Cost vs. Labor - Before I do anything!

[Rentachik]

I just brewed a Stone Ruination clone. Cost $32 Two six packs at the liquor store, $30. So for the additional $2 I now have an additional 38 bottle of brew. I'd say it can be cheaper.

On the flip side, I think alot of people on here fall victim to the downward spiral of dumping ridiculous amount of cash into this hobby. My self included.

So if economy is your thing... I'd buy the $70 brew bucket kit with an extra bucket and 32QT pot from Sams Club. Total cost $110-120. You should have every thing you need to do all grain cheap beers. Do the bucket in a bucket trick.

 

[eriktlupus]

check out brewmasterswarehouse.com for a bit cheaper pricing esp on the shipping(he's in atl). the kit you linked is nice but not sure about the bottles and the pot can be found at most any bigbox store. this http://www.brewmasterswarehouse.com/product/0101896/maestro-beer-equipment-wauto-siphon and this http://www.brewmasterswarehouse.com/product/0101627/5-gallon-glass-carboy and then recycle some of them newcastle bottles.

 

[uncleozzy]

The labor cost, therefore, probably doesn't come into play for somebody who's thinking about a dollars and cents approach to brewing.

Exactly. I tend to brew (and bottle) when I would otherwise be watching TV, reading a book, playing a video game, or sleeping. That is, not making money. If you have a few spare hours every couple of weeks, homebrewing can definitely be a money-saver (well, unless your consumption increases as a result of brewing... which it will). And hell, if you look at brew-time as entertainment, it's even better.

 

[152Sumo]

When I first got into homebrewing, a friend of mine from the UK asked "why are you homebrewing? Beer is cheap in the US." He did some homebrewing in the UK strictly to save money. I answered him: "I don't do it to save money, I do it because it is interesting and fun, especially to drink it".

I suppose one could save money homebrewing, but I think most people start for the hobby, not necessarily for the savings. If I could duplicate 90 minute IPA, I am sure I could save ($10 for a 4 pack!)

 

[CarsonCE]

I just brewed a Stone Ruination clone. Cost $32 Two six packs at the liquor store, $30. So for the additional $2 I now have an additional 38 bottle of brew. I'd say it can be cheaper.

On the flip side, I think alot of people on here fall victim to the downward spiral of dumping ridiculous amount of cash into this hobby. My self included.

So if economy is your thing... I'd buy the $70 brew bucket kit with an extra bucket and 32QT pot from Sams Club. Total cost $110-120. You should have every thing you need to do all grain cheap beers. Do the bucket in a bucket trick.

All grain is certainly cheaper per batch, but I think it would be best to start with extract and steeping grains to learn the basics. Most of us started with extract (and some continue brewing this way) before moving on to all-grain if we choose.

 

[StarCityBrewMaster]

For me it's anything to keep me away from the damn online poker tables!

I am going to study up and make the initial equipment purchase. That's half the battle for me. Once I get starter equipment I'll be full steam ahead I've just got to get over that initial hump!

If you all could name one or a few things that you didn't have when you started brewing but realized after just a brew or two you needed (or would make the process easier) what would they be?

 

[JetSmooth]

I brewed with the typical "starter" extract setup about thirteen years ago. I've since decided to build out what's left of that equipment and go all grain. At first, I figured it would be about $150 in equipment. A friend was interested in trying it so I offered to split the 5 gallon batch wit hhim if he put up the money for the ingredients. I figured ingredients (given poor efficienty and overestimating to give myself a nice overhead offset) to be $50.

After joining this forum (BIG mistake!) I found a few other pieces I'd been missing from my extract days (a decent wort cooling method, pump, etc) and my hardware estimate went up to $250ish. So I invited another friend to join in and split the beer three ways with a buy-in of $45.

Well, I JUST finished planning out my purchases and am looking at about $450 in hardware costs. I invited ANOTHER friend to join us with the buy-in now at $40 each and still splitting the beer three ways. I won't be taking any of this maiden batch (well, maybe three bottles).

I could have stuck with a partial volume boil with extract and stayed around the $150 mark. But where's the fun in that?

