Can you Brew It recipe for Stone Arrogant Bastard

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bigbeergeek said:
You misheard what he said. He said there was a sweetness present in the homebrew that is not in the commercial beer -- they all discussed how Tasty's beer was (uncharacteristically) slightly under-attenuated.

C15 has no logical place in an Arrogant Bastard Ale recipe. It does not contribute the dark, raisiny fruit flavors present in ABA. C15 is lightly sweet like watered down honey.

I brewed my take on their clone with 14% Special B, the rest 2 row, and color/aroma/taste were on the nose. Period. For my future brews, I'm not changing a thing.
Click to expand...

Can you share the recipe you used?
 
The clone goes from 1.066 to 1.012 to get it's 7.2% abv. The hydro test on the stone sample finishes around 1.018. I'm thinking of upping the OG into the 1.072 range (90% two row, 10% 150C) and mashing a little higher. Maybe 150-152. Any thoughts? There's just got to be a difference in mouth feel from 1.012 and 1.018. But I fear the 80% attenuation of 007 will drop me well below the 1.018 and I'll get a 'hot' beer...and not the clone I want.

Edit: Well, I woke up around 2AM with revelation. I'm going to brew this today using the 1.066 OG, WLP 007 and the 148 Mash temp as per the recipe because that's what I have on hand. But my next brew, probably on black Friday, will be the 1.072 OG and a 150 mash. Here comes the kicker..... I'm going to use the WLP002. Why? Because I'm very familiar with 002 and how well it attenuates. My understanding is the two yeast are very similar, with the exception that 007 will get you lower. Maybe BYO was right all along. Of course it does leave a little sweetness, but I gotta try it.
 
Hammy71 said:
The clone goes from 1.066 to 1.012 to get it's 7.2% abv. The hydro test on the stone sample finishes around 1.018. I'm thinking of upping the OG into the 1.072 range (90% two row, 10% 150C) and mashing a little higher. Maybe 150-152. Any thoughts? There's just got to be a difference in mouth feel from 1.012 and 1.018. But I fear the 80% attenuation of 007 will drop me well below the 1.018 and I'll get a 'hot' beer...and not the clone I want.

Edit: Well, I woke up around 2AM with revelation. I'm going to brew this today using the 1.066 OG, WLP 007 and the 148 Mash temp as per the recipe because that's what I have on hand. But my next brew, probably on black Friday, will be the 1.072 OG and a 150 mash. Here comes the kicker..... I'm going to use the WLP002. Why? Because I'm very familiar with 002 and how well it attenuates. My understanding is the two yeast are very similar, with the exception that 007 will get you lower. Maybe BYO was right all along. Of course it does leave a little sweetness, but I gotta try it.
Click to expand...

duplicate post
 
Hammy71 said:
The clone goes from 1.066 to 1.012 to get it's 7.2% abv. The hydro test on the stone sample finishes around 1.018. I'm thinking of upping the OG into the 1.072 range (90% two row, 10% 150C) and mashing a little higher. Maybe 150-152. Any thoughts? There's just got to be a difference in mouth feel from 1.012 and 1.018. But I fear the 80% attenuation of 007 will drop me well below the 1.018 and I'll get a 'hot' beer...and not the clone I want.

Edit: Well, I woke up around 2AM with revelation. I'm going to brew this today using the 1.066 OG, WLP 007 and the 148 Mash temp as per the recipe because that's what I have on hand. But my next brew, probably on black Friday, will be the 1.072 OG and a 150 mash. Here comes the kicker..... I'm going to use the WLP002. Why? Because I'm very familiar with 002 and how well it attenuates. My understanding is the two yeast are very similar, with the exception that 007 will get you lower. Maybe BYO was right all along. Of course it does leave a little sweetness, but I gotta try it.
Click to expand...

Gotta love 2am brewing revelations.

