DFH 120 minute clone

[Luckey37]

So I just finished my batch. My OG ended up at 1.158 and FG at 1.011 for 19% ABV. I tasted my hydro sample and was hit with a ton of sweetness up front. I have to assume its that way for everyone due to the amount of sugar added.

My question for those further along: Does this sweetness die out after dry hopping and some bulk aging while I force carb? Its almost to sweet at this point. Unfortunately, I never got ahold of any 120 before DFH quit selling in Indiana, so I can't compare to the real stuff. Any insight would be helpful!!

Thanks,
Luckey

 

[Brad1775]

Yeah.... I think I'm gonna re-pitch some other strain, like just distillers yeast. sad day.

 

[scottland]

So I just finished my batch. My OG ended up at 1.158 and FG at 1.011 for 19% ABV. I tasted my hydro sample and was hit with a ton of sweetness up front. I have to assume its that way for everyone due to the amount of sugar added.

Ya, it's a rather sweet, syrupy, almost candy-like beer. Carbonation helps cut through it.

 

[Firebat138]

i am officially inspired... Great job

 

[Brad1775]

Found out at my LHBS that distillers yeast kills all the flavors I've added!! So I am not doing that. I got another new batch of 7 day old Trappist high gravity, and I have cold crashed the secondary I made by transferring the beer off the old yeast/trub cake. I had made several 1000ml starters and find this beer to be taking it's sweeeeet time cleaning out during cold crashing. it's down to 46 degree Fahrenheit, and I have been rejuvinating the yeast cake I had in the bottom of primary. it's really starting to take off at 50-58 hours, and I finally feel there may have been merit to my actions, that is to start up a larger starter, and then oxygenate a starter/get it ready to handle the high alcohol (increase healthy cell count at 1.040, then after 1.5x yeast cultures are available, I will select out the best of them by increasing the alcohol content 9by adding the partially fermented wort, slowly, to the starter, until it has reached 80% partially done wort by volume (counting against the starter size, pre-decanting of a 1 gallon starter batch (revived from the primary's trub). then I will cold crash, and oxygenate the wort through stirring and add the yeast again. feeling pretty good about this., but only time will tell

 

[BullGator]

I am curious about your number pennisim; I calculated mine to be about 1.100 og, but I checked and it was 1.112, dunnoo.... but my real question is "Did you measure the final gravity with a hydrometer? I have a reading of 1.060 right now, at a month, kept the level below 1.065, stopped once it started to rise above 1.058. I don't think my yeast is dead, this just might take a while, but, due to problems/setbacks, I can only guess at my original gravity and final gravity. the hopville calulator says I should expect it to get down to 1.034, I hope so, but I have no idea if I calculated right.... I had 4 gallons at start of fermentation, after having topped off a 3.5 gallon boil to 5 gallons, while using 17.5 lbs light pilsen lme, and 1 lbs amber DME (spilled 1 gallon on day 3, yet, my volume is back to 5 gallons after only 7 pounds of sugar additions. I am "in over my head" and wish there were a few dogfish head sharks circling to let me know what's up.....

So is it possible to brew this with extract? It appears that brad1775 did (although it seem he had some difficulty, no offense Brad). Can I just do a larger grain steep or something to make up for it? I really want to try this! I haven't gone all grain mainly because I have been busy focusing on my keezer build.

 

[scottland]

You'd have to do a partial(mini) mash, and the larger the better. But yes, I suppose it is possible to do with extract. Just try to get your hands on the most fermentable extract you can find, and don't be surprised if the FG finishes high.

 

[Rivenin]

One suggestion i have is try and do a full boil... you're gonna have a Crap ton of malt syrup which might burn easily with just a 2 or 3 gallon boil

 

[BullGator]

You'd have to do a partial(mini) mash, and the larger the better. But yes, I suppose it is possible to do with extract. Just try to get your hands on the most fermentable extract you can find, and don't be surprised if the FG finishes high.

Thanks for responding. Ya, I was going to make mini-mashes my entry into all grain brewing. Do you have any recommendations as far as quantities? If you can just take a stab at it that would be better than me doing it at this point. I am not planning on brewing this within the next few weeks so I will have time to work out my plan.

