CO2 coming out of solution in keg lines

[mdh384]

I've been troubleshooting an issue with my kegerator, and was hoping for some ideas on how to fix this issue.

The symptoms: after sitting for a while, as little as 15 minutes, I get a slug of CO2 in my beer lines. This causes problems with foaming, and frustration when I want to drink my beer! The issue is happening with all of my kegs and all of my beer lines.

What I've tried:

Replace all seals on the keg, thinking I had a CO2 leak. No joy.

Inspect/lube regulator to bottle seal. No Joy

Reorient fan in the keezer to push warm air down, hopefully get rid of any thermal layering. No joy.

Drop keezer temp from 4C to 2.5C. No joy.

I force carb at ~30psi for 36 hours, then drop to serving pressure. I was wondering if this might be my issue, however the problem is persisting throughout the entire keg and does not go away even after the keg being at serving temp/pressure for weeks.

Thanks for any advice on things I haven't yet tried.

 

[Yooper]

Did you try a different black quick disconnect on that keg? Is it only one keg, or all of your kegs? Have you tried new o-rings on the "out" post of the keg? There is one on the post, and then the poppit inside has one. Have you lubed those?

 

[Stillraining]

Try this:
Bleed all pleasure ( spell check got this wrong but its appropriate ) from the system or at least isolate the affected keg and then bleed if you have a split system, turn your regulator to zero...open your tap you should have no flow and very slowly bring pressure up to just the amount needed to dispense a beer. All bubbles should purge from the line with this method so look at your line keep the tap open the whole time! do not let it close while doing this.. continue dispensing till they are gone.
You may have to leave gas very low and purge your keg a couple more times before dispensing for a day or so and then bring it back up to normal dispensing pressure as the beer flow diminishes and carbonation level stabilizes where you want it.

 

[mdh384]

Try this:
Bleed all pleasure ( spell check got this wrong but its appropriate ) from the system or at least isolate the affected keg and then bleed if you have a split system, turn your regulator to zero...open your tap you should have no flow and very slowly bring pressure up to just the amount needed to dispense a beer. All bubbles should purge from the line with this method so look at your line keep the tap open the whole time! do not let it close while doing this.. continue dispensing till they are gone.
You may have to leave gas very low and purge your keg a couple more times before dispensing for a day or so and then bring it back up to normal dispensing pressure as the beer flow diminishes and carbonation level stabilizes where you want it.

Thanks, I'll give this a go

 

[mdh384]

So the CO2 vent of the keg and slow purge of the line has not worked... Any other ideas?

 

[Special Hops]

I have seen this before and I think it's air and not CO2. When it happened to me, air was being pulled into the beverage line. Mine was the little ferule between the pin-lock connector and the hose.

Between pulls form the keg, I would see small bubbles getting into the beverage line. Pressure in there must have been les then atmoospheric. and leak was small enough to let air in, but no beer out.

 

[mdh384]

I was skeptical, but decided to pull apart my beer line since I've got no other ideas. I am using the accuflex beerlines and push-connect adapters. Since the beer line has been holding in to the connector, i figured it must have been fine... but maybe not:

the keg connector, immediately after pulling the beer line out:


and after a bit of shaking and removing the connector from the keg post:


I've ordered replacement keg beer out, and faucet shank, fittings from Birdman brewing along with some new beer lines. Hopefully this fixes the issue...

 

[Stillraining]

Wow that's a new one for me...glad you found it. FWIW remember my method it does work, I have done it many times..obviously it wonk fix equipment issues...

 

[mdh384]

Well it remains to be seen if this fixes the issue. Parts are still en route, I will hopefully know if that was the problem once the parts arrive.

 

[wapitiscat]

Try this:
Bleed all pleasure ( spell check got this wrong but its appropriate ) from the system or at least isolate the affected keg and then bleed if you have a split system, turn your regulator to zero...open your tap you should have no flow and very slowly bring pressure up to just the amount needed to dispense a beer. All bubbles should purge from the line with this method so look at your line keep the tap open the whole time! do not let it close while doing this.. continue dispensing till they are gone.
You may have to leave gas very low and purge your keg a couple more times before dispensing for a day or so and then bring it back up to normal dispensing pressure as the beer flow diminishes and carbonation level stabilizes where you want it.

Ignoring the OP discovering the broken connector ... So your diagnosis would be over carbonation?

Todd

 

[day_trippr]

By the OP's use of the "serving pressure" I'm betting it's a combination of over-done burst carbing and too low a "serving pressure".
And if the "serving pressure" was determined empirically the beer lines are probably too short to have a proper "serving pressure" that holds the CO2 in the beer.

Finally, considering even a poorly set up dispensing system will have its CO2 pressure well above atmospheric there's virtually zero chance of "sucking air" into a beer line...

Cheers!

 

[cuda6pak]

Curious how this works out for you

I also have an issue with c02 coming out of solution in my upgraded 6 tap keezer with all john guest fittings on the beer line side (12' lines). First pour is usually half foam and fairly flat, subsequent pours are all perfect and fully carb'd. I have two computer fans mounted to the roof of the keezer and whether they are on or off makes no difference. Based on my description it would sound like airflow would be the culprit but it does not seem to help at all. I also changed to Intertap from Perlicks on my old 3-tap keezer. Lines should be plenty long enough for the setup. Wondering if possibly a rough cut (I used needle nose pliers) on each side of the accuflex bev seal ultra tubing, vs a super clean cut with an appropriate tool could cause a tiny slight leak, enough for c02 but not enough for liquid? But, you would think it would do it on each pour.

