Citra IPA hopping schedule

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VirginiaHops1

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I've done a couple kits but for my 4th brew I'm modifying one, to go for a Citra IPA beer. What do you think about the below hopping schedule? I pretty much can use the existing hops from the kits and only have to buy extra citra with that schedule. For the fermentables it's just 6lbs Pilsen LME and 1 lb light DME, no steeping.

Hops
1.00 oz Columbus @ 60
1.00 oz Centennial @ 20
1.00 oz Cascade @ 20
2.00 oz Citra @ flameout 10 min hop stand
2.00 oz Citra @ dry hop
 
It looks OK, but for me, the hops are not enough, if that's a 5 gal batch.

I usually use 3 times more hops for flameout/whirlpool and dry hopping.

If you only have the amount of hops listed above, use 0.5 oz Columbus for bittering and add the rest to a whirlpool done at a lower temperature and maybe take 1 oz Citra from flameout and add it to dry hop.

That would give you 3.5 oz late additions and 3 oz in the dry hop, and would probably be better, but still underhopped...
 
Ok thanks. I will have more Citra hops I could add. I was just going to buy the basic Midwest simply beer IPA kit and a bunch of Citra hops and modify it. I've been getting some flavors I don't like in my first couple extract brews so wanted a basic kit to experiment with a couple times and try to pinpoint the causes. I suspect the flavors are because I'm adding too much extract early on in the boil, but not sure.
 
I generally agree with @thehaze, and mostly in this case too. Yes on the new hopping schedule, but not quite on 3x the amount of whirlpool and dry hops in a regular IPA. That would put you at 6 and 6 oz here, yes yummy, but over the top for a non-NE IPA. I'd say 3 oz when the wort has cooled down to 170F or better yet, 160F and leave for a 20'-30' hopstand with intermittent stirring (or whirlpool). Then 3 oz for dry hop 3-5 days before packaging ought to do it. You could increase those to 4 and 4 oz, sure.

How much wort do you boil? If less than full volume (6 gallons), definitely split your extract additions proportionally. Say you're boiling only 3 gallons for a 5.5 gallon batch, add only half the extract at the beginning of the boil, the rest at flameout. It's that simple.

Now not boiling full volume, and thus topping up in the fermentor, will impact your hop utilization (bittering) somewhat, and possibly hop extraction with larger hop loads.
To remedy some of that, you should also top up your boil kettle (with some boiling water) as volume reduces due to evaporation over the hour boil. You could also boil in 2 pots, to reduce the amount of top up water needed.

Off flavors:
  • What kind of water do you use? If chlorinated do you treat ALL your brewing water with Campden? This includes all steep, boil, top up, and priming solution water.
  • What yeast do you use?
  • Omit secondaries
  • You need to prevent or severely limit any air (O2) contact with your beer once fermentation starts. This includes not lifting the lid of your bucket fermentor, racking to bottling bucket, and during bottling. Oxygen kills hop flavor and aroma quickly.
 
Thanks for the info IL. I have been doing partial boils, about 2.5-3 gallons. On the first 2 which are the only 2 I've tasted I did all extract upfront, per instructions. I'm guessing that's a big cause of the flavor(toasty caramel, bready) but as I move along I hopefully can pinpoint for sure. The first 2 I also didn't treat the water. On the 3rd batch, I treated the water with campden AND did late extract that but that one is still fermenting and I haven't tasted it. Maybe once I taste it I can compare but the first 2 were IPAs, the 3rd an amber so that could make comparing a bit difficult.

Yeast on all my batches has been US-05. I'm wondering about oxidation as well. I've been very careful with the fermenter and I thought my transfer to bottling bucket was pretty clean, but who knows.
 
I've done a couple kits but for my 4th brew I'm modifying one, to go for a Citra IPA beer. What do you think about the below hopping schedule? I pretty much can use the existing hops from the kits and only have to buy extra citra with that schedule. For the fermentables it's just 6lbs Pilsen LME and 1 lb light DME, no steeping.

Hops
1.00 oz Columbus @ 60
1.00 oz Centennial @ 20
1.00 oz Cascade @ 20
2.00 oz Citra @ flameout 10 min hop stand
2.00 oz Citra @ dry hop
I am doing my CitrAZ IPA right now, it goes into bottles on Sunday.


I did
.5 oz Citra 60min
.5 oz Citra 45min
.5 oz Citra 30min
.5 oz Citra 15min
1 oz Zythos 7 day Dry Hop

I'll feedback my results in about 2 weeks when I crack my 1st bottle.
According to my recipe, it should be about 65 IBU
 
Last edited:
I often dry hop about 48 hours after pitching yeast, especially for juicy IPAs. There is a lot of debate going on around the 'bio-transformation' you get when adding hops during fermentation. I also lightly stir the hops a few times over the first day to make sure i'm getting the most out of them.