 

[doug1395]

Its just a hobby for me that's the best way to look at it. Its something to do,everytime I leave the house I spend money.Just think about it,if your watching your pennies right now just wait.When your ready though the beer , well its GOOD !

 

[Synovia]

Homebrewing is in no way shape or form a way to save money on beer.

Saving money isn't a good reason to homebrew, but you sure can save money homebrewing.



There's no reason that homebrewing has to be expensive. The fact that a lot of guys LOVE to buy expensive equipment doesn't mean you have to.


You could have a whole all grain setup for $100, and be making beer for $12 per 5g/50bottles.

 

[JetSmooth]

Doug,

You've got a great point about spending money leavin gthe house. My wife and I just had a baby and I reflected on my entertainment and realized I didn't really do much in the way of hobbies with any real benefit to the home life. Well, I do BBQ (Google "Big Green Egg" and you'll find another cult to get into and spend money on) but most of what we do is go out.

I decided I needed to develop a hobby that I could become very proficient at and use as a bonding experience with my son when he grows up a little. Luckily, my wife is a beer drinkin' gal as well, so this might just work.

Something to do with the family AND you end up with great beer? Who wouldn't spend a little money on that?

As an aside, when I was growing up, my dad's dad owned a bar. Or I should say THE barin the little Nebraska town he grew up in. We only got to visit once every few years or so as I remember, but I loved the atmosphere. My dad's a Miller Lite drinker and I can remember him having a beer every night with the news but I have NEVER seen him intoxicated in my life. Not even now that I'm 32 and we drink in his woodshop or just hanging out. I think having that early and responsible exposure to alcohol fostered a very healthy repesct of alcohol. I rarely overindulge myself now.

 

[Synovia]

This must be a world record. It's rare that Bobby_M or myself wasn't the first to point out the labor cost when people "save" money brewing.

There's only a labor cost if you're skipping work to brew. Its a hobby.


Saying brewing has a labor cost is like telling me its costing me $35/hr to read a book.

 

[djt17]

My previous hobbies have included; hunting, fishing, golfing, & gambling. Homebrewing is by far the cheapest...even if I throw the beer down the drain, it's cheaper than the others.

 

[152Sumo]

My previous hobbies have included; hunting, fishing, golfing, & gambling. Homebrewing is by far the cheapest...even if I throw the beer down the drain, it's cheaper than the others.

My other addiction is kayak fishing. brewing is definitely cheaper. And when you take into account that you could probably sell a lot of fishing and hunting gear for a little cash, brewing is even more cheaper (I doubt that there is a market for used plastic fermenting buckets. I wouldn't buy em out of fear of infections)

 

[djt17]

My other addiction is kayak fishing. brewing is definitely cheaper. And when you take into account that you could probably sell a lot of fishing and hunting gear for a little cash, brewing is even more cheaper (I doubt that there is a market for used plastic fermenting buckets. I wouldn't buy em out of fear of infections)

Yep, I sold my boat last year, my third one. I wished had all the money I dumped into them every year! I also BBQ, that equipment isn't cheap either. But; my brewing & bbq produce some very tasty products. Doing both on a sunny MN summer day with a few brews is truly relaxing.

 

[JetSmooth]

My other addiction is kayak fishing. brewing is definitely cheaper. And when you take into account that you could probably sell a lot of fishing and hunting gear for a little cash, brewing is even more cheaper (I doubt that there is a market for used plastic fermenting buckets. I wouldn't buy em out of fear of infections)

I'm actually getting ready to sell my Epiphone Les Paul Standard Plus to offset the cost of my brewing setup. Bought it last christmas when I thought I would get back into playing (It's been a longer departure from guitar than it has been for brewing) and basically never picked it up again.

 

[TRainH2o]

I too would not buy bottles. My local recycling center has tons of them. Give them a good soak in Oxy Clean Free and run them through the dishwasher. You'll need about 52 for a 5 gallon batch.

I would recommend adding the clip on dial thermometer and a long stir paddle.

 

[doug1395]

Don't get me wrong its a great hobby that's why I do it and its one of the cheapest things I do.It does cost minimal money though .I sold some of my old hunting stuff on ebay and paid for my keezer build.That was the ony big purchace I have made.Its preaty easy to sell somethings on there to get you going.Plus with a new baby its a hobby at home.

