/2bbl conical or spend less for a 20G kettle to do full volume 15G batches? I've thought about another Spike kettle to replace the Concord I have now, so thought I would ask.

Sorry if these seem like dumb questions. I'm just wanting to know more about whether this is worth getting or if I should apply the brewery funds to something more practical. Thanks.

 

[brewmeister13]

What is the difference between the SS Brewtech regular and BME Chronicals?

The main differences are the sanitary butterfly valves on the BME vs the ball valves on the regular, the sample valve and the chilling coil.

1) Is the extra $100 worth going from 14G to 1/2BBL? The reason why I ask is I do have a 15G corny keg, but my system is limited to 10G batches (full volume boils). Anything wrong with doing a partial boil for 15G batches and then topping up to 15G in a conical?

Depends on what you are brewing an your goals. If you do a partial boil IPA you will probably find hop aroma and flavor lacking, but if you like light lagers it shouldn't be an issue. Personally, I'd stick with the size you are able to brew and keep things as simple as possible, but that is me.

2) Could I do 10G batches in a 1/2BBL conical or is that going to be to much head space.

You could. Head space isn't the issue. The main thing to look at what level is the temperature probe located. If it isn't in the wort/beer it won't regulate temperature very well.

3) How important is the sampling valve? The BMEs are a bit more for the same gallon version just to have that. I know there's a cooling coil with the BME version too, but I don't think (or desire) to sink more money for a chilling system. I guess lagers could change that since they need lower temps, but I've been happy with the ales I've made the last 5 years.

I really like the idea of the sampling valve, but I think the biggest gain from the regular conical to the BME are the butterfly valves. I'm not a huge fan of the chiller coil inside the conical either. I plan to use a standup freezer to regulate temperatures and it would just be extra cleaning/places for bacteria to hide for me. That's one reason I'm pretty much sold on the Spike conical when it comes out.

5) Would you buy a 1/2bbl conical or spend less for a 20G kettle to do full volume 15G batches? I've thought about another Spike kettle to replace the Concord I have now, so thought I would ask.

I'm not sure I quite fully follow this question (if you do 15 gallon batches, wouldn't you need a ½bbl conical as well?), but if I were doing 15 gallon batches I would want to do a full boil. I'd get the conical I wanted first, so long as volumes worked for 10 gallon batches and then get the larger boil kettle down the road to increase volume. Also, for 15 gallon batch, wouldn't you want something with a bit more room? You could cram 18-19 gallons of wort into a 20 gallon pot, but I've always like a bit of room to avoid boil over.

Hope that is of some help to you.

 

[Dcpcooks]

I am looking at these, but have a few concerns. I would still like a larger fermenter for one. And the 2nd thing is concern that the trub would extent past the spigot. I add a lot of hops. I usually have about 1 gallon of true in my carboys. Worried that the bottom of the BME Is not big enough to accommodate that. With a conical that has a true port I could drop the true first, plus then collect the yeast. I do kind of like the idea of split batch ability but its not a driving factor.
Additionally 1 14g conical would be close to 2 7 gallon brew buckets.

I would say at this point. I am considering in following order.

1. Spike 14g
2. SS BT 14g
3.(2) SS BT BME Brewbuckets
4. Speidel 15.9 gallon fermenter.

My last batch was a 12 oz dry hop on an IPA. It's pretty straight forward. Ferment out the beer and dump the yeast out. Then I dry hop for three days, drop a little of the hops out and dry hop again. After three days I crash to 30 for 24-48 hours. You may or may not need to dump a little more hops to get it below the racking arm. All in I lose about 1/2 a gallon of beer after the dump on a 1/2 conical. So I usually brew to 15.6 gallons to get my 15 gallons into a keg.

I use a little co2 to push the trub and prevent o2 from getting in. I also use it to push the beer to kegs. Hops don't really clog up stuff. I use the racking port for samples.

 

[patthebrewer]

Ditto on the fact that a ss conical is not going to brew better beer that plastic or glass. This is coming from a guy who brews in a ss conical/unitank. One of the advantages to brewing in this type of vessel is everything comes a part easily so you can clean it.....the down side is that EVERYTHING comes apart so you are GOING to be cleaning a lot of parts Sometimes I miss glass....sigh.....

 

[Yesfan]

.........I'm not sure I quite fully follow this question (if you do 15 gallon batches, wouldn't you need a ½bbl conical as well?), but if I were doing 15 gallon batches I would want to do a full boil. I'd get the conical I wanted first, so long as volumes worked for 10 gallon batches and then get the larger boil kettle down the road to increase volume. Also, for 15 gallon batch, wouldn't you want something with a bit more room? You could cram 18-19 gallons of wort into a 20 gallon pot, but I've always like a bit of room to avoid boil over.