I have also dry hopped many times once the krausen has dropped. I've only brewed about 30 batches of beer so I can't quite say what affect I've noticed, but pretty much all of my beers have turned out great.

Point being, you can pretty much dry hop whenever you want. If you have a decent idea of what your doing its pretty hard to mess up beer

A little more info tho:

Bio-transformation is supposed to help bring out citrus or tropical flavors, so if you want more citrus then maybe try dry hopping during high krausen/fermentation, but once again nobody knows for sure what is going on with bio-transformation and some people are currently studying it. If you are looking for other flavors from the hops maybe try hopping after high krausen.

Sorry that I didn't give you a specific schedule but instead general info, I hope this helps!
 
Thanks for the info IL. I have been doing partial boils, about 2.5-3 gallons. On the first 2 which are the only 2 I've tasted I did all extract upfront, per instructions. I'm guessing that's a big cause of the flavor(toasty caramel, bready) but as I move along I hopefully can pinpoint for sure. The first 2 I also didn't treat the water. On the 3rd batch, I treated the water with campden AND did late extract that but that one is still fermenting and I haven't tasted it. Maybe once I taste it I can compare but the first 2 were IPAs, the 3rd an amber so that could make comparing a bit difficult.

Yeast on all my batches has been US-05. I'm wondering about oxidation as well. I've been very careful with the fermenter and I thought my transfer to bottling bucket was pretty clean, but who knows.

You're on the right track!

Some brewing salt additions benefit the taste perception of beer, maltiness, bitterness, hoppiness, softness, among others. Without knowing your water composition, it would be difficult to advise what to add at this moment. Some taste tests using small amounts of dissolved Gypsum, Calcium Chloride, or even salt, added to a glass can reveal some of that. John Palmer even advises (extract) brewers to brew with RO water. You can probably get it from a machine at your supermarket or Walmart at $.30-60 a gallon, or use distilled water.

In any case, a Campden treatment is essential for any (municipal) chlorinated water. If your Amber tastes especially very clean then you may have solved that problem.

US-05 is fine. Did you rehydrate the yeast (according to Safale's instructions) and aerate the wort right before pitching? Obviously I'm still a strong proponent of (proper) yeast rehydration before pitching.

Having CO2 available makes it easier to purge air from fermentors, bottles, etc. But without it there are many ways to avoid, limit, or at least reduce air ingress.

If you use buckets, a tight fitting lid surely helps. If your airlock bubbles, the lid is usually tight enough.
When you know you'll be dry hopping, adding fruit, juice, syrups, wood, spices, etc, drill a 1/2" or 1" hole in the lid, pretty much anywhere where you can stick a rubber stopper in it and won't be in the way. I recommend opposite from the airlock, or in the center, if that works for you. When dry hopping (or adding anything else) you have easy access without taking the lid off. Preserving the headspace rich in CO2 is very important. The larger the hole the easier access, but also more CO2 will be lost when opened.

Careful handling while racking, priming and bottling also reduces air ingress. Cap on foam if you can.

Or look into kegging and using a CO2 tank to eliminate all or most air exposure.
 
I am considering using distilled water in a batch and compare how that tastes, as well as doing a full boil. Hopefully with enough experimenting I can dial in exactly what processes cause what tastes in my beer so I can avoid the ones I dislike. I didn't rehydrate the yeast. I think the US-05 packet said not to, but maybe I'll try that as well to see if it yields any improvement. I do want to get into kegging sooner than later, but I want to play around with it some and improve my beer before I shell out more $$. Thanks again for all the info, hugely helpful!
 
I am considering using distilled water in a batch
Definitely smell or taste the distilled water first. Some apparently have been chlorinated to extend shelf life. :tank:

RO machine water is a bit lower priced giving a fairly low ion content, as long as the membrane is working. Check the last inspection/service date and TDS content (lower is better) posted on the machine.

Most issued water reports only list FDA mandated requirements dealing mostly with pollution.
You can contact your water company and ask for the specific ion content "we brewers" are mostly interested in, usually given as ppm:
Calcium
Magnesium
Sodium
Chloride
Sulfate
Carbonates
Bicarbonates
Alkalinity
Hardness

Iron and Manganese if they have it, those should be low.
Some water sources are very steady from season to season, even after severe weather patterns, others fluctuate a lot, keep that in mind.
 
Thanks for all the replies. I think I'll bump up the flameout and dry hop amounts to 3 oz Citra and see how that goes for the first batch. If I want more I'll increase in the next one. Great suggestions for process improvements too. I think my plan is to brew this Midwest simply beer kit a couple times, with varying process changes to try to get a handle on what generates what flavors in my beer. After I feel more comfortable with my process and making good beer I want to move on to just buying ingredients from my LHBS and making recipes. Thanks again for the info, this forum is great
 
Looking at the 20 min additions - what are the IBU's for this batch? what is the OG?