I was thinking about brewing 'regular' beers with the yeasts I would use for the 120 a few weeks before so I can wash the yeast from those. Then combine all the jars for each yeast and build those up. What do you think?

Also, I am assuming you fermented in a temperature controlled keezer or something right? Do you think this is critical? I will be getting another freezer soon but it may not be for a few months.

I have been usually boiling around 5 to 5.5 gallons but I was thinking of upgrading to a 10 gallon pot soon.

Also, I brew with dme and my LHBS carries Muntons. Any word on that dme?

 

[Brad1775]

I am certainly a begginer, but I lear best from failure, and didn't expect this to turn out perfect or anything, so the alcohol alone is worth it! I think it was more about my not properly oxygenating the beer up front, but I added another batch of trappist high gravity and am going to let it sit for another month or 2, it's aggressivly fermenting again. it's got a big krauzen, for the 3rd time. it re-started after a cold crashing, and subsequent aeration. Due to ideal gas law etc I can get more ppm oxygen in a cold crashed beer. also, all the lazy yeast are gone ,and I've added the 4 step starter, not sure about how many yeasties there are, but about half the cake has reformed in the 5 gallon carboy it's in.

 

[beerman0001]

Started my dry hop today 1oz simcoe 1oz amarillo. Looking great!! 3:rockin: weeks till kegging.

 

[bottlebomber]

I don't understand why you would want to stagger dry hopping... isn't the plan usually to get the most hop aroma you can and then bottle it up? It seems like the early additions would be starting to fade.

 

[beerman0001]

I don't understand why you would want to stagger dry hopping... isn't the plan usually to get the most hop aroma you can and then bottle it up? It seems like the early additions would be starting to fade.

I am just following what Scottland did, too much time and $$ to mess it up now. Also when I did my Pliny clone it called for 2 dry hop additions and that was a Vinnie version. If this is a waste of time it would be much easier just to throw them all in. Any consensus on this?

 

[scottland]

Talk to any brewery that has big hoppy beers, they all do multiple dry hops. Firestone walker dry hops union jack 3 times, double jack4 times. Russian river dry hops Pliny the elder 2 times, they dry hop the younger 4 times. Vinnie said he would hop the younger 4 times as well if he had the time.

You just get bigger, bolder hop aroma. I'm not sure of the science, but it works.

 

[beerman0001]

Thanks scottland I will keep going with my original plan then.

 

[Brad1775]

Checked today,m my gravity has started droppinga gain. THANK GOODNESS. it's down to 1.058, from 1.070 a few days ago. looks like things are on track for a full fermentation!

 

[beerman0001]

Sounds like you got it going good again nice!

 

[Brad1775]

I think it was about the temperatures getting too high, fermentor went up to 80ish. As it is now, I have added enough sugar to make this hit 15.3%, I want it at 17+, so if it hits 1.024 I'll add more sugar.

 

[dblott1]

i need some advise from you guys that know what you are doing, ( which means not me)

recipe----

46 lbs 14.9 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 65.5 %
1 lbs 7.5 oz Amber Malt (22.0 SRM) Grain 2 2.0 %
23 lbs 4.0 oz Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 3 32.5 %
3.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 120.0 min Hop 4 19.2 IBUs
3.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 120.0 min Hop 5 29.3 IBUs
3.00 oz Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 120.0 min Hop 6 33.8 IBUs
1.0 pkg California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35.49 ml] Yeast 7 -
1.0 pkg Super High Gravity Ale (White Labs #WLP099) [35.49 ml] Yeast 8 -
2.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Warrior [15.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
1.75 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs

i brewed the 120 minute all grain recipe from sean paxton. 13 gallon batch. i was a little low on my OG (1.070 instead of 1.100). but everything went great during fermentation. 3 1/2 weeks of solid krautzen now i am at the end of 1 month (all sugar and hop additions done). my beers FG is way low 1.008 (sean paxtons was 1.050)

i tasted a little bit of the racking port and it definitely is strong (i figure 21.7%) but it doesnt taste as sweet as i think it should. i tastes a little like champagne.

does anyone know how to sweeten it up a little bit without the yeast just eating the sugar?

fyi, i plan on racking to 3 cornies, cold crashing in the kegerator, filtering through a 30 micron filter, force carbing and then bottling.

just not sure how to add some sweetness to balance out the strength of the alcohol. or just do nothing? i didnt know if other thought theirs ended up to sweet?

i appreciate the help and feed back

 

[dblott1]

i guess i should say that i get terrible efficency on these big beers so thats why i looks like i have aaaaalot of grain

also does anyone know how fine of a filter you have to have to filter out yeast?

