EZ method for reusing yeast

[FunkedOut]

I've got a plan to reuse yeast but not sure if it's a good one.
Please, throw darts; let me know if I'm setting up for disaster.

I've got a porter fermenting in a bucket with US-05.
Plan is, the day I rack it into a keg, I brew another porter and rack it right into the same bucket without cleaning out.

Autosiphon in and out of bucket.
Of course, siphon would be sanitized, but I wasn't planning on cleaning the bucket or the stuff on the bottom.

What are your thoughts?
Thanks in advance.

 

[Morrey]

I've got a plan to reuse yeast but not sure if it's a good one.
Please, throw darts; let me know if I'm setting up for disaster.

I've got a porter fermenting in a bucket with US-05.
Plan is, the day I rack it into a keg, I brew another porter and rack it right into the same bucket without cleaning out.

Autosiphon in and out of bucket.
Of course, siphon would be sanitized, but I wasn't planning on cleaning the bucket or the stuff on the bottom.

What are your thoughts?
Thanks in advance.

This has been done many times and is sometimes called pitching direct on the yeast cake.

I usually swirl the cake into suspension, rack the fresh, cooled wort into the fermenter directly into the suspended yeast and stir to mix. I use an O2 stone so I oxygenate at this point.

Yes, this can work just be careful (as always) with your sanitation methods.

 

[owmatooth]

i do this with my cider- rack finished cider to keg, pour 5 more gallons of juice on top of yeast cake. works great.

if you need a rest between, I just swirl the cake into suspension and then pour it into 3-4 mason jars, screw on the lid and toss them in the fridge. then when i need them i bring them to room temp and pitch them into my next beer. the amount of residual beer in the suspension is not enough to make me worry about matching styles. They take off with the fermentation in much less time than the direct pitch liquid pack (wyeast) that they started as, so cell count must be higher.

I tend to stick to about 3-4 different ale yeasts, so my library is limited, but i've got enough of each that i haven't had to buy new yeast in the past half dozen brews. I may be cheap, but $6.99 each time saved makes me smile.

 

[Yooper]

You can do that, but it's almost always a severe overpitch.

The easiest way is to just sanitize a couple of jars, and swirl your yeast cake around and pour it into the sanitized jars. Then you have yeast for about 4 more batches. It will be a more appropriate size, plus you'll have enough yeast for a supply for quite a while in the next couple of months, too.

Clean and sanitize your fermenter, like you always do, and just take one of those jars out of the fridge when it's time to pitch your yeast.

I have about 6 types of yeast saved that way right now in my fridge- it saves a lot of money for me (I almost always use liquid yeast strains) and I always have yeast on hand.

 

[z-bob]

If you're fermenting in a bucket with ale yeast, you can skim clean yeast off the top into a mason jar. Add a little water to help knock down the foam, and put it in the fridge. When it's cold, slosh it around a bit. The yeast will settle to the bottom.

I did this recently with K-97 (German ale yeast) and pitched it about a month later; the lag time was only a couple of hours. IMHO, top-cropping the yeast is the main advantage to fermenting in a bucket instead of a carboy.

 

[Big Monk]

Just remember to oxygenate/aerate. That slurry will be Oxygen deprived.

 

[FunkedOut]

I really appreciate the replies, everybody. They have given me a lot of points to go read about.

The current porter is a 1.052 OG / 1.011 FG (5.4% ABV).
The next batch is a 1.065 OG / 1.018 FG (6.2% ABV).

I have not read much about reusing yeast, so apologies for my ignorance.
If I were to go the yeast cake route, sounds like it would be wise to remove 2/3rds of the cake before racking the new batch in? How bad are the effects of the severe overpitch if I leave the entire cake in?

If I were to go the top crop route, I may have missed the train. I am on day 4 of this fermentation. What I have read about top crop these last couple of days, leads to believe I should've removed the krausen after 24 hours and top crop after 48 hours. How flexible is that rule?

This can quickly deviate from the EZ method I had in mind. I don't want to work too hard for $3.50.

 

[owmatooth]

How bad are the effects of the severe overpitch if I leave the entire cake in?

I can't imagine any issue with too much yeast, especially if it involves less effort.

 

[Oldforester]

The only time I did that the fermentation was so fast and furious stuff went everywhere. A really big mess. I will second what Yooper advised.

 

[seabrew8]

It works i usually harvest 2-3 mason jars of slurry instead.

 

[FunkedOut]

I'm going to go ahead and put the cake into jars instead.
With a $3.50 insurance plan, in the form of a fresh pack; just in case.