OG is supposed to be 1.052.

I'm not really sure on IBUs. I put the hop schedule into brewersfriend.com and it said about 55 IBUs. But the Midwest website says 65 IBUs. They're doing the cascade and centennial at the 5 minute mark, and I'm at 20 so I should be at least as much as their calc if not slightly higher. I don't know the exact AA of the hops in the kit, and assuming they do maybe their number is more accurate. For my IBU calculation I looked at the hops for sale on their website and picked the middle of the AA range it provided.
 
You could take the Midwest recipe to your LHBS and get the ingredients there. Or elsewhere. Or piece it together from bulk ingredients. You could even forego the LME and substitute with Pilsen Light DME.
Now $23 for that kit is about as good as it gets pricewise. Even when you source ingredients in larger bulk it's going to be very hard to beat. Plus they include a package of yeast (US-05).

For example, LME goes for around $3 a pound at an LHBS, poured from a barrel. DME $4. Yeast $3-4. Hops $2-4 an oz.

When it comes to hops, LHBS tend to sell them by the oz (or 2 oz) at a pretty steep price. Especially for IPAs you can easily spend $20-30 on hops alone that way for a single 5 gallon batch. Some may sell pound bags of hops IF you ask them, they're rarely on display in the display coolers. But again, at a price.

You can buy hops by the pound or half pound from one of the more common mail order hop vendors, such as Yakima Valley Hops, Hops Direct, Farmhouse Brewing Supply, 47 Hops, etc. Even MoreBeer's Hopmarket has some decent specials from time to time. You will need to store them in a freezer, keep that in mind.
 
Yeah I was just thinking of doing a couple batches with it because it's so cheap, to (hopefully) get my process straightened out. That way I won't feel bad if a batch isn't great like the first couple I did and I don't want to drink them all.

I do want to move away from the kits soon though. I'll check out those websites you mentioned for hops though.
 
I'm not really sure on IBUs. I put the hop schedule into brewersfriend.com and it said about 55 IBUs. But the Midwest website says 65 IBUs. They're doing the cascade and centennial at the 5 minute mark, and I'm at 20 so I should be at least as much as their calc if not slightly higher. I don't know the exact AA of the hops in the kit, and assuming they do maybe their number is more accurate. For my IBU calculation I looked at the hops for sale on their website and picked the middle of the AA range it provided.
Don't sweat the small differences.
Our sensory system can't tell the difference between 60 and 65 IBU, even between 60 and 70 is a toss up. Plus the lower hop utilization due to half the boil volume with top up in the fermentor will play a role too. With half the volume in the boil, you need to crank out around 130 IBUs, that end up to be 65 after top up with an equal volume of water. Getting 130 IBUs is not that easy.
Hops
1.00 oz Columbus @ 60
1.00 oz Centennial @ 20
1.00 oz Cascade @ 20
2.00 oz Citra @ flameout 10 min hop stand
2.00 oz Citra @ dry hop

The recipe has the hops at 20', hence the higher IBUs. I think the idea is, per @thehaze, to move all late hops to the whirlpool/hopstand at say 170F or 160F.

If you decide to use more hops in the whirlpool you could split them, say some at 180F and the rest at 160F or 150F. There's still quite some bittering at 180F but far less to none at 160/150F.

How large a volume can your kettle hold, with say an inch and a half below the rim (headspace) left? You can quickly chill that wort down by adding cold water to the kettle after flameout.

Do you use a wort chiller?
 
Yeah I was just thinking of doing a couple batches with it because it's so cheap, to (hopefully) get my process straightened out. That way I won't feel bad if a batch isn't great like the first couple I did and I don't want to drink them all.

I do want to move away from the kits soon though. I'll check out those websites you mentioned for hops though.
Are you saying you'll be brewing smaller batches from a single 5 gallon kit, for testers?

One of my friends here on HBT buys (all grain) kits from Northern Brewer (NB) when they go on sale for $20. He buys a bunch, since it's a good deal, and qualify for the free shipping. He has just gotten to the point of starting to tweak hop schedules and adding more hops to APAs and IPAs.

Sadly enough, NB and MW are not privately owned anymore. :(

Your beer will get better with each brew. I'm confident once your water is sorted out, using lower boil gravities, plus the tweaked hop schedule, you'll amaze yourself.

BTW, you're not softening your domestic water, are you?
 
I thought about halving the kit to experiment but I'll probably just brew the 5 gallons for simplicity. I doubt I'll screw it up enough to not be able to drink it all. Hopefully after one or two batches I can get it tasting a lot cleaner and can move on to just brewing from recipes, not kits. I don't have a water softener. I don't have a wort chiller yet either, it's on the future purchase list when I feel like shelling out more $$ on equipment, along with the kegging stuff, probably before kegging though.
 
