Decoction Newb

[Big-R]

I have a question. I found a recipe I like for a Wit but I don't Understand the procedure. Specifically the protein rests in the beginning. I'm missing some knowledge and I don't know where to find it.

How do I work the protein rests? Add 3gallons of water and grain in a kettle? Then put into another kettle for the decoction? Should I move it all to my tun to hold temp better?

HELP!


Here's what the procedure of the recipe says:


Dough-in grains with 3 gallons of soft water at ~90F. Protein rests:
30 minutes @ 117F
30 minutes @ 122F
30 minutes @ 126F (at this point, the wheat appears dissolved)
Pull first decoction; thickest third of the mash
Heat decoction to 160F, rest 15 minutes
Heat decoction to boiling, boil 15 minutes
Return boiling decoction to rest mash and stir.
Mash temperature should be near 145F. Rest 15 minutes.
Pull second decoction; thickest third of the mash
Heat decoction to 160F, rest 10 minutes
Heat decoction to boiling, boil 10 minutes
Return boiling decoction to rest mash and stir.
Mash temperature should be near 162F. Rest 15 minutes.
Check starch. If not converted, rest longer.
Mash-out: 10 minutes @ 170F
Sparge: 5 gallons @ 170F
Boil 60 minutes, adding hops at the beginning.

 

[Yooper]

I'm not an expert on protein rests- but I would NOT do a 90 minute protein rest (all of those steps are protein rests).

For a decoction, you mash into your MLT (your cooler) and then pull the amount of grain you need to hit the next rest temperature. Put that into a new saucepan/pot. Bring that up to saccrification rest temperatures, hold it, and then bring that grain to a boil. Software helps with the math on how many quarts of mash you need to pull to hit the next temperature.

 

[iowabrew]

Technically with the modern modified malts of today, a step mash isn't necessary. I've made wits before using a simple single infusion mash.

Sent from my XT907 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[Big-R]

Thanks for clearing that up Yooper! That seems more realistic too.

I hear you iowabrew. Its just something I want to try. It's kind of the same as choosing to take a winding back road as opposed to the interstate. I'd like to tap into our premodern brewing roots a little.

 

[wtfDean]

i hate when people say "you can get a good product without decocting, so don't bother". can't you get a good glass of beer without making it too?

decocting is easy, it just adds some time to the process. so far i've only done a single decoction method according to Palmer's How To Brew (description starting on page 172 hard copy, if you're reading along).

i experienced minor bottom scorching despite lots of stirring through the boil. you basically don't stop stirring for 30 minutes, so slam a beer before you start boiling your mash. definitely take yooper's advice to use software for temps and amounts. i've fallen short of mash out temp with longhand math, so maybe i have the wrong equations or something.

be sure to let us know how it goes! i've had a blast decocting.

 

[VladOfTrub]

IMO, it is the staunch infusers and baggers that are the detractors of decoction brewing. It may be due to not understanding what takes place chemically, nutrient wise, and enzymatically. They stand on the reason that malt is high modified, so decoction is not needed. Granted, high modified malt isn't the best choice for a tri-decoction, but it can still be used if the process is changed a little. It is impossible to create the same end product using single infusion or baggery, that is produced by decoction. Enzymes are taken through diastatic temp ranges and pH ranges a few times. Boiling bursts starch, giving enzymes more to work on. Drastically, reducing starch carried into the end product. Boiling reduces viscosity and protein gum. It seems that decoction noobs want to jump right into doing a recipe that is pretty tough to make. It's better to use a single malt and get the process down. Then, as experience is gained, do tougher recipes.

op: A direct fired mash tun makes life easier. Boiling water infusions won't be needed to jack up the protein rest temps or to hold the main mash at certain temps. If you have a kettle large enough to hold the grain and three gallons of water, it is best to use it. As long as you have a means to heat the kettle. You'll need a 2nd kettle for the decoction. Having the right equipment helps make the process easier. The process written is common in brewing certain styles of German wheat beer. Including the 90 minute stepped protein rest. The time takes into consideration the length of time for decoctions. Using continental, lower SNR malt, it takes a couple of hours to over do a protein rest.

Here's how I would brew the beer if acid malt is in the recipe:

Raise the main mash from initial dough in temp, to 117F using a hot water infusion. Let it rest at 117, that's the ferulic rest. The time will stabilize mash pH. The rest is at the higher end temp of beta glucan.