 

[Stillraining]

Ignoring the OP discovering the broken connector ... So your diagnosis would be over carbonation?

Todd

Hi Todd:
Tough question actually....To me and my buds we all agree kegging's only real negatives are issues with dispensing and carbonation.
What I have found is my system for a better term of explanation is that it can become "Gas Locked".

I actually stumbled across this phenomena and came up with my way of dealing with it by accident/necessity.

To Start,,,There are some truths and some myths (or un-truths) associated with carbonation levels, line lengths and dispensing pressures.
How can I say this? ....Because I can and do dispense perfectly carbonated beers form 10" long pick nick lines above what would be considered normal terminal end line pressures with a perfect head on the first pour. Not all beers are the same and some are tougher then others....just saying.

How I stumbled on the phenomena mentioned above is one day a keg I was dispensing perfectly with a short picnic tap I decided to switch that keg over to serving from the front of my kegerator. Instantly Got mostly foam!! Arrg! what the hell! Line length is 10 times longer, taps are installed with long shanks that keep tap constantly cold, Tap is clean, and there is no air ingress anywhere....again Arrrg! what the hell...
So heck with it...I disconnected and hooked up the 10" pick nick tap that was 10 min before dispensing perfect beer, and guess what same damn thing!! Arrrrggg!!! WTH!!!! is going on! Screw this I'm going back to bottling!!!:fro:

Scratching my head I had to figure this out ...I could obviously see foam in my lines so I said "I have to purge that out whats the best way"....I decided right then to turn off my regulator bleed all pressure off the keg and open the picknick tap...of course nothing came out as you would expect...so I did the next logical thing and that was to turn on some gas really slowly just enough to get flow while holding the tap open till clear beer came out holding the line up so all bubbles were expelled.

BINGO! once I did that I immediately got a much better pour...not as good as it was originally but livable. So what made the change and caused the issue?
To prove it I switched back to the kegerator tap and repeated the process....same thing, almost perfect pours now.
The only answer is that just the meer process of disconnection of one ball lock quick coupler under pressure and connection of another one "Can" introduce just enough air in your lines to cause WTH! havoc.

To this I am now convinced.

Hope I explained it clearly enough.

Carry on.

 

[wapitiscat]

Hi Todd:
To prove it I switched back to the kegerator tap and repeated the process....same thing, almost perfect pours now.
The only answer is that just the meer process of disconnection of one ball lock quick coupler under pressure and connection of another one "Can" introduce just enough air in your lines to cause WTH! havoc.

Come to think of it, I do tend to harass my keg connections as I'm moving them around or connecting a rig for bottling. I'll certainly give this some thought as both my kegs are pouring first pint foam/second pint fine (maybe more of a temp stratification thing though).

Todd

 

[mdh384]

So, new parts arrived and installed, the problem is NOT fixed. Tried doing the pressure release and line purge again, just to make doubly sure it's not over-carbonated, still getting gas bubbles (since I no longer know if it's CO2 or air...) in the line.

I am officially confused/frustrated/amazed by this problem.

 

[mdh384]

my serving pressure is ~10psi, with 12' accuflex tubing length. Issue is, I will get slugs of gas on every upward facing loop of the beer line, including straight out of the keg, so I don't think my problem is tubing length. Raising serving pressure does not seem to have an affect on the behavior... other than making the beer pour way too fast.

I am now a full 3 weeks out from initial carbing, with several pressure relief and line purge cycles performed. Would too much initial burst carbing have this long of an effect? I have used the CO2 pressure vs time cycle successfully for the past 2 years. this problem has only surfaced in the past month, and is happening on every keg and every line in my system.

 

[mdh384]

And by the way, myths, un-truths, etc, are now known as "alternate facts". heh.

 

[Stillraining]

Did you by chance change/refill your C02 when this started?

And Yes to your question "WAY" over carbonation will give you fits.....If that's it...then you need to turn off your gas and purge your keg 3 or 4 times a day for a couple days so it has a chance to off gas and normalize to your desired carb level of 2.5 or whatever it is..

 

[jerbrew]

Have you checked the outpost o-ring like yooper suggested in post two? Didn't see you respond to that. I can see that giving you this problem.

 

[mdh384]

From my first post:

Replace all seals on the keg, thinking I had a CO2 leak. No joy.

 

[Patrick87]

My advise to see if the kegged beer is still over-carbonated:

1) Turn regulator up to 15 psi.
2) Pour a beer to clear the line of any co2 "pockets". Use a big cup, cause it's probably gonna be foamy.
3) Watch the beer line. Did the co2 stop breaking out of solution and moving into the top of the coils? Did they slow down? If they stopped or slowed down, then your serving pressure of 10psi is too low for the level of carbonation in the beer.

This test should rule out over-carbonation and let you focus on equipment leaks.

 

[mdh384]

It is looking like the problem was a gas leak:

one of the kegs kicked, and just out of curiosity i left it sitting, detached from the CO2 and faucet line, for a couple days. when I went to relieve pressure to open the keg for cleaning, there was no pressure. The leak was slow enough that soapy water wouldn't bubble, so i don't know where it was leaking from. I rebuilt the keg yet again, and torqued down the posts to german rather than snug. the most recent keg is pouring beautifully.

 

[day_trippr]

Quickest way to check a keg is to gas it up and invert it in the sink...