Cask kit?

[jacob5023]

I saw a cask kit online and was wondering if anyone has ever used one? I am still a newbie to the home brew scene and have only bottled my brew so far. I like the idea of using priming sugar in it instead of the co2. If anyone has used it, please leave a review or comment. Also, if anyone has a used one for sale that would be great! Thanks!

 

[Braufessor]

Depending on what you are looking to do, you may be able to accomplish the same thing just using a corny keg. You can prime your beer in a corny keg - like a bottle.

I recently bought a beer engine and rigged it up to serve from Cornies. The casks are pretty expensive...... and not sure what they provide that you could not get in another way.

 

[Zamial]

A link to what you are looking at would be REALLY helpful. As mentioned above you can use a corny keg and keg condition. It will even use less sugar.

 

[jacob5023]

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/homebrew-cask-kit-base.html

 

[Zamial]

Pins are great. Be aware that once you "tap" that you will need to drink it all in 24 hours or less and they are a PITA to clean. If you have a corny keg you can do lots with it a pin is a pin.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Pins are great. Be aware that once you "tap" that you will need to drink it all in 24 hours or less and they are a PITA to clean. If you have a corny keg you can do lots with it a pin is a pin.

As much as I love traditional English cask beer, that's why I haven't bought a pin or firkin. Even going up to two or three days, my wife would still kill me drinking that much. I've been trying to come up with a way to do it in smaller amounts. The "growler tap" thing seemed like a good idea if it weren't dangerous to bottle carb in a growler. Thought maybe one of those metal growlers would work, but they only appear to fit with the glass swing-top growlers that I'm aware of.

 

[brewmaster12]

A couple different breweries have a mini gravity pour keg out there that you can do the same thing with. I've done it multiple times with great results. They look like the picture below and only cost between $20-$30.

 

[signpost]

A couple different breweries have a mini gravity pour keg out there that you can do the same thing with. I've done it multiple times with great results. They look like the picture below and only cost between $20-$30.

You've re-used those mini-keg things? How do you do that?

 

[brewmaster12]

It has to be one that pours from the bottom- the Heineken and Newcastle ones won't work this easily- and you basically treat it like you would a cask. The top can be carefully pried out with pliers, then rack and prime like you would a bottle(just be careful with the amount of priming sugar- it requires less than if you were bottling). Seal everything back up and allow it to prime and condition. A couple days before you want to serve put it in your fridge- I usually do 1-2 weeks. The day you want to serve you have to vent the top by hand to allow the proper amount of carbonation to settle. After that, just pour and serve from the spigot at the bottom. Cheap, delicious cask ale. You won't be able to make it last more than a day or two.

 

[boscobeans]

A question concerning cask or real ales.

Cask (real) ales are brewed in the usual fashion as most beers to a degree.

There are two ways the process goes from there.

1. The ale is allowed to ferment out completely to a final stable FG. Priming sugar is added along with any finings and the ale is kegged.

2. The ale is allowed to ferment until there is still a small amount of sugars remaining, enough to produce carbonation. This still fermenting ale is kegged along with any finings.

In both cases the ale is then allowed to carbonate, clear up (brighten) and condition.

When ready the kegs are tapped and the ale is consumed. Unlike regular ale being served from kegs there is no CO2 being pumped in to push the ale or keep it carbonated and away from oxygen.

Cask (real) ales are either pumped out of the keg or gravity does the job allowing oxygen into the keg and adding to the flavor profile of the ale. After a few days if the keg isn't kicked it is changed out for a new one.

Aside from the oxidizing effects (over a period of time) on the flavor profile, how does this really differ from bottle, priming and conditioning an ale?

Serious question. Not trying to create a flamefest

bosco

 

[theck]

Question if anyone knows... Couple bars in my area have cask pours, I was checking one out and they have a co2 tank hooked to it and obliviously they aren't going though a whole cask in 24 hours. How do they have their system setup? Was.curious.