Eric
 
Brew Type: All Grain Date: 12/13/2011
Style: Old Ale Brewer: ME
Batch Size: 5.50 gal Assistant Brewer:
Boil Volume: 7.19 gal Boil Time: 90 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.0 % Equipment: My Equipment

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
14lb .75oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 87.5 %
2lb .35oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 12.5 %
1.00 oz Chinook [11.00%] (90 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 37.8 IBU
1.00 oz Chinook [11.00%] (45 min) Hops 29.5 IBU
1.00 oz Chinook [11.00%] (15 min) Hops 16.0 IBU
1.00 oz Chinook [11.00%] (0 min) Hops -
1 Pkgs SafAle S-05

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.072 SG (1.060-1.100 SG) Measured Original Gravity: 1.076 SG
Estimated Color: 27.6 SRM (10.0-25.0 SRM)
Bitterness: 83.3 IBU
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 7.7 %

Batch Sparge

155F (apparently S-05 ferments out pretty well so I bumped the unfermentables up hopefully preventing this sucker from drying out too much).

I cannot get this beer in Canada unless I want to make border runs every week, so hopefully this will be my go to recipe when I'm looking for some SAB.
 
heliumbro said:
Brew Type: All Grain Date: 12/13/2011
Style: Old Ale Brewer: ME
Batch Size: 5.50 gal Assistant Brewer:
Boil Volume: 7.19 gal Boil Time: 90 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.0 % Equipment: My Equipment

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
14lb .75oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 87.5 %
2lb .35oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 12.5 %
1.00 oz Chinook [11.00%] (90 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 37.8 IBU
1.00 oz Chinook [11.00%] (45 min) Hops 29.5 IBU
1.00 oz Chinook [11.00%] (15 min) Hops 16.0 IBU
1.00 oz Chinook [11.00%] (0 min) Hops -
1 Pkgs SafAle S-05

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.072 SG (1.060-1.100 SG) Measured Original Gravity: 1.076 SG
Estimated Color: 27.6 SRM (10.0-25.0 SRM)
Bitterness: 83.3 IBU
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 7.7 %

Batch Sparge

155F (apparently S-05 ferments out pretty well so I bumped the unfermentables up hopefully preventing this sucker from drying out too much).

I cannot get this beer in Canada unless I want to make border runs every week, so hopefully this will be my go to recipe when I'm looking for some SAB.
Click to expand...

Personally, I wouldn't change the mash temp. WLP007 dries out like crazy, just as much if not more than S-05.

Eric
 
IMO:If I were to brew this again, first thing I'd change is the yeast from S-05 to something different not because it dried it out to much but because of the different in the yeast character, it missed the English character and was to clean. If I only had s-05 I wait to brew it.
 
Gonna brew a small batch of this soon, but I can't find Chinook, so I'm going to use Columbus.

Think it will make much of a difference?
 
dunnright00 said:
Gonna brew a small batch of this soon, but I can't find Chinook, so I'm going to use Columbus.

Think it will make much of a difference?
Click to expand...

Huge difference. It will make a great beer no doubt, but nothing like the resinous beast that is AB...
 
Columbus is a little harsh too (not that I don't like harsh), can you get northern brewer or nugget? If so I'd go with n. brewer for the early additions and nugget later or all nugget...
 
runs4beer said:
Columbus is a little harsh too (not that I don't like harsh), can you get northern brewer or nugget? If so I'd go with n. brewer for the early additions and nugget later or all nugget...
Click to expand...

To me Columbus is more onion flavor then anything else. I agree with the others that it will make a big difference in that Chinook is much more piney.
 
I made this before with Columbus and it was sublime. But Columbus is different for different people. Like the Maida guy above. He thinks it comes off as onion. To me it does not, but Summit definitely does.

If you like Columbus, then by all means go for it.
 
maida7 said:
To me Columbus is more onion flavor then anything else. I agree with the others that it will make a big difference in that Chinook is much more piney.
Click to expand...

you get onion flavor from columbus; on multiple brews? I use columbus quite a bit and I would never use onion to describe its flavor. Just curious if you had a bad batch, or something.
 
maida7 said:
To me Columbus is more onion flavor then anything else. I agree with the others that it will make a big difference in that Chinook is much more piney.
Click to expand...

I've used Columbus quite a bit... but never had any onion flavor.
 
dunnright00 said:
Gonna brew a small batch of this soon, but I can't find Chinook, so I'm going to use Columbus.

Think it will make much of a difference?
Click to expand...

I don't know if I would use columbus for all the additions. I would mix it up with some other hops for aroma and flavor but thats just MHO. As others stated it will probably be good but not AB at all.
 
