What's everyone's experiences with brewing for volume?

[jonny24]

I'm going to lead off with my own experiences, but I'm posting with the hopes that this spurs some discussion from everyone about how they brew for volume.

Background: I'm getting married in August, and I'm planning on serving my light lager recipe during dinner and possibly throughout the evening (still working out liquor license stuff). If restrictions let up by then our guest list is 180 people, so I've been working on high-volume brew days in preparation.

Figured I'd share what I've worked out, and see what other methods people are using to get the most out of their systems.

My setup: 48qt cooler MT, one 10 gallon Spike HLT/BK, 1 Avantco induction burner, 4 glass + plastics carboys, 8 kegs, 1 serving fridge (fit 4 kegs), 1 ferm/lagering chamber (fits 5).

Limits and effects:
-10 gallon kettle means 5 gallon boils (6.57-7 in, 5.5gal into the fermenter)
-One of the biggest is that having only one burner/kettle, I can't heat strike or sparge water while I'm boiling.
-I can fit 20lbs + 8 gallons in my MT, perfect for a double batch. I can fit up to 30lbs with somewhat less water
-Fermenor space - easily and cheaply expanded. I experimented with high-gravity fermenting, diluting at kegging, but quickly decided to just get more fermenters as needed.
-Temperature control - I only have the one controlled freezer, originally built as a ferm chamber. My dedication to lagering these beers means I have gone with warm-fermenting yeasts that can handle my mid-60's ambient basement temps.
-Kegs/Keg lagering/ Keg serving space - I find my lager is best with at least 3 weeks of lagering, and I like to carbonate for at least one of those weeks. Fridge space is the most difficult and expensive thing to expand, which means at most a 4-keg/week cycle through the serving fridge. The actual choke point is the lagering fridge, it can fit 4 kegs but a 2 week lagering period prevents the 4-keg/week cycle, meaning either less throughput or compromising lagering time.

Note - no way would I ever need to keep up with this kind of production, it's very much a hypothetical limit.

There are various ways one could approach brewing for volume and which makes the most sense will depend on a particular setup, what aspects a brewer is willing to change to accommodate it, and their own personal circumstances (space, money time, preferences).

My own variations:
- Brewing single batches more often. Not very efficient - it generally takes me about 5 hours to brew a single batch.

- Double batch - specifically, 2x volume for mash and sparge, 2x separate boils. Pros: only minor added time to heat up more water, no need for another vessel to heat up strike water at the same time as brewing. Cons - The second batch sits around in buckets while the first boils. However, since in my case it is a dry lager, not terrible. For true consistency, I could blend both after the boil. Takes about 7 hours.

- Triple batch, from a single mash and 2 boils. 3x the grain, 2x the water for mash and sparge, 2 boils that are 1.5x the gravity, diluted with water when transferring to the fermentor. Pros - minor added time vs a double batch (more water to heat, time spent blending). Cons - Efficiency suffers, and the tun is pretty maxed, so it's hard to make up for with extra grain, and it's hard to mash in/otherwise handle when that full. I only did this twice, but I want to say around 8 hours. Even though it works to out a low hours/batch, the extra finicking around with the extra full mash tun and blending made was not that enjoyable. I may revisit this, not sure. Maybe depending on how many open fermentors are available.

- Quad batch - basically 2x double batches, back to back. I just did this for the first time today, and it took exactly 12 hours. I still have work to do, the last batch is chilled but still in the kettle, my last fermentor is oxy-soaking overnight so it's not available yet, but this could be fixed on future brew days. The first 2x grain was milled last night, the second 2x grain was milled during one of the boils. 3 hours a batch is pretty good, and it is simple compared to the triple batch, I had time to have breaks and make lunch or watch tv. There was some efficiency gained by getting the mash for round two started during the boil, for which had to use a second big stock pot I use for storing starsan usually, and our spaghetti pot on the kitchen stove upstairs.