 

[scottland]

does anyone know how to sweeten it up a little bit without the yeast just eating the sugar?

Rack off the yeast to secondary, cold crash the beer, then add about 1lb of dextrose (that'll bring you back to about 1.016). 21% ABV is super toxic to the yeast, after a transfer and cold crash, they won't eat any of the new fermentables.

 

[dblott1]

thx scottland

if i bottle the beer after force carbing, will the yeast kick back in and blow the tops?

 

[bja]

thx scottland

if i bottle the beer after force carbing, will the yeast kick back in and blow the tops?

It could. You should probably add potassium sorbate to inhibit renewed fermentation when back sweetening.

 

[dblott1]

also, do you think it will be to dry? 1.008 is pretty low. or should i just wait and add nothing?

 

[bja]

Taste it. I may think it's too dry and you may not.

 

[Brad1775]

Alcohol has a specific gravity of .787, with 21% I think there is a big possibilty that the gravity appears lower, but only by up to 10 points difference. However, with the annecdotal experience of 1.024 being sweet, but acceptable, I dunno. anything is possible. RDWHAHB

 

[bottlebomber]

Alcohol has a specific gravity of .787, with 21% I think there is a big possibilty that the gravity appears lower, but only by up to 10 points difference. However, with the annecdotal experience of 1.024 being sweet, but acceptable, I dunno. anything is possible. RDWHAHB

Excellent point. The super high alcohol content is throwing off your idea of how much sugar there is.

 

[Brad1775]

acctually... I did a little wrong math last time. holy ****, it looks like alcohol changes the gravity by a BUNCH; it brings it down 0.045 from the gravity it would be with just water and sugar. Oh my god. thats a lot of alcohol, and a lot of sugar.

So, it turns out your measurment of 1.008 isnt acctually to the tune of 21% afterall. I need to know calculus for this, but it seems that given 21%, the finding would be 1.052 acctual gravity, but thats augmented because the measurement is based on the assumptions of 21%, which is based off a faulty reading. The alcohol is acctually slightly lower, probably 15% to my recoking, and so the corrected value wodul be more like 18% alcohol and a sweetness of about 0.048 ppg residual sugar.

 

[dblott1]

i tasted the beer. it tastes pretty dry. i would like to add something to sweeten it up just alittle. i have heard that maltodextren (sorry about the spelling) is unfermentable but would still add some sweet. also someone suggested to me "mash alittle bit of 120L, reduce it down quick a bit so its a little thicker, and add that to the beer to give it a hint of caramel flavor.

........im open to ideas........fire away please.

i also thought i can filter this to get most of the yeast out, bottle 2 bottles (1 with a little something added and 1 with nothing add for a taste comparison) all while leaving most of the beer in the 3 cornies chilling. thoughts?

 

[scottland]

I wouldn't add any more caramel malt. You'll be shocked how syrupy sweet that beer can get. I'd just wait right now. Get the beer racked off to a secondary, and let it start to condition a little before you make any decisions. You can add sugar at any point, but you can't remove it. You might as well have an idea what the finished product will taste like before you sweeten it up. Trust me, once the yeast fall out, and the beer sits for a little bit, 1.008 might not taste as dry as you think. If it is still dry at that point mixing in some more corn sugar and some potassium sorbate will easily cure the problem.

 

[Bierliebhaber]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet, but lactose sugar is non-fermentable. It's a good way to back sweeten and no need to add anything to retard yeast. I have used it on lambics with good results.

 

[dblott1]

Did u get the lactose sugar @ ur local homebrew store? Is it just alittle sweet or really sweet

 

[Bierliebhaber]

Yep, LHBS carries it. I've only used it in fruit lambics that are extremely tart before back sweetening, so it's hard to say how much you would need for this application. Lactose is not an overpowering sweetener by any means. It has a very neutral flavor, IMHO. If you end up needing to back sweeten, I would guess less than a pound. I don't think it would take much to tip the balance and like others have said, time will mellow the hops and the malt sweetness will come through much more as the flavors mature. I think you would still be better off bulk aging to see how it turns out over time.