 

[BlueSunshine]

Beer in Pennsylvania is 45% more expensive than other states so in the end I'm saving a little bit of cash.

A local beer distributor has Newcastle on special for $37 bucks a case. If I pay 48 bucks to make 2 cases of similar beer I'm saving some dough.

Just out of curiosity, how much do you guys pay for a case of Newcastle or Dogfish Head 60 Minute?

 

[PolishLogic]

I had the same thought as the OP, as I'm sure a lot of us did once. Granted I got into this for the experience, but I was curious about how long it would take to break even. My usual beer is roughly $17 a 12'er, so that's $68 per 48 beers (not including tax and redemption). I figure I'm in for about $400 in equipment (and another $300 will be added to convert a mini-fridge to a kegerator), and an average of $38 per kit. So according to my quick "guestimation" math, I'm saving $30 per batch, versus what it would cost to buy the same amount in the store. Meaning I should come out ahead after 23-25 batches. Of course this is assuming that I don't upgrade here, swap pieces out there, etc....

I'm currently working on establishing a pace to give me a new finished batch every two weeks, once my pipeline is running at it's optimum. So even accounting for things like adding another primary down the road to increase my pipeline output (or brew some longer beers without sacrificing my projected pace). I figure at best...as my setup stands now.... I hit a break even point in just over a year, at worst in about a year and a half.

Now, with all that being said, this cost analysis was something I really only gave thought to after seeing what kits were priced at, on average. My main reason for starting this hobby was to be able to enjoy beer I made with my own bare hands. As well as having some styles that aren't readily available without taking a 1/2 hour drive to the nearest local beer & wine superstore. Not to mention trying to concoct my own recipes once I get more knowledgeable about the process as a whole.

 

[doug1395]

Nice well done

 

[gunner65]

I shoot IDPA, IPSC, and Cowboy action and dabble with old BMW motor cycles so......Beer making is VERY cheap for me and keeps me home with the little ones. I can brew after they go to bed and its fun to get some of my old friends over to help.

 

[HairyDogBrewing]

...roughly $17 a 12'er, so that's $68 per case (not including tax and redemption). ....

The math isn't right here.
Your usual beer is either 17 per six pack or 34 per case.

I'll chime in to echo the general consensus that you can easily spend more on equipment than you can save on beer.
Unless you drink mostly Trappist ales at $100+ per case and can brew something you like just as much for ~$20 per batch.

 

[monk420]

a local homebrew store told me if u like drinking miller/bud/coors don't bother if u like drinking micro brews at 40/50/60 $ a case you'll save money in the long run (time not included just ingredents ) The time aspect is your need to enjoy the process of making something of your own then enjoying the fruit of your labors and mixing and matching to make diff. beers and flavors. If u don't enjoy it, it's like work and nobody like that. So when your making it have a beer while your doing it and consider it drinking and doing a task to make more beer, not work

 

[PolishLogic]

The math isn't right here.
Your usual beer is either 17 per six pack or 34 per case.

Good catch! I was thinking $68 per the amount a kit roughly yields (2 cases).

That's what I get for being on only my first cup of coffee when trying to post a coherent thought.

 

[RogueVassar]

I'm early on in brewing but I would say that I am already breaking even including the cost of equipment. I generally drink beer that is just over a dollar a beer. After a few batches, I've basically brought it to that amount already.

One caveat for me is that my wife and I drink more beer now that we're making it. Like a previous post, we don't drink a lot in one sitting but we're now having a beer every night when it used to be a couple or few times a week. So we're saving money "per bottle" but probably losing money "per month" to it.

I'm okay with that though because we're drinking more of it because it's so good. We're brewing it because it's fun to brew and I'm proud of what we create. It's just bonus that it doesn't cost us more...

 

[Rockchalk]

Yep, I sold my boat last year, my third one. I wished had all the money I dumped into them every year! I also BBQ, that equipment isn't cheap either. But; my brewing & bbq produce some very tasty products. Doing both on a sunny MN summer day with a few brews is truly relaxing.