Other things I could have done:

What many people have done, buy a bigger kettle. Easy way to make a "single batch" produce twice as much beer. However, I do continue to brew 5gal batches of many other ciders, and my goal was to upscale without new equipment. I'm happy with what I have.
Another route, which I cobbled together toady, is having a separate Hot Liquor Tanks and Brew Kettles - 2 pots, 2 burners. Not sure about this yet - I brew with on induction burner on my work bench in the basement, and don't really want to buy another burner and wire another plug for it. Maybe I'll reconsider if I end up using the kitchen stove too often.
If someone was more limited on space, I could see high gravity brewing being a more attractive option, if you diluted at packaging. I did this once before I bought another fermentor, but it was kind of messy and hard to get volumes and ratios correct while splashing around with an auto-siphon, trying not suck up yeast. For those with more sophisticated transferring methods, this may not be a concern.
I could just bulk-brew ales instead of lagers, and the whole lagering/kegging schedule wouldn't even be a factor. The brew-day considerations would all be the same.

As mentioned, I do just brew single batches often as well, it's not all just mass-lager production. I just have fun pretending to be a mini 18-century Heineken or Budweiser, gradually increasing and optimising a brewery operation. Only instead being a business and cost/profits drive growth and decision making, as a hobbyist I'm limited by spare time / effort /required / limited growth ceiling - I'm not actually trying to sell as much beer as possible!

How do you guys approach this, if at all?

 

[NSMikeD]

I’d contact a local micro and contract them to brew your recipe under your supervision and assistance. That solves any licensing and liability issues and if this is your first marriage, you might not appreciate yet the storm that will approach as you get closer to august. Unexpected fires will need your attention.

You can make a separate brew or two more in line with your brew house capabilities just for pre wedding festivities like the rehearsal dinner etc.

 

[madscientist451]

Not everyone likes home brew, and not everyone likes light lager, and a wedding is supposed to be a celebration that is fun for everyone. So don't worry, have a homebrew, and buy a keg of Coor's light AND serve your homebrew, make some lager and change it up and make a porter or stout or something else as well. If you don't make IPA's buy a commercial keg of that for the mix.
Freezers got scarce during Covid, but they are plentiful and cheap right now, so maybe its a good time to add a dedicated laagering freezer to your line up.
If you want to go to 10 gallon batches, maybe now is a good time get some more gear, all you really need is a keggle and another burner. Look on your local craigslist or FB marketplace, there's always someone selling used stuff.
If you are having your wedding at a business that has a liquor license, you most likely would not be allowed to bring your own alcohol.

 

[hottpeper13]

I think fermenting with some of the Kveiks would shorten your time in the fermenter and the Lutra one is super clean. I have done 2 batches of lite blonde beers with it at 68* and wow , the hop flavors really come thru and on the 17 IBU one was lager like , just not as malty. Will be pitching it today on a 100 IBU IPA at 76*.

 

[BrewZer]

Don't know where you are, but some areas have Brew On Premises you can use to make large batches.

 

[bkboiler]

A buddies wedding he had a 5g keg of homebrew stout and a bunch of other bottled choices. I had a couple pints of the stout (not driving), and then branched out to other choices.
At my wedding we had 6 cases of beer for 100 people plus red, white wine and champagne.
We had roughly 3 cases of beer leftover.

Thus my recommendation would be 3 kegs: a light lager, a hoppy pale ale, and a porter. I'd brew the light lager first and see if u can lager it in a friend's fridge that has spare room.

Don't forget red, white wine, champagne and non-alcoholic sparkling apple cider!

 

[jonny24]

Some good thoughts there, but the wedding part was really only incidental to my interest in various techniques to "brew more", and make the most out of any given system.

 

[day_trippr]

Ah, well then, that's different I am solidly in the camp of maximizing the volume of kegged beer for the brew day's effort. I want 10 gallons in the keg.

I built my current 3v2p single tier 10 gallon batch rig a handful of years ago, but even having brewed almost 1000 gallons on it to date, I'm still tweaking things wrt packaged volume. I rely on Beersmith and the equipment profile I've refined over the years to dial in recipes so I end up with as close to 10 gallons in a pair of corny kegs as possible without "going over".

And that was working fine, until the "New England IPA" came around, and let's be frank, Beersmith has literally zero notion what massive hop additions both in the kettle and the fermenter do to net beer in the keg. And what happened was I ended up with 9 gallons of beer in a pair of kegs - a 10% undershoot for the brew day effort. No bueno!

