Conan x WLP644 hybrid

[kjb290]

Right on brother!! NEIPA...beet puree...sounds like one of Tonsmiere's batches! How did you incorporate the beet puree? And what does it lend to the flavor profile?

Pureed a can of beets. Added 2 cups of water and boiled. Strained the liquid, cooled, and added with yeast pitch. This resulted in no residual favor from the beets. It's pretty amazing the difference between the wort flavor and the beer flavor. I had 13% flaked rye in the grain bill. The wort was pretty spicy. No rye flavor left at all. It's all grapefruit.

 

[popquizkid]

I would definitely be interested on giving this hybrid a try if you have any extra around. Sounds interesting and would make a great variation on my NEIPA recipe.

 

[isomerization]

I'm using F1/C4 in a pineapple Berliner (dry hopped with Vic Secret) next week, will report back

 

[TheHairyHop]

I honestly think that F1 suits a west coast IPA better than a NEIPA. The fruit goes well with bitterness and a crisp body.

 

[TravelingLight]

I honestly think that F1 suits a west coast IPA better than a NEIPA. The fruit goes well with bitterness and a crisp body.

I love both of these yeasts. But I've quit using them in my NEIPAs. I think they flocc too much for the style.

 

[isomerization]

I love both of these yeasts. But I've quit using them in my NEIPAs. I think they flocc too much for the style.

Have you done a side-by-side with the same wort/hopping/etc and different yeasts? I'd be interested to see 1) how much flavor variation you're actually getting and 2) if the yeast dropping out pulls out "juiciness". You can always roll your keg around a bit too, to get everything back in suspension.

 

[TravelingLight]

Have you done a side-by-side with the same wort/hopping/etc and different yeasts? I'd be interested to see 1) how much flavor variation you're actually getting and 2) if the yeast dropping out pulls out "juiciness". You can always roll your keg around a bit too, to get everything back in suspension.

I have not done a SxS yet. But that's on the list this summer. I just know that when I took the same grist and same hop bill and used WLP008, it was much hazier than the F1. I'll report back after doing a SxS. I know EcuPirate did a split batch with the two. But I can't remember if all the other variables were the same. I'll defer to him.

 

[isomerization]

I have not done a SxS yet. But that's on the list this summer. I just know that when I took the same grist and same hop bill and used WLP008, it was much hazier than the F1. I'll report back after doing a SxS. I know EcuPirate did a split batch with the two. But I can't remember if all the other variables were the same. I'll defer to him.

I meant a SxS with a yeast you've used before that didn't drop out, like WLP008 in this example. My preferred NE IPA yeast/base grain combo is 1318/GP, so I'm hoping to test that SxS sometime soon with either of these hybrids.

 

[TravelingLight]

I meant a SxS with a yeast you've used before that didn't drop out, like WLP008 in this example. My preferred NE IPA yeast/base grain combo is 1318/GP, so I'm hoping to test that SxS sometime soon with either of these hybrids.

Ohhhh my bad! Well, I have done sort of a SxS like that. When I brewed a NEIPA with 008, I still had a bomber I bottled off the keg of the previous one done with F1. But it wasn't a fair comparison as the F1 was at least a month old. And it had been in a bottle for roughly a month, but it was pretty damn clear. Not crystal west coast clear, but definitely not NE-hazy.

 

[runs4beer]

I love both of these yeasts. But I've quit using them in my NEIPAs. I think they flocc too much for the style.

In my experiences it's perfect for this style. The attached is a pour from a keg after a week on gas, probably a gallon into the keg. Plenty in suspension to carry over the hops
Cloudy with a Chance of Goo-balls

View attachment 1498582291694.jpg

 

[TheHairyHop]

but cloudy isn't the only thing that NEIPAs should have. I did the same recipe with F1 and 1318, and the mouth feel of the 1318 batch was in another league compared to F1.

 

[TravelingLight]

but cloudy isn't the only thing that NEIPAs should have. I did the same recipe with F1 and 1318, and the mouth feel of the 1318 batch was in another league compared to F1.

I just tossed in the first dry hop on the first NEIPA I've used 1318 on. I had been using F1 for a few batches. Then I did one with WLP008 which was my best one yet. So now I'm finally trying to famous NEIPA strain 1318. Anxious to see how it turns out. Should be ready to keg when I get back from CO next week.

 

[isomerization]

I just tossed in the first dry hop on the first NEIPA I've used 1318 on. I had been using F1 for a few batches. Then I did one with WLP008 which was my best one yet. So now I'm finally trying to famous NEIPA strain 1318. Anxious to see how it turns out. Should be ready to keg when I get back from CO next week.

1318 is my go to NE IPA yeast, it's just a bit of a pest to work with. I routinely get massive amounts of krausen (out of nowhere) during fermentation hoping. It is also one that the krausen hangs around longer than you'd expect. Worth it though

 

[TheHairyHop]

I didn't get any krausen issues, but mine was a monster. I reached FG in 4 days .i didn't have enough time to go through a ferm->keg dry hop schedule

 

[isomerization]

I didn't get any krausen issues, but mine was a monster. I reached FG in 4 days .i didn't have enough time to go through a ferm->keg dry hop schedule

I have started pre-loading hops when I pitch too (15-20% of total dry hop), only have an n=1, but I loved how the beer turned out, so we keep doing it.