Thanks for all the help. It really made the research much quicker and to the point.

 

[FunkedOut]

I cold crashed to fine with gelatin, and took a reading.
The yeast were 4 points shy on this batch.
No off flavors at all. This beer tastes great, even flat!

Estimated: 1.052 OG / 1.011 FG (5.4% ABV)
Measured: 1.052 OG / 1.015 FG (4.9% ABV)

Maybe I should let this batch pass, rehydrate a fresh pack in the next batch and top crop that one.
The last batch attenuated more than expected.
I'd hate to farm low performers.

 

[eastoak]

I can't imagine any issue with too much yeast, especially if it involves less effort.

Interesting experiment
http://brulosophy.com/2016/11/07/yeast-pitch-rate-pt-5-underpitch-vs-overpitch-in-a-lager-exbeeriment-results/

 

[owmatooth]

Interesting experiment
http://brulosophy.com/2016/11/07/ye...-vs-overpitch-in-a-lager-exbeeriment-results/

thanks, that about proves that idea. Good article. Easy read with pictures for those who are hesitant.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Yeah that works apparently. I've heard of people actually brewing a small to medium sized beer as a kind of yeast starter for a really big beer in fact. Brulosophy actually did an XBMT on this, and no one could tell the difference between a beer fermented on a yeast cake and one that was pitched with new yeast, so apparently there's no noticeable negative impact on the beer either.

I have been harvesting yeast for a little while now. It's not really about saving money for me so much as convenience. My nearest LHBS is almost 2 hours away, and while I can order it online, continually harvesting means I always have a few pints of yeast on hand should I decide I need to brew something. The amount you get in a jar will still be a mild overpitch probably. Don't tell anyone, but I think I actually prefer a slight overpitch. It makes fermentations faster, decreases lag time, and reduces the pressure on the yeast to reproduce, which in turn reduces the off-flavor compounds the yeast produce.

 

[ChuckCollins]

How long can you store it Yooper ??

 

[bradleypariah]

The yeast were 4 points shy on this batch. [...]
Estimated: 1.052 OG / 1.011 FG (5.4% ABV)
Measured: 1.052 OG / 1.015 FG (4.9% ABV)
[...]I'd hate to farm low performers.

Are you an all-grain brewer? Your final gravity could simply be that the grain was mashed a few degrees hotter. Even when using extract, I'd assume there are a lot of variables that could cause your FG to be different between two similar recipes. Don't let me stop you from using fresh yeast, but if there are no off-flavors, I'd re-pitch that stuff.

The only reason to re-pitch yeast is to save a few dollars per batch, and I think those of us that do it are secretly hoping we'll wind up with a mutation that makes our "house strain" make our beers taste out of this world. I'd keep going until I noticed something off. From my little experience, and from what I've heard, if you're being careful, if something unwanted begins to develop, the change should be subtle on the first "off" batch, and it should still be drinkable. Some professional breweries are known to just keep re-pitching until they notice an off flavor. At worst they'd blend it with another batch.

Maybe my "R" in "RDWHAHB" is turned up too high.

 

[Yooper]

How long can you store it Yooper ??

I don't know how long for sure- every once in a while I look at them and if they are browning, or looking funny I toss them out. When I go to use them, I check the date (some are often a few months old), and give them the sniff test. They usually perform just fine, and I've kept them probably too long but it's worked well. Anything that smelled wrong, I've tossed.

 

[FunkedOut]

Are you an all-grain brewer? Your final gravity could simply be that the grain was mashed a few degrees hotter. Even when using extract, I'd assume there are a lot of variables that could cause your FG to be different between two similar recipes. Don't let me stop you from using fresh yeast, but if there are no off-flavors, I'd re-pitch that stuff.

The only reason to re-pitch yeast is to save a few dollars per batch, and I think those of use that do it are secretly hoping we'll wind up with a mutation that makes our "house strain" make our beers taste out of this world. I'd keep going until I noticed something off. From my little experience, and from what I've heard, if you're being careful, if something unwanted begins to develop, the change should be subtle on the first "off" batch, and it should still be drinkable. Some professional breweries are known to just keep re-pitching until they notice an off flavor. At worst they'd blend it with another batch.

Maybe my "R" in "RDWHAHB" is turned up too high.

Good points.
I am all grain; BIAB.
And the thermometer I was using was really slow. It is certainly possible I added the grain when the was too hot.
I ended the 60min mash 5*F below the intended mash temp.