I learned the only way do deal with that was to generate a set of equipment profiles, one for "low hopped", one for "middle hopped", and the last for "high hopped" recipes, with each assuming wort and beer losses commensurate with the hop masses. And it's worked a treat: I kegged a batch two weeks ago that netted 9.98 gallons and another last week that netted out to 10.02 gallons.

Before I was working on intuition and tbh missed the net a few times by as much as a gallon. Now I can pretty much deal without even thinking - as long as I choose the right profile for a recipe everything should just follow...

Cheers!

 

[bkboiler]

Monday I plan to do a double batch.

Iiiiiif I got a bazooka screen and ball valve to convert my large cooler then I could heat enough strike water to brew 4 batches at once, altho honestly I don't consume that much and it's probably more work to brew four batches at once than to brew two double batches considering all the extra equipment I would have to take out and clean.

This is what Monday is gonna look like:
5 gal pale and 2.5 gal porter
1. Heating strike water for both in upper kettle of my 2v system
2. Mash pale ale at 1.25 qt /lb in lower kettle, and same ratio using BIAB in my spare 4 gal induction pot /burner
3. heat sparge water in upper kettle for both beers
4. Sparge / drain
5. Boil 5 gal beer in upper kettle and 2.5 gal beer on induction burner.

 

[Dgallo]

Some good thoughts there, but the wedding part was really only incidental to my interest in various techniques to "brew more", and make the most out of any given system.

Have you ever considered using dme for a portion of your base? This will greatly increase your volume. Plan for the most volume you can collect/boil in the kettle. Once you’ve maxed out your mashtun, you can sparge with more water and then make up the gravity with dme.

I do this when doing split batch experiments with bigger gravity beers. I have a 10 g iglo mashtun but a 30 g kettle. Since my mashtun is too small for a 12 gallon batch I will Mash 60% of the Gravity points which include all specialty grains(maxing it’s capacity out) then will over sparge to get the right water volume and then will use dme for the remaining 40% of gravity points. This allows me to produce two beers without having to double batch and extend my brew day

 

[madscientist451]

it generally takes me about 5 hours to brew a single batch.

Some good thoughts there, but the wedding part was really only incidental to my interest in various techniques to "brew more", and make the most out of any given system.

Go to BIAB, pull the bag after 30-40 minutes and get the boil going. You should be able to get a batch done in 3 hours. Even if you do a full 60 minute mash, you'll shorten your brew day by going to BIAB. A variation of this would be to BIAB in your kettle and use your cooler for a dunk sparge, heating the sparge water on your kitchen stove while the mash is going.
I do 5 gallon batches in an 8 gallon kettle, so you should be able to brew 7 gallons of high gravity wort and dilute it to 10 gallons.

 

[Barbarossa]

Just another idea.

Mash 15/20#, collect the wort and boil/adjust to desired gravity.

Dunk sparge, collect and make another lighter beer.

 

[dwhite60]

I'm with NSMikeD, I'd talk to a local brewery about doing it. You'll pay more but it would eliminate a LOT of headaches.

 

[jonny24]

And that was working fine, until the "New England IPA" came around, and let's be frank, Beersmith has literally zero notion what massive hop additions both in the kettle and the fermenter do to net beer in the keg. And what happened was I ended up with 9 gallons of beer in a pair of kegs - a 10% undershoot for the brew day effort. No bueno!

I learned the only way do deal with that was to generate a set of equipment profiles, one for "low hopped", one for "middle hopped", and the last for "high hopped" recipes, with each assuming wort and beer losses commensurate with the hop masses. And it's worked a treat: I kegged a batch two weeks ago that netted 9.98 gallons and another last week that netted out to 10.02 gallons.

Before I was working on intuition and tbh missed the net a few times by as much as a gallon. Now I can pretty much deal without even thinking - as long as I choose the right profile for a recipe everything should just follow...

Cheers!