Hope that is of some help to you.

I have a 15G corny keg, so I was wondering which is the better way to spend money down the road:

1) buy a 20G kettle to do full volume 15G boils and just divide up the wort to three 6G carboys, or

2) buy a 1/2BBL conical, and do 15G partial boils in my current 15G boil kettle. Top up the conical to 15G like I would back in my noob days of brewing partial boils with a 5G kettle.



EDIT: Oh, and yes your last reply helped out a lot. Thanks!

 

[johnwpowell]

I have ss brewtech chronical custom modified to bme, brewbucket and glycol chiller. Be prepared to spend $$ on temp control if you go with a conical, especially if you have multiple fermenters. They don't fit easily in upright fridges and freezers. You really will want the glycol because you'll soon get sick of changing ice with the ftss and forget the cooler with ice if you travel. I think the simplest approach is a glass carboy with ice chest temperature controller and fermwrap heater, but I like the SS Brewtech as it makes me feel just a little like a pro brewer. I also like being able to dump the junk in the bottom of the fermenter and do completely closed pressure transfers to my keg. For what its worth here's a pic of my setup (brewbucket not hooked up).

 

[Dcpcooks]

I have a 15G corny keg, so I was wondering which is the better way to spend money down the road:

1) buy a 20G kettle to do full volume 15G boils and just divide up the wort to three 6G carboys, or

2) buy a 1/2BBL conical, and do 15G partial boils in my current 15G boil kettle. Top up the conical to 15G like I would back in my noob days of brewing partial boils with a 5G kettle.



EDIT: Oh, and yes your last reply helped out a lot. Thanks!

You'd be very hard pressed to get a 15 gallon batch boiled in a 20 gallon pot. I routinely collect 20.75-22 gallons for a 15 gallon batch.

 

[Schreiner]

You'd be very hard pressed to get a 15 gallon batch boiled in a 20 gallon pot. I routinely collect 20.75-22 gallons for a 15 gallon batch.

Then you have one hell of a high boil off rate!

 

[madscientist451]

The Fermentasaurus was recently discussed on Home Brew Talk:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=626411

It features closed transfer, you can get a racking arm, is relatively low priced, but has an odd capacity, about 8 gallons.
Its supposed to be available in the US this summer.
The Australia price is less than $100. No word yet on the US price.
You'd have to get an upright freezer for temperature control or figure something else out.
Compared to a stainless conical, you could probably get two of these and a freezer.
There are several you tube videos featuring the Fermentasarus.

 

[marjen]

Hmm Fermentasaurus looks good. There was also another one out of NZ that has not quite made it to the US yet.

Still leaning towards the Spike at the moment.

 

[Yesfan]

Then you have one hell of a high boil off rate!

That's what I was thinking. 5.75-7G of loss to evaporation seems too much. On 10 gallon batches I'm losing about 1.25G to evaporation.

If that's the case, I would rather save the water and just top off using my current setup (15G kettles).

 

[jabba11]

I have a 14 gallon ss BME Chronical (with ftss). Been very happy with it. I don't find it harder to clean really than glass or plastic. I do not have glycol and use the ice chest. I will say you cant relaly set it and forget it like glycol. You have to change ice. That said I regularly do lagers in it at 53 and as low as 50 and it will hold that and I change the ice (frozen gallon containers with water in them) once a day. WIth the leg extension and casters you almost NEED the shelf to hold it all together. Really they shouldn't be sold separately at all if you ask me.

 

[Yesfan]

Do the SS Chronicals have welded fittings for the valves (butterfly or ball) or are they weldless?

 

[Dcpcooks]

Sanitary to butterfly or sanitary to ball valve. Depending on the model. The thermo well is weldless. The

 

[Bowtiebrewery]

If you are looking for a SS Conical and are willing to wait (albeit an unknown amount of time) Spike has everything you would want with all welded fittings and butterfly valves. Check out their website. www.Spikebrewing.com They were supposed to release the Conicals back in December, then they got delayed to March, then to end of April, and now we are in May....

But. they did recently expand their operations so its likely because of that for the delays...

 

[jabba11]

the sampling port and the attachments for the coil are also weldless. Ive had mine over a year. Never leaked, never had a problem cleaning it fwiw before someone chimes in about how horrible that is.