Countertop Brutus 20

CornyKegs 728
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Deadloss calculation is easy - put some water in the MLT, drain it via the valve and pour off what's left into a measured container. With my 5 gal MLT, it's exactly 2 cups, or .125 gallons.
 
There is also going to be a small amount trapped in the CFC and the output line going from the CFC to the top of the MLT as well correct? I just did a quick volume formulation on the CFC at 20' with a 1/4" ID and it looks like it's around 12 cubic inches of volume. That's almost a cup of wort sitting there as well I would think but my understandings of the workings in this system might not be correct.
 
hukdizzle said:
There is also going to be a small amount trapped in the CFC and the output line going from the CFC to the top of the MLT as well correct? I just did a quick volume formulation on the CFC at 20' with a 1/4" ID and it looks like it's around 12 cubic inches of volume. That's almost a cup of wort sitting there as well I would think but my understandings of the workings in this system might not be correct.
Click to expand...

I guess it depends on what you do at the end of chilling. Everything inside the CFC eventually gets incorporated into the boil via recirculation. After the wort is chilled, I raise the CFC bucket above the kettle, forcing all wort back into the kettle so there's zero loss.
 
Seems pretty easy to do. Guess I didn't realize that. I am not using the CFC with my system b/c I had an extra immersion chiller that I'm able to use pretty easily so I don't have to account for any loss there I guess. I'm interested in doing another batch now so I can see what the calculations end up being. I guess I'm probably doing just fine after my first two batches, I just am going to pay more attention to the numbers/data.
 
jkarp said:
Of course, I calibrated at 0C, with a lab thermometer, prior to use. Nonetheless, with this PID, the Auber RTD is off at boiling, by a small amount. Certainly nothing to worry about.
Click to expand...
So do you think I should change my build from the k type thermocouple to the RTD with RTD panel mount?
 
I'd definitely do RTD as the thermocouple wire is more fragile. The RTD comes with a standard disconnect @ the probe so there's really no need for a panel mount with it.
 
You may also want to look into this.

pet-sleeving.jpg


The 1/8" stuff is perfect for the RTD wire and makes it really sturdy and professional looking. Plus, it is cheap.
 
Also JK, I'm building my list for the cb20 but what are the 1/2 quick connectors for? I don't see them in any of the pics.
 
jkarp said:
I'd definitely do RTD as the thermocouple wire is more fragile. The RTD comes with a standard disconnect @ the probe so there's really no need for a panel mount with it.
Click to expand...
Jkarp,
Does the RTD wire the same as the k type?
 
Warwick316 said:
Jkarp,
Does the RTD wire the same as the k type?
Click to expand...

They are a little different, they come in 2 wire to 4 wire formats. The good news is you can make any controller that supports RTDs work with them regardless of terminals available. You just loose a little accuracy.

3 wires are the most common though.
 
I see in your original picture of the CFC bucket on the outside it looks like a 1/2 close nipple with a 1\2 nut to hold it in place. I'm still not sure where the QD goes. Sorry I'm just lost.
 
Edcculus said:
Also, do you have any thoughts on housing this permanently on some kind of kart or table setup?
Click to expand...

I did exactly that. Scaled jkarp's design up to 5 Gal and mounted everything on a rolling cart I bought from Harbor Freight. I keep the cart in the garage, under a BBQ grill cover. PM me if you want some pics or have any questions.
 
I'm curious why you used the 40A SSR and Heatsink. Running a single 2kW element from a 110V supply would only draw about 18 amps, so I would think the 25A SSR would have been plenty.

The reason I'm asking is that the difference in cost of the heatsinks and SSRs combined are $15. I'm looking at using 2 heater elements so this would save me $30 in cost. I'd like to have the ability to do 10gal batches so I'd like to have both elements controlled. This would also provide quicker temperature transfers for my normal 5 gal batches
 
jkarp, what an inspiration, man! I'm just getting back into this and I think your setup looks to be the most economical and achievable for me. Can't spring for a pump or the elecrtics at the moment, so I'm adjusting this into a gravity fed system.

Which, if you think about it, is sort of like the circle of life. Homebrewers generally start with small, kitchen systems. Then Lonnie Mac develops a constant circulation behemoth, which you scale down, and then gets "watered down" into a typical countertop kitchen system. Still, I'm keeping the CB moniker so I can call my system CBGB's (the Countertop Brutus Gravity Fed Brewing System). :rockin:
 
jjyoung said:
I'm curious why you used the 40A SSR and Heatsink. Running a single 2kW element from a 110V supply would only draw about 18 amps, so I would think the 25A SSR would have been plenty.
Click to expand...

The 25A SSR works just fine, but it will generate more heat. I used a 25A originally, and the heatsink got too hot to touch. I "upgraded" to a 40A one on a later Auber order.
 
jkarp said:
...I used a 25A originally, and the heatsink got too hot to touch. I "upgraded" to a 40A one on a later Auber order.
Click to expand...

That makes sense, although it's probably more related to the heat sink than the SSR. But, since the 2 go together...

So, I suppose I'll pay the extra and get two 40A SSRs and Heatsinks. Being a control engineer from way back I prefer to have both elements in the loop. Besides, it'll get me to my strike temperatures faster...more time for drinking and less for brewing. :D
 
I'm thinking of making my setup with a 10gal cooler and a 15.5 gal Keg, with two 120v 2kw elements. I'm wanting to do 5gal batches or more. Does anybody see any problems with this kind of a setup?
 
Warwick316 said:
I'm thinking of making my setup with a 10gal cooler and a 15.5 gal Keg, with two 120v 2kw elements. I'm wanting to do 5gal batches or more. Does anybody see any problems with this kind of a setup?
Click to expand...