If you brew a half batch, you can do pretty much a full boil, without topping up (much).
Now it takes almost the same time as brewing a full batch, so there's the time investment.

Or brew half, but 2x, and juggle with the hops in each. They go in separate buckets, both in your ferm chamber, if you have one, and they'd fit.
Bakery departments always have 3-4 gallon icing buckets.

You can find brew equipment on CraigsList, I've seen many immersion chillers and kettles, even whole setups.
I'd say kegging is a major outlay, but it beats bottling for most day to day drinking brews. Again, check CL.
If you're the only consumer, half batches makes sense. You can even buy 2.5 and 3 gallon kegs.
 
Ok, I like the idea of the smaller half batches. I bought the hops from hopdirect(good prices) and they didn't have citra, so I went in a completely different direction and got cascade, chinook, centennial and some el dorado which was on sale. I think I want to try the IPA with heavy el dorado late additions instead of citra and do a citra later on. I also think I'm going to skip the kit and just buy DME and put it together myself. May not be quite as cheap but that's fine. Of the hops I bought what's a good bittering hop to pair with El Dorado, or does it not much matter? It looks like the centennial and chinook have the highest AA of the 4 I bought.
 
Ok, I like the idea of the smaller half batches. I bought the hops from hopdirect(good prices) and they didn't have citra, so I went in a completely different direction and got cascade, chinook, centennial and some el dorado which was on sale. I think I want to try the IPA with heavy el dorado late additions instead of citra and do a citra later on. I also think I'm going to skip the kit and just buy DME and put it together myself. May not be quite as cheap but that's fine. Of the hops I bought what's a good bittering hop to pair with El Dorado, or does it not much matter? It looks like the centennial and chinook have the highest AA of the 4 I bought.

You need to be flexible at times. The 2018 hop harvest comes in in a few months, so plenty of opportunities to explore different hops.

Bittering hops are not as critical flavor wise, most of their flavor is subdued after an hour boil, especially when you whirlpool and dry hop with large loads of rich flavor hops. In IPAs I mostly use neutral bittering hop such as Warrior or Magnum. I also use Nugget for an earthy herbal flavor or Columbus as it leaves a very dank bitter potion. I also like Apollo or Eureka for bittering, especially when it gets added to the whirlpool and dry hop. There are so many more.

Why not use El Dorado for bittering? It's a high %AA hop. Centennial would be good too. Chinook is piney, not a flavor that's in your other hops, but then again, it's a small amount and an hour boil drives a lot of that off. Then it gets drowned in 8 oz other hops' flavors and aromas.

Just store your hops in the freezer in the original bags. If HopsDirect still uses the thick silver bags with the large heat sealed flap, snip off a corner just large enough for dispensing. After use, fold over that open corner and the rest of the flap a few times while squeezing as much air out as you can. The bag should feel pretty solid after that. Then tape the now 2-4x folded over flap to the bulk of the bag with some packing tape. Then back into the freezer. Preventing air exposure and storing under extreme cold temps is the best way to preserve the freshness of your hops.
 
Thanks man, appreciate the suggestions! I thought about bittering with the El Dorado I just wasn't sure if it would work well for that. I guess some of it is personal taste, but so many hops and I'm still trying to figure out what they're all good at and what tastes they impart. I'll pick up some of the ones you mentioned next time I order and play with those. I'll go ahead and just use mostly El Dorado and see how that turns out. I was going to still mix a little Cascade with it in late additions to balance it out although in my googling I have seen some recipes with just El Dorado as the hop. But I read it can be fruity and even candy-like and want some of that but don't want it going over the top.
 
What a coincidence. I have also started experimenting with changes to the Midwest Simply Beer IPA kit. Just brewed one yesterday, though we did it a little backwards. Our plan was to do the kit as it comes first as a control batch. Then start playing around with different things. But we got ahead of ourselves and did a batch with some changes. Here's what we changed, and I'm worried I added to much hops for the 60 minute.

1. Steeped 1 pound of Gambrius Honey Malt specialty grains for 20 minutes at 155 degrees.
2. 2oz of Columbus hops for 60 minutes. Recipe calls for just 1 oz.
3. Added 1 pound of light DME at 10 minutes. This is why I added another ounce of Columbus hops. My thinking was to balance out the added malt and specialty grains. Was an ounce too much?

Kept the 5 minute hops(1 oz each of Cascade and Centennial) the same. Also added 1/2 whirfloc tablet at 10 minutes.

Final change is dry hopping 2 oz of Citra hops. Should I add more? Brewed it yesterday around lunch, and had good signs of fermentation this morning.
 
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