Dubbel w/ Acid Malt

[vernet1]

Hey everyone, first post. This is an experimental recipe. I brewed a very basic Dubbel w/ WLP500 that produced some great, refreshing plum flavor. I was thinking that'd be great w/ some tartness.

Here's my recipe. Please comment!

5 Gallon batch:

10 lb Pils
.75 lb Aromatic
.5 lb Carapils
.7 lb Special B
1.5 lb Acidulated Malt.

1 oz Tettnanger for 60 min.

WLP500

Thoughts? Is 1.5 lb of the acid malt enough/too much?

Thanks.

 

[motorneuron]

1.5 lbs of acid malt might be too much, but it depends on what you're going for. It looks like 1.5 lbs will be a bit more than 10%. I made a beer at only 6% acid malt where you can sort of feel the acidity as a freshness in the beer. Darker malts (or dark sugar) also decrease the beer's pH, so in combination, you might get more than you want.

You could use a smaller percentage of acidulated malt now and try to bring up the acidity later with fruit or straight food-grade acid, whether lactic or citric.

Another small note--for a dubbel, you might consider adding some dark candy syrup to bring up the dark fruit flavors. That is the traditional way. Special B is good too, but it has a somewhat different kind of flavor.

 

[vernet1]

1.5 lbs of acid malt might be too much, but it depends on what you're going for. It looks like 1.5 lbs will be a bit more than 10%. I made a beer at only 6% acid malt where you can sort of feel the acidity as a freshness in the beer. Darker malts (or dark sugar) also decrease the beer's pH, so in combination, you might get more than you want.

You could use a smaller percentage of acidulated malt now and try to bring up the acidity later with fruit or straight food-grade acid, whether lactic or citric.

Another small note--for a dubbel, you might consider adding some dark candy syrup to bring up the dark fruit flavors. That is the traditional way. Special B is good too, but it has a somewhat different kind of flavor.

Thanks. That's interesting about the freshness quality. I'm going for puckery tang, but one that works with the yeast flavor, not against it. Any idea how much the PH will be pushed down by the special B and Aroma?

In my last Dubbel I used dark sugar and really enjoyed it. Will stick with the Special B for this round since I've not yet used it.

I'll post later

 

[vernet1]

1.5 lbs of acid malt might be too much, but it depends on what you're going for. It looks like 1.5 lbs will be a bit more than 10%. I made a beer at only 6% acid malt where you can sort of feel the acidity as a freshness in the beer. Darker malts (or dark sugar) also decrease the beer's pH, so in combination, you might get more than you want.

You could use a smaller percentage of acidulated malt now and try to bring up the acidity later with fruit or straight food-grade acid, whether lactic or citric.

Another small note--for a dubbel, you might consider adding some dark candy syrup to bring up the dark fruit flavors. That is the traditional way. Special B is good too, but it has a somewhat different kind of flavor.

Thanks. That's interesting about the freshness quality. I'm going for puckery tang, but one that works with the yeast flavor, not against it. Any idea how much the PH will be pushed down by the special B and Aroma?

In my last Dubbel I used dark sugar and really enjoyed it. Will stick with the Special B for this round since I've not yet used it.

 

[vernet1]

Also, for anyone who has used acid malt to create sourness, has using it effected the aging schedule?

 

[vernet1]

Buuuuhler? Buuuuuhler?

 

[Bearfoot]

10% acid malt will throw your mash pH out of the acceptable range; resulting in poor / flat malt flavors that are essential to the style and possible fermentation issues.

I would look into https://byo.com/all-grain-brewing/item/1691-sour-mashing-techniques to get what you're looking for. Acid malt is more of a subtle thing than a souring agent.

 

[Bearfoot]

1

 

[vernet1]

10% acid malt will throw your mash pH out of the acceptable range; resulting in poor / flat malt flavors that are essential to the style and possible fermentation issues.

I would look into https://byo.com/all-grain-brewing/item/1691-sour-mashing-techniques to get what you're looking for. Acid malt is more of a subtle thing than a souring agent.

That is good to know about the pH... hm...

Weyermann says the malt can be used effectively as a souring agent:

"Weyermann Acidulated Malt is produced by using lactic acid, which is generated by on grain natural occurring lactic bacteria. Therefore Acidulated Malt is also a wonderful possibility to produce beer styles with a typical “sourish” character like “Berliner Weisse”.

To reach the “sourish” character 8% of Acidulated malt are a perfect rate. In my recipe there are also recommendations for Fermentis Yeast strains for an authentic aroma and flavour profile."

How would one use this, but not get poor mash flavors?

 

[vernet1]

Also, when sour mashing, isn't the ph still going to be lowered by the addition of the sour mash? Am I missing something?

 

[Bearfoot]

No you're correct about the mash...dubbel is just tricky as a malt-forward beer. I think a sour mash would ruin the complexity and depth necessary for the style...but then again you could come up with something great so why not give it a shot?

 

[vernet1]

Just wanted to update; I kegged this the other day and was unpleasantly surprised to taste zero sourness or tartness. The flavor is that of a standard Dubbel. Hm.

 

[motorneuron]

In my experience it's not always obvious whether a beer is sour until it's carbed. Uncarbonated beer is less sour than carbonated beer, since it's missing carbonic acid (the reason seltzer is sour) from dissolved CO2. So the first piece of advice is, wait until it carbs up to decide.

The other thing you can do is dose it with lactic (or citric, or acetic, or malic) acid. Lactic is what you'd mostly have in a typical sour beer, and it's what you get from acid malt. So you can use a small amount of food-grade lactic acid to bring up the sourness.

Citric and acetic both give a different taste. Some acetic acid (vinegar) is present in very sour beers, like lambic, but it has a harsh presence in any quantity. Citric acid is found in a lot of fruit; so is malic acid, but citric acid is much easier to find in my experience.