Sent from my SGH-T769 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[Braufessor]

I have a beer engine set up that I got over x-mas. I have run about 4 different beers through it. I have 2x 2.5 gallon kegs, and 2 x 3 gallon corny kegs that I am going to use going forward for my hand pulled beers. Basically, it all comes down to replacing the air in the headspace of the keg as you pump it out.
Traditionally, that cask (keg in my case) is just open to the air, and air can get in as beer is pumped out. Great if you are going through the keg in a relatively short amt. of time. If I had a 2.5 gallon keg and was having a party - I would just open the pressure relief valve knowing it would all be gone in a few hours.
I also have a small 5lb CO2 tank that I can hook up to it. I can do one of two things - open the pressure relief valve for pouring and then just purge keg with a blanket of CO2 to keep 02 away from beer. You can also buy or rig up a cask breather that will allow CO2 to seep in at very low pressure and keep blanket of CO2 on the beer and extend life. I have seen where people have made these from propane regulators. Or, you can buy them: http://www.micromatic.com/draft-keg-beer/cask-conditioned-dispensing-pid-CASK-B.html
That would be my guess as to what they are doing.
If you even leave a pound of pressure on a keg hooked up to a beer engine - it is like an open tap and beer will flow freely out as pressure builds up on it. Ask me how I know...........

 

[boscobeans]

Question if anyone knows... Couple bars in my area have cask pours, I was checking one out and they have a co2 tank hooked to it and obliviously they aren't going though a whole cask in 24 hours. How do they have their system setup? Was.curious.

Sent from my SGH-T769 using Home Brew mobile app

If you follow the strictest definition for a CASK ale no extraneous CO2 can be introduced into the ale or keg for any reason.

Maybe they are just putting enough CO2 into the keg to flush out the air that is vented into the keg as the ale is drawn off. This is still against CAMRA's definition and therefore is not considered a true cask ale according to their rules.

A keg of cask ale can be dispensed for a few days (maybe a little longer) depending on how the landlord handles the venting.

OMO

bosco

 

[Braufessor]

Aside from the oxidizing effects (over a period of time) on the flavor profile, how does this really differ from bottle, priming and conditioning an ale?

Serious question. Not trying to create a flamefest

bosco

I would say if it is just treated like a big bottle of beer - it probably has no effect at all. Generally, the beer is carbed to a lower level - but you could do that in a bottle too.
I have primed corny kegs and switched around the dip tubes and used the corny like a gravity cask. Basically, allowed it to rest on its side - bottom of cask elevated a bit higher. Short CO2 tube on the bottom with a liquid out cobra tap hooked up to it. Long liquid tube on top - so that the bottom of the dip tube is actually in the head space of the keg. put a CO2 disconnect on it. Pouring with gravity out of the small CO2 tube while allowing air in through the liquid dip tube to replace headspace. Kind of handy if you don't want to mess with lugging CO2 tank etc. with you (I have done it for parties in my yard, camping trips, etc.).......
Taste wise????? Maybe a little different. A bit softer..... Not major though.

Now, if you pump it through a beer engine and sparkler......... yeah, MAJOR difference. Makes the same beer taste very different. Soft, flavorfull..... basically similar to a beer on nitrogen in some ways. Or like a boddingtons can....

A bit more work and hassel - but I love british ales, and there is no beating one served from a hand pump.

 

[boscobeans]

I would say if it is just treated like a big bottle of beer - it probably has no effect at all. Generally, the beer is carbed to a lower level - but you could do that in a bottle too.

Now, if you pump it through a beer engine and sparkler......... yeah, MAJOR difference. Makes the same beer taste very different. Soft, flavorfull..... basically similar to a beer on nitrogen in some ways.

A bit more work and hassel - but I love british ales, and there is no beating one served from a hand pump.

I TOTALLY AGREE. +1

Basically all I brew are English session ales, most on the low end of carbonation so they are not as filling.

I think that you can get close to the pump and sparkler effect if you do a straight down the center of the glass pour to create a good head (also blowing off some CO2) then slow it down to fill the glass. Basically aerating the ale.

bosco

 

[Braufessor]

This is how I have mine set up now...

