The Mad Brewer
The mad brewer
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2022
- Messages
- 159
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- 143
can you make a beer with no barley, using wheat and oats?
how did you sparge it?100% wheat definitely works — that’s what’s traditional for a Grodziskie. Regular malted wheat has a ton of diastatic power. I’ve made a 100% Lichtenhainer, and a 100% wheat porter once, too: white wheat, crystal wheat, midnight wheat, and smoked wheat. Came out well.
It’s all about BIAB.how did you sparge it?
What if you cant get Barley or its in real short supply. Also isn't the Ukraine and Russia the big exporters. I have been hearing rumors of a shortage coming.But why would you want to?
But why wouldn't you want to?
Wheat has more than enough enzymes. Oats and rye are generally able to self convert, but it’s a closer call. Oats need to be malted, of course, and there aren’t too many sources. When you’ve got a recipe, post it in the recipes forum and people can give you a best guess on enzyme levels.I guess I thought it had something to do with enzymes and you had to have barley for conversion..... this is interesting because I like to experimenting and want to try an all oat an all wheat beers.
Didn't the Egyptians make beer?
I guess I thought it had something to do with enzymes and you had to have barley for conversion..
What if you cant get Barley or its in real short supply.
Oats need to be malted, of course,
but you should be able to make a "beer" with any malted grain (oats, spelt, rye, etc.), or with a non-malted grain at around 50% with most malted base grains. It sounds like a good way to create some unique brews.
Now i have another question, Rice Hulls? Not the rice grains for brewing? Where does someone get them, my local brew shop?
The dictionaries I looked at said "grain often or mainly barley". Any grain can be used to make beer: rice wine is a misnomer as sake is actually beer.But is it beer?
If you look at the definition of beer in most dictionaries it says a alcoholic drink made with barley. Some use malt, but when you look at their definition of malt they say malts are usually made from barley.
And we could pull out the Reinheitsgebot Reinheitsgebot - Wikipedia
Many of us regularly violate that though since we also use priming sugar when we bottle.
You don't even need for it to be malted although you would probably have to use a lot more of it and want to drastically alter your mashing process by starting out with some low temperature promotion of enzymatic and biochemical pathways that would have already have taken place in malting.
You didn't quote the "either intrinsic or added" phrase referring to enzymes with which I predicated this statement.How would you propose producing alpha amylase without germination?
Also, how would using "more of it" be helpful? Whatever the amount of enzymes, they would increase, but proportionally to the starches that need conversion. i.e. use more grain and you haven't changed the diastatic power (degrees lintner).
You didn't quote the "either intrinsic or added" phrase referring to enzymes with which I predicated this statement.
Reminds me of the 60s line from Rowan and Martin's Laugh-In:The dictionaries I looked at said "grain often or mainly barley". Any grain can be used to make beer: rice wine is a misnomer as sake is actually beer.
Himalaya Chang is made from unmalted barley or rice or corn or millet, or a mix of any of these. They use a similar process as Chinese rice wine and sake brewers use. The unmalted grain is inoculated with certain molds and yeasts. The molds provide the enzymes to chop the starches into sugars and the yeast does what yeast does. I got 4 batches going atm, it's fun stuff.No need. "Added" wasn't the part I wanted to discuss. I agree that various enzymes could be added.
"Intrinsic" was the part I wanted to discuss.
You claimed "You don't even need for it to be malted although you would probably have to use a lot more of it and want to drastically alter your mashing process by starting out with some low temperature promotion of enzymatic and biochemical pathways that would have already have taken place in malting."
What "low temperature promotion of enzymatic and biochemical pathways" process do you propose? And how does using "more of it" (i.e. more unmalted grains) help, given that the avg diastatic power doesn't change?
Himalaya Chang is made from unmalted barley or rice or corn or millet, or a mix of any of these. They use a similar process as Chinese rice wine and sake brewers use. The unmalted grain is inoculated with certain molds and yeasts. The molds provide the enzymes to chop the starches into sugars and the yeast does what yeast does. I got 4 batches going atm, it's fun stuff.
Easy peasy. Drastically alter your mashing process by starting out at low temperature: begin by adding the grains to water at room temperature or a bit below. Leave them there for a few days, periodically draining the water for an "air rest" so the grain can breathe. Then heat the barley until it dries out, and break off any rootlets that have formed. Store for four weeks or more. After this "drastic pre-mash" process, you can then proceed with a normal mash.
Right. That's adding external enzymes. I'm interested in the "drastically alter your mashing process by starting out with some low temperature promotion of enzymatic and biochemical pathways" idea.
No need. "Added" wasn't the part I wanted to discuss. I agree that various enzymes could be added.
"Intrinsic" was the part I wanted to discuss.
You claimed "You don't even need for it to be malted although you would probably have to use a lot more of it and want to drastically alter your mashing process by starting out with some low temperature promotion of enzymatic and biochemical pathways that would have already have taken place in malting."
What "low temperature promotion of enzymatic and biochemical pathways" process do you propose? And how does using "more of it" (i.e. more unmalted grains) help, given that the avg diastatic power doesn't change?
didn't even think of koji...but i agree for stuff like rice and corn, you would have to start with boiling them to even get the starch available to the enzymes in the first place.....which would denature the enzymes....
If you mean malted corn, you don't have to boil it. If you did, it would, as you pointed out, denature the enzymes that were produced by malting. Moonshiners mash malted corn all the time. And I used it as the base malt in a beer recently. Gelatinization (and thus conversion) did take longer though.
Phytase, Beta-Glucanse, Proteinase and Peptidase activity was what I was thinking about - and diastatic power changes drastically with added enzymes. I was thinking that starches would be less accessible so more grist would be needed to get sufficient quantities to convert.
Clearly, enzymes for converting that starch have to come from somewhere. Adding them explicitly in some form, either refined or as malt is why I said "intrinsic or added". Of course, if you just keep adding one component, the relative activity will not change.
Mostly debranching as well as breaking down gums, amino acid chains and proteins - not new processes but steps that are usually unnecessary or abbreviated with highly modified malts.I concur with this, but what did you mean by "drastically alter your mashing process by starting out with some low temperature promotion of enzymatic and biochemical pathways?" What new process would do that?
Mostly debranching as well as breaking down gums, amino acid chains and proteins - not new processes but steps that are usually unnecessary or abbreviated with highly modified malts.
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