That's what I've been talking about doing. There are 2 ways to go for the 5gal batches:
1. Buy two SSRs and Heatsinks and drive both SSRs from the PID Controller.
2. Buy one SSR and Heatsink. Use the 2nd 120v kw element only while bringing the kettle up to boiling point. In this case you would plug the the 2nd element directly into the wall and unplug it once you reach boiling.

If you want to go 10gal batches it would probably be better to go with #1 above.
 
jjyoung said:
That's what I've been talking about doing. There are 2 ways to go for the 5gal batches:
1. Buy two SSRs and Heatsinks and drive both SSRs from the PID Controller.
2. Buy one SSR and Heatsink. Use the 2nd 120v kw element only while bringing the kettle up to boiling point. In this case you would plug the the 2nd element directly into the wall and unplug it once you reach boiling.

If you want to go 10gal batches it would probably be better to go with #1 above.
Click to expand...
I think I want to go the #2 route, cause I'm only planing on doing 5gal batches and if I want to upgrade to 2 SSR's for 10 gal batches I could easily add another SSR. Thanks for shedding some light on my decision.
 
Since I get such poor flow through the pump bucket CFC, I added a bypass valve. This makes transferring liquids (that don't require cooling, as in the final process of pumping into the fermenter) much quicker.

Note that when I was recirculating the mash (through the CFC and before having the bypass valve), I was still limited by the gravity flow from the MLT and not the flow rate of the pump through the CFC. Having the bypass just makes it quicker to transfer liquids between vessels.

Note that I have quick-disconnects on all connections, including the garden hose connections.

Thanks again to jkarp for this thread and the inspiration for the pump bucket CFC. :)

pump%20bucket%20wort%20side.jpg

pump%20bucket%20water%20side.jpg

pump%20bucket%20interior.jpg
 
I finally finished my Brutus20 and had an opportunity to brew this weekend. My efficiency was around 66% which I believe was the same as jkarp. I was surprised the wort cooled to pitch temp so quickly. It was right around 12 minutes for 3.75 gals.

brutus20.JPG
 
Do you guys feel this system could be improved by implementing some type of sparging manifold or arm? It seems like it would improve the sparging and reduce fluid channeling in the mash which would hopefully eek out any additional efficiency points that could be had. I am contemplating implementing one on my build and was wondering what you guys thought about integrating something like this into the lid. Maybe a square sweated copper manifold or something like that? Possibly use a ring of PEX tubing connected via a the bulkhead in the center of the lid?
 
hukdizzle said:
Do you guys feel this system could be improved by implementing some type of sparging manifold or arm? It seems like it would improve the sparging and reduce fluid channeling in the mash which would hopefully eek out any additional efficiency points that could be had. I am contemplating implementing one on my build and was wondering what you guys thought about integrating something like this into the lid.
Click to expand...

Channeling isn't a factor because the wort is recirculated until the gravity reaches equilibrium throughout the system. This makes the actual MLT design very non-critical. I use a stainless braid, but other CB20 builders have done Bazooka Screens and full false bottoms, all with the same effective results.

As far as sparge arms go, even the hardcore fly spargers are realizing they're essentially pointless bling. Done correctly, a fly sparge should always have an inch or two of water above the grainbed so how the water gets in there is of little importance as long as the bed isn't overly disturbed. Note Blichmann's new AutoSparge - just a hose floating on top.
 
Wow yeah I have never examined the autosparge closely but it is really a simple attachment. Any of you guys thought of a good easy to clean/will not leach any smell/taste flotation ring to put on the tip of the hose?
 
Jkarp, what size of holes am I going to need to drill for the element,sight-glass, and ball valve? I only have one shot at this and I want to be exact.
 
Warwick316 said:
Jkarp, what size of holes am I going to need to drill for the element,sight-glass, and ball valve? I only have one shot at this and I want to be exact.
Click to expand...

I strongly suggest getting a unibit or Harbor Freight clone. Then you'll be able to make any size hole you need. I don't remember off the top of my head what they all were w/o disassembling things.
 
jkarp said:
Channeling isn't a factor because the wort is recirculated until the gravity reaches equilibrium throughout the system. This makes the actual MLT design very non-critical. I use a stainless braid, but other CB20 builders have done Bazooka Screens and full false bottoms, all with the same effective results.
Click to expand...

Would a Coleman Extreme 36 qt (scaling your system up a bit) with a braid work then? Or would a manifold still be necessary for a rectangular cooler?

Being stationed overseas, I'm at the whim of what the base can get, and off-base a 5 gallon round cooler would be $120+.

Thanks! :mug:
 
I wouldn't think the cooler geometry would make much difference. As long as you're minimizing deadloss, you'll be golden.
 
I am about to purchase the eletrical equipment from auberins and this is my first electrical DIY thing. I am wondering why we get a 40A SSA since we will not use nearly that much electricity with just one x 120v 2kw heating element.

I am ordering it, just trying to understand why we need a 40A one and not say a 20A one since I am using a standard kitchen outlet with the Ground fault on it.

Thanks,
Jeff
 
I have seen a lot of people recommend getting an SSR about 2x the size you NEED, as it will run cooler, longer. The cost difference is nil, so I went with (10) 40A SSRs. I send 20A across most of them, 3A across a couple
 
Depending on the SSR manufacture their maximum operating temp for SSR's is 180 to 185*F, near this maximum the life of the SSR becomes shorter but will still work. I would rather have a larger one run cooler or have a muffin fan reducing the temps way lower for a long trouble free life. Buy once or buy twice which way sounds cheaper? Your decision.
 

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