 

[scottland]

Lactose isn't 'sweet' like sugar is sweet though. And DFH 120 is definitely 'sweet'. I know that might not make much sense, but ya....

 

[Jsmith82]

Finally that time of the year for me to brew 120 again and I've got pretty much all my ingredients together, the only thing holding me back from brewing this weekend in oppose to next is whether or not I'll get my 099 in time. As most of us here have discussed, the original recipe is sweet, Scottland you and I have discussed a couple times how we're going to alter our next 120 batches, I hammered out my details last night and here's where I'm going:

10# 2-row + 0.5# Crystal 20 (standard mash, not the profiled mash)
3# Light DME

120min full boil.

3oz Simcoe (split across 40 addtions, 1 every 3 minutes)
3oz Centennial (split across 40 addtions, 1 every 3 minutes)
3oz Cascade (split across 40 addtions, 1 every 3 minutes)

Wyeast 1056 w/ starter
WLP099 w/ starter

6# Dextrose split into 12 8oz additions
2oz Simcoe DH
1oz Centennial DH
1oz Cascade DH

OG ESTIMATE: 1.136
TARGET FG: 1.015 or lower
Estimated ABV at 1.015: 16.1%

*Hop amount is doubled - in doing so subbed the Warrior for a less acidic hop
*Amarillo and Warrior subbed with Centennial and Cascade (the warrior by choice, the Amarillo due to availability)
*Actual grain / extract makes up 70% of total fermentables in oppose to the original 60%
*Total sugar amount is cut back to tame ABV / control FG and sweetness
*DH amount increased by 33% of original recipe

That's it - That's this years version of 120IIPA for my house. If it finishes lower that 1.015 so be it, 1.010 would put it right at 17% and I'm good with that. I feel confident this is going to round out flavors that I thought missed in my first go at it, it falls to matter of opinion by individual taste I suppose. The main drive behind this year for me was more hops, less alcohol - I played by the book once, this year it's time to fit it to my own tastes.

Honestly after brewing up this hop bomb above, next year will probably be the balance best of both worlds. I'll take pictures as always, 120 eye candy is always good times.

**Looks like it will either be Sunday this weekend or Saturday the next. My LHBS that supplied my yeast last time for this just told me they have switched over to selling and ordering WYeast only. I ordered what I needed from Northern Brewer with 2 day shipping, we'll see....

RDWHAHBAWFYGDY (relax, don't worry, have a home brew, and wait for your god **** yeast)

 

[scottland]

Nice man, that's exactly how I want to do my next batch (different hops, but otherwise the same)

 

[kickrjason]

I am interested in trying one of these myself. What is your technique for the multiple hop additions? I was thinking Dixie bathroom paper cups.

 

[smuth10]

Jsmith82 - Let me know how this turns out. I am thinking of brewing it again and may change a few things as well.

 

[beerman0001]

I am interested in trying one of these myself. What is your technique for the multiple hop additions? I was thinking Dixie bathroom paper cups.

Those work great.

 

[Jsmith82]

I am interested in trying one of these myself. What is your technique for the multiple hop additions? I was thinking Dixie bathroom paper cups.

+1 with Beerman, they work great

(I post that picture around a lot but man it's my favorite! I just need your camera Scott so it doesn't look so blurry )

On my brew, absolutely I'll share the play by play here, probably will propose a couple more bottle swaps early spring. I'm feeling giddy right now about brewing this, it's been a long time since I've been amped to make a brew.

Side note, I've ordered supplies from Northern Brewer twice now and you just can not beat their customer service. First time they sent me 3lbs blueberry puree by mistake (I ordered 3lbs apricot for my DFH Aprihop clone), I offered to ship back the blueberry but they told me to keep it then rushed me the apricot free of charge. This time I've ordered my stuff yesterday with 2 day shipping, I've already been sent my confirmation, reciept, tracking number, update that it has shipped, and a requested ETA update from Fed Ex placed by NB. That's just awesome, with my son on the way here in a couple months I'm getting ready to make a large bulk purchase of DME, grains and hops to keep me brewing through the next year, I think they're going to get my business on it.