 

[TheHairyHop]

I have started pre-loading hops when I pitch too (15-20% of total dry hop), only have an n=1, but I loved how the beer turned out, so we keep doing it.

Scott Jannish has a number of fine posts about it. I do a lukewarm hop steep, so I figure that I'm covered. It's amazing though. I once pre ferm dry hopped 4 oz of Columbus in 5 gallons, and after 5 days, I could only taste flowers and lemons. Very interesting

 

[Mer-man]

Scott Jannish has a number of fine posts about it. I do a lukewarm hop steep, so I figure that I'm covered. It's amazing though. I once pre ferm dry hopped 4 oz of Columbus in 5 gallons, and after 5 days, I could only taste flowers and lemons. Very interesting

How long was the steep? And you mean 5 days of fermentation, yes?
What yeast?

 

[runs4beer]

but cloudy isn't the only thing that NEIPAs should have. I did the same recipe with F1 and 1318, and the mouth feel of the 1318 batch was in another league compared to F1.

Nope, appearance possibly the least important really. I get better than normal mouth feel from F1 but haven't done a side by side with the yeasts you've reference. Also, I've only fermented batches with grain bills meant to enhance mouth feel, I do wonder what the actual glycerol production of this hybrid is vs. other yeast appropriate for this style.

 

[TheHairyHop]

How long was the steep? And you mean 5 days of fermentation, yes?
What yeast?

these were two separate batches. I usually throw the hops in at 150ish after chilling and then continue chilling until pitching temps. maybe 20 min?

the pre-ferm dry hop tasting was after 5 days, yes. I'm not saying it's pointless, but that beer certainly wouldn't have tasted like a Columbus hopped IPA. This was with F1.

 

[bb6kid]

Have you compared this to the Yeast Bays Funktown Ale?

 

[Capt_Yellow]

I did a few step-ups to the starter. The F1-C4 starter had a distinct pineapple smell but I used the F1 for this batch.

1.042 -> 1.012, 4.0% ABV, 4.3pH (final)

1021g (2.25lb) 2-row (43.9%)
1021g (2.25lb) red wheat malt
56.7g (2oz) acidulated malt
56.7g (2oz) flour (2.4%)
170g (6oz) oats (7.3%)

3.8g epsom salts; 6g calcium chloride; .55g baking soda in 3.5 gal. 160F reverse osmosis water => 113 Ca; 25 Mg; 10 Na; 200 Cl; 103 SO4. 153F mash for 90 min. Calc'd pH: 5.48.

Boiled 30 min: 1.038->1.046

Took off 1/2 gal for a starter.

First wort hops: 5g Citra; cube hops: 60g Citra; dry hop on day 2 of ferment: 60g Citra.

Fermentation: from 66F-75F with a 2F bump every 2 days.

Cold crashed.

Bottled with 2oz dextrose for 2.4 volumes, calc'd.

Results: Delicious! One of the best New England Pale Ales I've had. The mouthfeel reminded me of the ones I've had at Hill Farmstead. The nose was huge and wonderful. Carbonation was slight and appropriate with tiny bubbles that kept coming up. Appearance was a pale yellow, turbid. It was brighter yellow at bottling. Comparisons were made to grapefruit juice (by non beer-nerds). I got hints of peach, but I had more from the starters.

Next time: Galaxy and Amarillo are going into the cube hopping as well. I'll start at 68F for fermentation and hold it there to try to get more peach notes, because I love peach drinks.

 

[Mer-man]

I am going to take F1-C4 for a whirl today. I selected out the non-floccing yeast as I propagated up from the microvial, so the yeast I have ready to pitch has left nice clear starter wort over it.

14L batch size
100% Weyermann Pilsner
Bitter with Pacific Gem to 35IBU
2oz Citra and 2oz Galaxy hopstand

Targeting 5.33pH; water is 83 sulfate, 35 chloride

 

[matzou]

Hello there,
Would the blend still be available?
After reading some of the thread I would be pretty happy to try it and spread it in Spain.

 

[Mer-man]

So this beer turned out great. Here it is 2 weeks from grain View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1500883202.296289.jpg

 

[Capt_Yellow]

I did a few step-ups to the starter. The F1-C4 starter had a distinct pineapple smell but I used the F1 for this batch.

1.042 -> 1.012, 4.0% ABV, 4.3pH (final)

1021g (2.25lb) 2-row (43.9%)
1021g (2.25lb) red wheat malt
56.7g (2oz) acidulated malt
56.7g (2oz) flour (2.4%)
170g (6oz) oats (7.3%)

3.8g epsom salts; 6g calcium chloride; .55g baking soda in 3.5 gal. 160F reverse osmosis water => 113 Ca; 25 Mg; 10 Na; 200 Cl; 103 SO4. 153F mash for 90 min. Calc'd pH: 5.48.