Ahhh haaa... found me in here. I haven't brewed a drop (may give it a go this weekend) yet but in my garage/shop/soon to be brewery you'll find a nice boat and a ton of fishing gear, a kick @ss porcelain grill and also a bbq smoker. There aint no saving $$$ in hobbies... I can attest to that

 

[doug1395]

I also brew after my kids go to bed usually with a buddy or two. So I guess if you like craft beers its a great hobby

 

[goose1873]

At the end of the day, It's an awesome hobby. I love drinking beer...but I love making beer almost as much...

 

[Homercidal]

Excepting the kegerator and kegging stuff, I have saved lots of money. I built my own crusher, stir plate, etc. Some stuff I got at yard sales.

$50 for a turkey fryer. $25 for a 10G cooler and spigot/manifold. $40 for wort chiller (although I had a coil of copper in my garage from somewhere).

If I had to do it all again, I would buy a nice starter kit with AG in mind down the road.

Bottom line is: If you want to save money by brewing your own, you have to have the willpower to not buy or build every cool device you want. And buy bulk.

 

[Rockchalk]

At the end of the day, It's an awesome hobby. I love drinking beer...but I love making beer almost as much...

This is how I am with bbq'n (I use to compete). I can make way better bbq then you'll find at pretty much any restaurant but I prefer the cooking process to the eating part. In fact I did so much bbq'n I can't stand the stuff anymore... I still love to cook it though. I drink a bunch of beer and never get tired of it though.

 

[BrewDocND]

One caveat for me is that my wife and I drink more beer now that we're making it. Like a previous post, we don't drink a lot in one sitting but we're now having a beer every night when it used to be a couple or few times a week. So we're saving money "per bottle" but probably losing money "per month" to it.

I'm okay with that though because we're drinking more of it because it's so good. We're brewing it because it's fun to brew and I'm proud of what we create. It's just bonus that it doesn't cost us more...

I drink LESS beer when I'm making it myself. Some psychological thing about savoring something that I created.

 

[Synovia]

I'll chime in to echo the general consensus that you can easily spend more on equipment than you can save on beer.

Of course you CAN. there seems to be some insinuation that you have to, which isn't true.

 

[Bobby_M]

This must be a world record. It's rare that Bobby_M or myself wasn't the first to point out the labor cost when people "save" money brewing.

Instead of posting, I sat here for 18 hours just shaking my head the whole time. This is probably more productive...

I'm glad I come here for functional brewing advice and don't ask anyone with accounting help

The idea of something being a sunk cost for a FUTURE purchase had me LOL. The sunk cost concept is about making a finance affecting decision right now in light of all that has happened in the past. I'm sure you mean fixed cost. Dammit, why why why do I get roped into this one?

 

[Boar Beer]

It’s a slippery slope be careful.
If anyone had told me three years ago what I would be spending on this hobby I would have told them they were crazy
I save money on my Home brew if you figure only the ingredient cost.
I save money on my homegrown vegetables if you figure the cost of the seeds
I save money by cutting my own firewood.

But the $2000 green house and $ 20,000 Kubota
Could be considered sunk cost. (the wood splitter wasn’t free either)

The $$$ spent for a hobby with my son well that’s priceless

 

[artguy]

Good deal, but I would skip the bottles.

+1 to this. Also, since you would be paying full shipping on the Midwest brewkit, I would recommend trading the glass carboy for a plastic Better Bottle, which is a whole lot lighter and cheaper to ship (and I believe about $10 less expensive as well).

To your original question about cost, you can get going with brewing fairly inexpensively with a kit along the lines of what you were looking at. But, as you can see from the responses here, it's easy to get "bitten by the bug" and start acquiring a range of brew-gear that you couldn't have pictured needing/wanting before you started. I know that in the beginning I also found some surprise problems in the process that led me to spend beyond the initial kit (my flat-top electric stove couldn't get 2.5 gallons really boiling, so I needed a propane burner, for example). Also, the irony is that to lower ingredient costs requires doing all grain and buying in bulk, which obviously also raises the start up equipment costs (mash tun, grain mill, grain storage, large pot for full boil, etc., etc...)

All that being said, if overall cost control is a real priority for you, you don't have to go nuts with equipment purchases. Hypothetically, if you could actually resist the temptation to continually upgrade equipment and build fun stuff, you could probably reach a break-even point and start saving a bit of money within 20 batches...