Soon as main mash pH drops to 5.8. Pull 1st decoction. Begin heating decoction without scorching. Take decoction to 122F and rest for 20 minutes. After resting, crank up the heat to 160F. At 15 minutes check for conversion using iodine. If not converted, thin decoction with hot water to convert. After conversion, boil decoction. Dump decoction into the main mash. This decoction will be used to bring the main mash from 117F to 126F.

Soon as the main mash temp is stable throughout at 126F, pull 2nd decoction. Maintain main mash at 126F. Heat 2nd decoction ASAP from 126 to 153F. Rest until conversion and boil. Dump 2nd decoction into the main mash to raise temp from 126F to 145F.

As soon as main mash temp is stable at 145F, pull 3rd decoction. Raise temp ASAP to 158-160F and rest 10 minutes. Then take to a boil. Dump decoction into main mash to reach a temp of 160-162F for final conversion. Transfer to lautertun and fly sparge.

Good luck, have fun, brew on!!!!

 

[wtfDean]

Here's how I would brew the beer if acid malt is in the recipe:

Raise the main mash from initial dough in temp, to 117F using a hot water infusion. Let it rest at 117, that's the ferulic rest. The time will stabilize mash pH. The rest is at the higher end temp of beta glucan.

Soon as main mash pH drops to 5.8. Pull 1st decoction. Begin heating decoction without scorching. Take decoction to 122F and rest for 20 minutes. After resting, crank up the heat to 160F. At 15 minutes check for conversion using iodine. If not converted, thin decoction with hot water to convert. After conversion, boil decoction. Dump decoction into the main mash. This decoction will be used to bring the main mash from 117F to 126F.

Soon as the main mash temp is stable throughout at 126F, pull 2nd decoction. Maintain main mash at 126F. Heat 2nd decoction ASAP from 126 to 153F. Rest until conversion and boil. Dump 2nd decoction into the main mash to raise temp from 126F to 145F.

As soon as main mash temp is stable at 145F, pull 3rd decoction. Raise temp ASAP to 158-160F and rest 10 minutes. Then take to a boil. Dump decoction into main mash to reach a temp of 160-162F for final conversion. Transfer to lautertun and fly sparge.

not to diminish the great advice (and i have taken notes myself), but i really think that for your first time just go with a single decoction. monitor pH levels if you wish, but i have made great products without. if someone had recommended to me that i do what VladOfTrub just said, i probably wouldn't have bothered.

edit: missing punctuation

 

[Tomcat0304]

I'd like to chime in here for some clarification as well. How "thick" of a decoction should be taken? Should a strainer be used to pull the amount of grain out, or should some wort be included in the decoction?

 

[wtfDean]

pretty thick. when pulling mash to decoct, i scoop with a 2 cup measuring cup and make sure there isn't any free water over the grain. a single decoction should be a little thinner than if you're doing more than one step, but it should still be quite thick (which is also what she said).

edit: according to Palmer, "Thick decoctions will have a [water to grain] ratio of 0.6 to 0.7 [quarts per pound], thinner decoctions will have a ratio of 0.8 to 0.9 quarts/pound."

that's kind of numerical and specific, but it might help you understand about how much water and grain you'll be boiling

 

[VladOfTrub]

The decoction should have enough liquid to prohibit scorching. I usually pull 4-5 gallons of mash for the decoction, it's the amount needed for the grain bill used. At dough in I use 1 qt/lb. I use one of the metal ice scoopers ice fisherman use to scoop out the mash. The holes allow the liquid to flow out. After the mash is in the decoction kettle, I add enough liquid to keep the mash fluid. At 1 qt/lb there is enough liquid on top of the main mash that can be used to cool the decoction down if over shooting temps occur. There's enough liquid if more needs to be added to thin the decoction to convert. The .6, .7 amount takes into account liberal infusions of water used for maintaing rest temps during the process. At .6, .7, extract would be so thick in the lautertun, the grain bed would become compressed. Sparging would be near impossible without cutting channels. Conversion would take a long time, too. With the decoction method, 2 qt/lb or more aren't unusual to wind up with at the end of the process.

 

[wtfDean]

the first time i did a single decoction, it turned into thick oatmeal by the end of a 30 minute boil and it scorched a little bit (not significantly). i still think it should be a thick portion of mash, but there is such a thing as too thick