I've since gotten a fast thermometer and got some better insulation for the kettle/tun. The next batch only lost 3*F during the 60min mash.

 

[FunkedOut]

I ended up pitching fresh yeast. US-05 again, rehydrated.
Skimmed and discarded the first layer after 24 hours.
Just top cropped it tonight (48 hours).

I also swirled the bottom of the original primary and poured into jars.
Being a porter, it was all dark peanut butter color from the get go.
Tried my hand at washing/rinsing and was able to get a separate white yeast layer.

Nothing beats trying for learning.
Thanks for all the help.

 

[stylus1274]

For what it is worth, I re-pitched on top of an 05 batch just like you mention.

That next batch came out tasting like sh#t. Maybe it was over pitching. I don't know. But if I ever do it again I would do what Yooper suggests and portion off the yeast.

I can't confirm it but I think my error was too much yeast for the next batch.

 

[DeNomad]

I do this regularly with my preferred yeast. I saw a post here talking about $3.50 for a smack pack - I wish, it's about $9 Canadian per pack up here.

Anyway I agree with overpitching. My method is to run a yeast start calculation (Mr. Malty) for using slurry and see how many cups of yeast are recommended for my next beer. I eyeball how many cups of yeast/trub are in the carboy and dump the majority leaving approximately how much yeast was recommended for my next batch. When I am done brewing I pitch well oxygenated beer right on top of the slurry. I have only gone about 4 batches but I have noticed no off flavours this way. I don't particularly enjoy washing yeast or storing it - so I don't unless it's one that is hard to obtain.

Also I should mention I like to do a progression. Start with a small beer and use it as a starter for something with high OG. For instance brew a English Mild or a porter and then follow up with something big such as an Imperial Stout. This way you don't really need to waste time with a starter either since the small beer was your starter.

 

[MR2Aaron]

I've got a plan to reuse yeast but not sure if it's a good one.
Please, throw darts; let me know if I'm setting up for disaster.

I've got a porter fermenting in a bucket with US-05.
Plan is, the day I rack it into a keg, I brew another porter and rack it right into the same bucket without cleaning out.

Autosiphon in and out of bucket.
Of course, siphon would be sanitized, but I wasn't planning on cleaning the bucket or the stuff on the bottom.

What are your thoughts?
Thanks in advance.

I've done this a few times. It worked fine.

You can also store some of the yeast in a sanitized container in the refrigerator for a short while as well, if you're not planning to rack the old beer and brew new at the same time.

 

[Barley_McAle]

There's way more yeast than you need for one batch but you can pour the fresh wort right into the other one and it will work. Using a blowoff tube instead of those plastic bubblers will save you from the hyperactivity that will result. I've done it and it makes another delicious batch and plenty of yeast in the cake. I second what Yooper said, it would be better to save 4 batches of cake. Saves lots of loot. There are many threads about washing yeast and it's worthwhile because some of that trub can produce some off flavors after a few times around.

 

[Barley_McAle]

I have repitched several times without portioning the cake and it has always worked for me. I usually ferment with a liquid yeast and White Labs is my favorite. I have done that 4 times in a row with WLP090 and the beer from that is a sublime experience! It always comes out delicious.

 

[RichBenn]

I ended up pitching fresh yeast. US-05 again, rehydrated.
Skimmed and discarded the first layer after 24 hours.
Just top cropped it tonight (48 hours).

I also swirled the bottom of the original primary and poured into jars.
Being a porter, it was all dark peanut butter color from the get go.
Tried my hand at washing/rinsing and was able to get a separate white yeast layer.

Nothing beats trying for learning.
Thanks for all the help.

For US-05, I'm not certain it's worth saving, as it's so cheap and reliable. For liquid yeast, which is more expensive, YES!

 

[marksam1]

I agree with Yooper. I just normally save a 1/4 to 1/2 cup of yeast to re-pitch depending on OG. Instead of doing 4 jars I just follow the same procedure with the next batch and store in the fridge if not brewing that day. Don't know if those quantities are an overpitch or not.

 

[docrw]

There is really a much better way to do this. This is the proper method follow your initial fermentation to about 75 to 80% attenuation and transfer into secondary and The next beer on top of the secondary Yeast. This will be your most viable healthiest yeast, it will also lower the amount of used available so you can develop the proper taste profile while also removing the trub from the previous batch which Would be detrimental to the second beer that you do. Remember that pitching on top of a complete primary fermentation beer will leave a different hop profile and Many off flavors from the previous beer...