Excellent points, I didn't think about hop losses at all. I typically don't brew anything excessively hoppy, 90% of my batches only have 1-2oz in them. Definitely something to consider.
I don't use beersmith, but I keep a running log in Excel to track grain absorption and boiloff numbers to help predict volumes. I've been thinking I need to have separate averages for single/multiple batches, since the efficiencies do vary. Maybe need to add a hop variable as well.

Monday I plan to do a double batch.

Iiiiiif I got a bazooka screen and ball valve to convert my large cooler then I could heat enough strike water to brew 4 batches at once, altho honestly I don't consume that much and it's probably more work to brew four batches at once than to brew two double batches considering all the extra equipment I would have to take out and clean.

This is what Monday is gonna look like:
5 gal pale and 2.5 gal porter
1. Heating strike water for both in upper kettle of my 2v system
2. Mash pale ale at 1.25 qt /lb in lower kettle, and same ratio using BIAB in my spare 4 gal induction pot /burner
3. heat sparge water in upper kettle for both beers
4. Sparge / drain
5. Boil 5 gal beer in upper kettle and 2.5 gal beer on induction burner.

On the bolded part - I think you're right, that was similar to my experience with doing a triple vs just doing a double then a single.

One thing I've done in the past when doing two recipes like your plan, is to brew the light coloured beer first, then add fresh base + specialty malts for the darker beer straight on top of the old grain and re-mash. Really max the efficiency out of the original grains, although how much you get is not exactly predictable.

Have you ever considered using dme for a portion of your base? This will greatly increase your volume. Plan for the most volume you can collect/boil in the kettle. Once you’ve maxed out your mashtun, you can sparge with more water and then make up the gravity with dme.

I do this when doing split batch experiments with bigger gravity beers. I have a 10 g iglo mashtun but a 30 g kettle. Since my mashtun is too small for a 12 gallon batch I will Mash 60% of the Gravity points which include all specialty grains(maxing it’s capacity out) then will over sparge to get the right water volume and then will use dme for the remaining 40% of gravity points. This allows me to produce two beers without having to double batch and extend my brew day

Another very good thought! TBH I kind of forgot about extract an an option, I'll have to look into that. Do you follow 60/40 every time, or adjust as needed?

Go to BIAB, pull the bag after 30-40 minutes and get the boil going. You should be able to get a batch done in 3 hours. Even if you do a full 60 minute mash, you'll shorten your brew day by going to BIAB. A variation of this would be to BIAB in your kettle and use your cooler for a dunk sparge, heating the sparge water on your kitchen stove while the mash is going.
I do 5 gallon batches in an 8 gallon kettle, so you should be able to brew 7 gallons of high gravity wort and dilute it to 10 gallons.

Interesting - by essentially flipping the roles of my cooler and kettle, I would gain the advantage of being able to start heating at the same time I start sparging, rather than waiting for the first running to finish so that I can add the sparge water, which is what frees up the kettle. Right now I hold everything in buckets until the sparge water is out of the kettle. I could also maybe pre-load the cooler with hot water before the mash, eliminating the kitchen, but then again that would add time at the front end.

Lots of different approaches, I love it!

 

[Dgallo]

@jonny24

Definitely adjust as needed. I can really only fit 23lbs of grain in my mashtun abd that will drop my efficiency to about 65%. In 15 gallons that gives me around a 1.043-1.045. Then I’ll use dme for the remaining gravity points, so it’s dependent on my target og. Just remember to mash all specialty grains and with enough base malt to ensure enzymatic conversion

 

[bkboiler]

I ended up doing my simultaneous double batch (2.5g of porter and 5g of pale ale).
The 1800W induction burner ended up being more than sufficient for the smaller batch so the only equipment I really shared between the batches was the chiller. The 2.5 gal batch lagged behind by about 20 mins.

Big hop whirlpool on one batch, 7.5 gallons of two beers brewed in 9 hours including all cleanup and pitching. Not too bad considering my second brew on this new rig. Still fine tuning new process a bit...
I believe if I continue to fine tune I can get a double batch like this down to 6 hours (by fine tuning, sometimes I mean completely reconfiguring things... ). Lot of inefficiency in where I have the mash tun...going to move it up to be on level with the boil kettle.