Boiled 30 min: 1.038->1.046

Took off 1/2 gal for a starter.

First wort hops: 5g Citra; cube hops: 60g Citra; dry hop on day 2 of ferment: 60g Citra.

Fermentation: from 66F-75F with a 2F bump every 2 days.

Cold crashed.

Bottled with 2oz dextrose for 2.4 volumes, calc'd.

Results: Delicious! One of the best New England Pale Ales I've had. The mouthfeel reminded me of the ones I've had at Hill Farmstead. The nose was huge and wonderful. Carbonation was slight and appropriate with tiny bubbles that kept coming up. Appearance was a pale yellow, turbid. It was brighter yellow at bottling. Comparisons were made to grapefruit juice (by non beer-nerds). I got hints of peach, but I had more from the starters.

Next time: Galaxy and Amarillo are going into the cube hopping as well. I'll start at 68F for fermentation and hold it there to try to get more peach notes, because I love peach drinks.

As an updat, I have one bottle left and this was delicious! A lot of people got peach from it, but it's a note, not overwhelming. I started another NEPA with this yesterday. I'll try fermenting this at 66F.

 

[Mer-man]

So this beer turned out great. Here it is 2 weeks from grain View attachment 408501

A week later, the beer has dropped completely bright. It has a great mouthfeel.

But what I notice is that the malt character is definitely subdued. I also notice overripe mango, so I gotta dial down the Citra!

 

[teamrushpntball]

Anyone have either of the two hybrids available? Please pm me if you do, will gladly pay shipping/vial etc costs.

 

[xico]

I'm interested in trying these out. Could someone with access please PM me?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

But what I notice is that the malt character is definitely subdued. I also notice overripe mango, so I gotta dial down the Citra!

When are you adding the Citra? If after fermentation you might want to bring it forward, give the yeast a chance to turn some of the terpenes into something more citrusy.

 

[Mer-man]

That was a hot hopstand, no dry hop

 

[Mer-man]

I have spun up a big starter for my second round with this yeast. Tons of tropical fruit off the starter flask -- it's great.
I am growing enough to give a friend -- spread the love.

 

[milldoggy]

Just did a blonde ale with F1. Split 5 gallons off and added 5oz coffee beans, 2oz cocoa nibs, 2 vanilla beans and 4oz lactose. 3 days into the dry adjucting and taste amazing

 

[TravelingLight]

Just did a blonde ale with F1. Split 5 gallons off and added 5oz coffee beans, 2oz cocoa nibs, 2 vanilla beans and 4oz lactose. 3 days into the dry adjucting and taste amazing

When you added those to the split batch, how did you add the lactose? I assume you boil it in water first? Or did you just dump lactose in straight up?

 

[milldoggy]

When you added those to the split batch, how did you add the lactose? I assume you boil it in water first? Or did you just dump lactose in straight up?

At kegging, so fermentation complete. Boiled the lactose in water for a few minutes, cooled and scrapped it in. Let it cool to much, had to heat up some to get semi.liquid

 

[Mer-man]

My update is that I am going to stop using F1-C4 for now. I have a sample in deep freeze if I decide to revisit it. Big props to Kristoffer for sharing his work, but I do not really like the flavours in a normal West Coast style IPA.

I tried oxygenating to about 10ppm and it did not seem to make any difference to the nature of the fermentation; previously I had aerated to maybe 4-5ppm.

I am getting too pronounced alcohol and some weird esters despite using my Ale profile of ramping from 17C to 21C over several days. Maybe that's too cold for ideal use. Or maybe what I don't like is obscured by the normal use of this yeast (i.e. NEIPA).

 

[jakturner]

Has anyone fermented either one these yeast under pressure? I got an IPA riding at ~7 psi right now. Also when stepping these yeast up I accidentally mixed them together so it's a blend of both.

 

[TheHairyHop]

yea, I always ferment under pressure. I didn't notice anything of significance. I will say that others seem to have gotten more flavor from F1 than I did.

 

[makubex]

Both times that I used the strains, I did not ferment under pressure.

My previous experiences with WLP644 make me think that a pressurized fermentation has tendency to stress that yeast strain, and I've managed to get fusels from sacch trois in a couple batches. My evidence is only anecdotal, but the same recipe when fermented with 644 at the same temperature range, with the same pitching rate and same oxygenation, but with a blow-off-tube instead of a spinding valve did not have fusels.

 

[jakturner]

yea, I always ferment under pressure. I didn't notice anything of significance. I will say that others seem to have gotten more flavor from F1 than I did.

I'm new to using a spunding valve, what's psi do you usually use during fermentation? Do you have it under pressure the whole time or just towards the end?

 

[TheHairyHop]

I keep it anywhere between 8 and 15 psi while fermenting so that I maintain an oxygen free environment. I do it until I see it start dropping a bit, which would mean fermentation has stopped and whatever microleak that I have is winning out