 

[boscobeans]

Love my ales...

Since a true beer machine ( like yours ) brings beer to the glass using vacuum and not pressure like a CO2 keg system I imagine depending on the distance from the keg to the machine (both total line length and head height) would come into play as far as resulting carbonation. The longer the line or higher the head height the more vacuum you have to use to draw the beer from the keg, thus pulling out some of the carbonation. ?? Just thinking out loud

bosco

 

[Braufessor]

Love my ales...

Since a true beer machine ( like yours ) brings beer to the glass using vacuum and not pressure like a CO2 keg system I imagine depending on the distance from the keg to the machine (both total line length and head height) would come into play as far as resulting carbonation. The longer the line or higher the head height the more vacuum you have to use to draw the beer from the keg, thus pulling out some of the carbonation. ?? Just thinking out loud

bosco

That is something I have not had a chance to play with very much yet -as I got it for X-Mas. What are your thoughts in regard to the issue of line length/Height of keg, etc....... Do you think I would be better off with a shorter or longer line/distance??
So far, I have basically just taken kegs I had on hand, and once they got down to a gallon or two left - I hook them up. I Just brewed 2 x2.5 gallon kegs of Dark Mild, and have 6 gallons of Boddington Clone fermenting and going into my 2 3 gallon kegs. These will be the first two I brewed/carbed specifically for the beer engine.

 

[dyqik]

If you follow the strictest definition for a CASK ale no extraneous CO2 can be introduced into the ale or keg for any reason.

Maybe they are just putting enough CO2 into the keg to flush out the air that is vented into the keg as the ale is drawn off. This is still against CAMRA's definition and therefore is not considered a true cask ale according to their rules.

CAMRA now (begrudgingly) allows the use of cask breathers (basically a CO2 regulator set to as close to 0 psi as possible) where the sales volume is low. I think (actually, know, since one of my friends runs the CAMRA Cambridge beer festival) they finally realised that forcing pubs to serve vinegary real ale was doing their campaign more harm than good...

He's even trying to get them to allow keg craft beers at the festival, on the foreign beer bar. Which is currently bottle only.

 

[boscobeans]

That is something I have not had a chance to play with very much yet -as I got it for X-Mas. What are your thoughts in regard to the issue of line length/Height of keg, etc....... Do you think I would be better off with a shorter or longer line/distance??
.

I guess it would be all up to the carbonation you want in the pour.
A longer line along with a head height of 10-12 feet (as from a cellar) would for sure pull some of the carbonation out of the pour before it reaches the glass and probably would give a decent head on the pour without a sparkler. Short line with less head height would have a more carbonated beer hitting the pump and would benefit from a high pour or the use of a sparkler to get the same effect as a keg stored in a cellar..

This is only conjecture on my part. Maybe someone who operates a true ale pub would have more info.


As far as CAMRA and CO2 goes this is from their site (camra.org/uk) as of January 2014:

"No gas needed

There are systems which dispense cask conditioned beer by gas pressure. Other systems store cask beer under gas so as to prolong the shelf-life. CAMRA disapproves of both systems and actively discourages their use. The first makes beer unpleasantly fizzy, the second interferes with the maturation processes of the beer. Such gas systems are not needed in a well run pub.

It is for sure a softer stance than in the past, but still not encouraged.

bosco

 

[dyqik]

Yeah, as I said, begrudgingly allow, where volume is low.

Homebrew would seem to be a perfect example of low volume. If you want some maturation, simply don't fit the cask breather until a day or two after tapping.

 

[boscobeans]

I think I'll start a little experiment tomorrow.

I'll open 4 bottles from the same batch of one of my English ales and taste one right away, then 1 a day for the next 3 days (the caps will be left off allowing the beer to develop as if it was sitting in a pub cellar with oxygen present.)

Results will follow.

Oh, what one will suffer in the name of science.

bosco