EricCSU said:
Here is the updated recipe from the re-brew show:

SG: 1066
IBU 94.8
SRM 22.5

90 minute boil

90% US 2-row 6.5kg
10% Special B 730g

24g chinook 13%AA @ 85m
24g chinook @ 45m
24g chinook @15m
24g chinook @ 0m

WLP007

Mash at 148F

Notes:
The majority deemed this cloned, but Tasty (the brewer) believes that he could get the recipe closer and would like to brew this again. Jamil believes that the only difference is a slight change in aroma, which he believes is due to pasteurization of the Stone AB.
Click to expand...


Just racked this brew into a secondary and it tasted pretty darn close. The hop was just about right but I think it will fade over the next few weeks so I threw in the half-ounce or so of chinook I had left as a dry-hop. Even if it's not a perfect clone, it's going to be a keeper. And the recipe is dead simple.
 
I am somewhat embarassed to say this, but I have never brewed any of the CYBI recipes. I have planned to several times, but changed my mind. I just picked up the grain bill and yeast for Arrogant Bastard, so there is no turning back now. I will be using the 90/10 2-row/special B recipe with WLP007. I am brewing next Wednesday. Once finished, I will post pics and a triangle test. Should be about 6 weeks.

Eric
 
EricCSU said:
I am somewhat embarassed to say this, but I have never brewed any of the CYBI recipes. I have planned to several times, but changed my mind. I just picked up the grain bill and yeast for Arrogant Bastard, so there is no turning back now. I will be using the 90/10 2-row/special B recipe with WLP007. I am brewing next Wednesday. Once finished, I will post pics and a triangle test. Should be about 6 weeks.

Eric
Click to expand...

:rockin: Excited to see how this turns out.
 
Yah, the whole group agreed it was not cloned, and if I remember right, most said the need to mess with the #2 recipe. IMO, I would guess the recipe is simple, and why they call it arrogant bastard, as it is so simple. Why it troubles everyone is the process they have, and probably the well protected yeast strain they use. But honestly, make the #2 recipe and tweak based on your system.
 
The guys on CYBI I believe thought #2 is the closest. I believe Jamil thought that it may have been a difference because of pasteurization. I believe that because so many people request the beer they did not want to call it truly cloned unless they could 100% not tell the difference between the 2. But listen to the podcast and decide for yourself. To me, I trust the guys for in there tasting, and they said there was just a subtle difference but super close. I say brew it and judge for your self, can't be a bad beer.
 
I agree with what's been said above, the guys all agreed #2 was the closest with Tasty being the only hold out on saying it was Cloned. I've heard from Drunk of the Week calls that someone suggested that it was actually Caramel 150 instead of Special B. I wonder if they need to try 90 2-row and 10 C-150.

In the episode that had recipe #2, JZ did think that the slight flavor that made it Not Cloned was due to pasteurization. I can't recall where I heard this, but I don't think Stone pasteurizes their beers. Meaning that the grain bill must be the culprit.
 
Hammy71 said:
The clone goes from 1.066 to 1.012 to get it's 7.2% abv. The hydro test on the stone sample finishes around 1.018. I'm thinking of upping the OG into the 1.072 range (90% two row, 10% 150C) and mashing a little higher. Maybe 150-152. Any thoughts? There's just got to be a difference in mouth feel from 1.012 and 1.018. But I fear the 80% attenuation of 007 will drop me well below the 1.018 and I'll get a 'hot' beer...and not the clone I want.

Edit: Well, I woke up around 2AM with revelation. I'm going to brew this today using the 1.066 OG, WLP 007 and the 148 Mash temp as per the recipe because that's what I have on hand. But my next brew, probably on black Friday, will be the 1.072 OG and a 150 mash. Here comes the kicker..... I'm going to use the WLP002. Why? Because I'm very familiar with 002 and how well it attenuates. My understanding is the two yeast are very similar, with the exception that 007 will get you lower. Maybe BYO was right all along. Of course it does leave a little sweetness, but I gotta try it.
Click to expand...

I finally got around to this last weekend (90% 2 row and 10% special B). I didn't care too much for the 10% 150L I did with 007. I still think that an FG of 1.012 is too low. So, I've gone with the 002 and a higher mash temp and OG. Haven't taken a hydro yet....we'll see.
 
First hydro test today. Dead on 1.018. Right where I wanted it to be. My Og was a little high at 1.074, so a little more ABV. The sample wasn't as bitter as I was hoping. Beersmith has me in at 93+IBU. It's bitter...just not arrogant. I'm going to let it sit in the primary for a couple of more weeks than keg.