...but it's a good idea to also be prepared to be dragged over to the dark side!

 

[monk420]

I'm starting out myself new and i'm buying brew kit / a secondary and prob and extra carboy with a 10g mega pot this way if i want to do all grain i have the pot to do it and turkey fryer since i need a burner anyway fig might as well get a stainless steel pot, Tell the wife gf it's for crab legs, lobster whatever. U get a burner for your mega pot and have a extra pot if u do all grain. If you decide to go that route all you really need is a false bottom and your good to go. Plan ahead and get stuff to start out with but also capable of growing with you. That way your not spending like 200 on a kettle now only to have to go spend another 250 in a year to do all grain

 

[phatuna]

If I factor in how much time I spend on this website, I think the cost to brew is about $50 - $100 per bottle

 

[Synovia]

All that being said, if overall cost control is a real priority for you, you don't have to go nuts with equipment purchases. Hypothetically, if you could actually resist the temptation to continually upgrade equipment and build fun stuff, you could probably reach a break-even point and start saving a bit of money within 20 batches...

Its way, way, way quicker than that as long as you don't have "blingitis".


$50 Turkey Fryer
$35 40qt aluminum pot
$20 Corona Mill
$25 Mash tun
$15 Fermenter
$15 bottling bucket

Thats $160, and has you doing all grain, and if you're buying in bulk, you're looking at $15/5g of pale ale vs $34 for 24 Sierra Nevadas ($68 a batch). You're making up your initial cost in 3 batches.

 

[artguy]

If you all could name one or a few things that you didn't have when you started brewing but realized after just a brew or two you needed (or would make the process easier) what would they be?

I would plan ahead for all grain brewing right from the start and buy equipment with full boils (for 5-gallon batches) in mind: basically, a 10-gallon or so boil pot & wort chiller. I would also just go for the next size up for anything I considered buying, rather than saving a few bucks on the smaller version and then outgrowing it. For instance, I first got a 2-gallon thermos to do partial mash brew-in-a-bag, then upgraded to all-grain batches in a 5-gallon rubbermaid cooler when I saw one on sale for $9, and now I've picked up a ~50 quart cooler so that I can do AG brews over 1.060; same pattern also was repeated with smaller-to-larger boil pots.

Beyond that, consider where/how you will do your boils and ferment. Can your stove get a bunch of gallons of wort boiling well or would you need to look at a propane turkey fryer type of set-up (I love brewing outside, and my stove sux, thus a propane burner is great)? Is the temperature where you would ferment naturally in a good range for whatever kind of beer you would brew (e.g. 62-70ish for ales), or will you need to use some kind of temp control to stay around that range? There are cheap & effective ways of cooling, for instance, but they tend to be slightly more high maintenance than converted fridges and the like.

Just my 2 cents based on under a year of increasingly passionate brewing...

 

[jjones17]

Its way, way, way quicker than that as long as you don't have "blingitis".


$50 Turkey Fryer
$35 40qt aluminum pot
$20 Corona Mill
$25 Mash tun
$15 Fermenter
$15 bottling bucket

Thats $160, and has you doing all grain, and if you're buying in bulk, you're looking at $15/5g of pale ale vs $34 for 24 Sierra Nevadas ($68 a batch). You're making up your initial cost in 3 batches.

Hey, great breakdown. You could take it further though, I think your numbers might be a bit conservative. A bottle of sierra nevada is .0937 US gallons based on the conversion I did. I fnid 53 bottles of Sierra Nevada = 5 US gallons.
Am I way out in left field? If not, that means at $1.41 a SN (as you pointed out), it costs $74.00 to buy as much SN as you can make in a 5 US gallon batch. Even my IIPA using craploads of grain do not cost $74.00. I have already recouped my initial costs, as you pointed out, on my lesser beers. I definately got into homebrewing to save money, but found doing PM or extract would never save me money in Canada since it costs so much more here to buy extracts. After going AG I almost never buy beer. I do though, always try to buy beer I have never had before on occasion. I like to compare. But anyway, if you buy all the fancy crap then yeah, homebrewing is not a money savings. However, you CAN save money by staying conservative. The time is fun time, since its a hobby.