6 Gallon batch, 90min boil:

15# 13oz 2-row
1# 13oz Special B

1.2oz Chinook(11.8%)@ 85,45,15,0
 
Hammy71 said:
First hydro test today. Dead on 1.018. Right where I wanted it to be. My Og was a little high at 1.074, so a little more ABV. The sample wasn't as bitter as I was hoping. Beersmith has me in at 93+IBU. It's bitter...just not arrogant. I'm going to let it sit in the primary for a couple of more weeks than keg.

6 Gallon batch, 90min boil:

15# 13oz 2-row
1# 13oz Special B

1.2oz Chinook(11.8%)@ 85,45,15,0
Click to expand...

Hammy... what did the bitterness ratio come out on this?
 
Hammy71 said:
I finally got around to this last weekend (90% 2 row and 10% special B). I didn't care too much for the 10% 150L I did with 007. I still think that an FG of 1.012 is too low. So, I've gone with the 002 and a higher mash temp and OG. Haven't taken a hydro yet....we'll see.
Click to expand...
Interesting so what did you not like about the C150 only batch? I did a mix of the two and flavor seemed to be very close but the color was not quite as deep as regular AB hence I planned on only using c150 next time for more color.
 
First off thanks for all the info here. I plan on brewing this tomorrow but all I could get at my LHBS was english 160l i belive. what do you guys think about me using this? thanks in advance for the help.
 
jtejedor said:
Interesting so what did you not like about the C150 only batch? I did a mix of the two and flavor seemed to be very close but the color was not quite as deep as regular AB hence I planned on only using c150 next time for more color.
Click to expand...

Well, the flavor going into the keg, just seemed a little off. It's in the keezer waiting for an open tap, so I'll be able to give a better assesment when something blows. :tank: Kevin, not sure what variety 160l is.
 
EricCSU said:
I am somewhat embarassed to say this, but I have never brewed any of the CYBI recipes. I have planned to several times, but changed my mind. I just picked up the grain bill and yeast for Arrogant Bastard, so there is no turning back now. I will be using the 90/10 2-row/special B recipe with WLP007. I am brewing next Wednesday. Once finished, I will post pics and a triangle test. Should be about 6 weeks.

Eric
Click to expand...

Brewed on Wednesday and the starter, brewday, and fermentation have been going perfectly. I will probably keg in 2 weeks.

Eric
 
Opened a few bottles of my 1st attempt at this. It's been carbing for 4.5 weeks now. Wife and I could smell pineapple and bubblegum in the nose. Drank it way too cold at first so all we got was bitterness, but when it finally warmed up it had a nice grapefruit hop character. It's still pretty green and any distinct malt flavor just wasn't there yet (lot of strong alcohol)... anyone else have any experience with bottling this recipe? How long it may take to mellow? weeks? months? With roughly 7%+ ABV I'm guessing a couple more months, but don't want to lose those Chinook esters.
 
heliumbro said:
Opened a few bottles of my 1st attempt at this. It's been carbing for 4.5 weeks now. Wife and I could smell pineapple and bubblegum in the nose. Drank it way too cold at first so all we got was bitterness, but when it finally warmed up it had a nice grapefruit hop character. It's still pretty green and any distinct malt flavor just wasn't there yet (lot of strong alcohol)... anyone else have any experience with bottling this recipe? How long it may take to mellow? weeks? months? With roughly 7%+ ABV I'm guessing a couple more months, but don't want to lose those Chinook esters.
Click to expand...

"Bubblegum" and "strong alcohol" flavors make me wonder if you fermented the beer too hot. I started drinking my AB clone one month after the brew day (it was carbonated in kegs) and it was smooth and pleasant. Controlling the temperature of the fermenting beer is one of the best tools in a brewers arsenal. During the first 5 or so days of fermentation you need to keep the beer itself (not the room the beer sits in) around 65-68*F, which sometimes requires keeping the space around the fermentor some 5-10 degrees colder than the ideal beer temperature since the yeast activity actually warms the beer considerably. This is why letting your beer ferment in a 70 degree room can cause off flavors -- the beer could be above 80 degrees and the yeast starts kicking out some solventy alcohol flavors and funky esters.
 

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