erikrocks
Well-Known Member
Does anyone have the 4th attempt recipe handy? The CYBI episode seems to be offline and I can't find Tasty's final recipe anywhere. Thanks!
Can you Brew It recipe for Stone Arrogant Bastard
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fixitoscar
Well-Known Member
I didn't know there was a 4th attempt.
I finally brewed my version last weekend.
5 gal batch
87.8 2row
9.5% c150
2.7 c75
mashed at 149 for 75 min.
90 min boil
all chinook
fwh .75oz
60min .75oz
20min .5 oz
and .25 oz at 15, 10, 5, 0, min
thanks srtonebrewer for that hop schedule.
wlp007 at 69-70
c150 is a little hard to get online. Only place i saw that had it was austin homebrew.
I'll post results when its ready.
I finally brewed my version last weekend.
5 gal batch
87.8 2row
9.5% c150
2.7 c75
mashed at 149 for 75 min.
90 min boil
all chinook
fwh .75oz
60min .75oz
20min .5 oz
and .25 oz at 15, 10, 5, 0, min
thanks srtonebrewer for that hop schedule.
wlp007 at 69-70
c150 is a little hard to get online. Only place i saw that had it was austin homebrew.
I'll post results when its ready.
This looks promising. I haven't brewed once since new year. Want to try again at this later this year.
Be sure to post a side by side and comparison notes.
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Be sure to post a side by side and comparison notes.
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stewart194
Well-Known Member
Nice work everyone. I'll give this a shot myself sometime. Subscribed!
reddskinnfan
Well-Known Member
I am going for a 10g batch with the following bill, on 3/29:
26 lbs of 2-row
2 lbs of CaraAroma
1 lb of D-180 Candi Syrup
Stone's hop schedule, except 3 oz at FWH instead of 1.5 FWH and 1.5 @ 90.
149F mash temp mixed with Belgian Candi Syrup should get me a 7.2% ABV beer with both dry and malty characteristics (Stone trademarks). The hops will do the rest.
Will do side by side and tasting notes when ready.
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26 lbs of 2-row
2 lbs of CaraAroma
1 lb of D-180 Candi Syrup
Stone's hop schedule, except 3 oz at FWH instead of 1.5 FWH and 1.5 @ 90.
149F mash temp mixed with Belgian Candi Syrup should get me a 7.2% ABV beer with both dry and malty characteristics (Stone trademarks). The hops will do the rest.
Will do side by side and tasting notes when ready.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Home Brew mobile app
fixitoscar
Well-Known Member
ok bottled this last weekend. here are first impressions after looking and tasting my hydrometer sample. no pics until its carbed up and I do a side by side.
first i did not boil enough off. ended up with .25 gallons too much this resulted in a 1.057 og.
my fg was 1.011 color I can tell you without even having ab on hand is too light. and not red enough more of a gold color. Also the AB hop bitterness bite is not there, its much softer. Tastes good but just not right. I'm thinking changing the fwh and the 60 min both to a 90 min. to get that bite back.
maybe using c60 or more c75 to get that red.
I'll post the pics and notes when its ready to drink.
This is why I think it needs some chocolate malt, a little bit of roasty, without being roasted barley. I think the crystal blend is likely to be similar to the "English" crystal blend that had previously been used.
I've been super busy and no time to brew so far this year. I might consider trying a re brew in April. But already planning to do the three Vermont DIPA clones from BYO that week.
For bitterness, I think they are probably using extract. If they have it for their enjoy by, I bet they are using it wherever they can. I agree it's not got the bite that the real deal has. I wonder if it is the intensity of the boil, or not accounting for losses in the aa% for storage. I plan to double up on the bittering hops the next time I brew this. I am telling you though, I strongly think that the recipe is no longer a smash style brew. There are more than a single specialty malt in there. Only other thing to consider is if its the wrong yeast being used. San Diego super yeast??
TD
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I've been super busy and no time to brew so far this year. I might consider trying a re brew in April. But already planning to do the three Vermont DIPA clones from BYO that week.
For bitterness, I think they are probably using extract. If they have it for their enjoy by, I bet they are using it wherever they can. I agree it's not got the bite that the real deal has. I wonder if it is the intensity of the boil, or not accounting for losses in the aa% for storage. I plan to double up on the bittering hops the next time I brew this. I am telling you though, I strongly think that the recipe is no longer a smash style brew. There are more than a single specialty malt in there. Only other thing to consider is if its the wrong yeast being used. San Diego super yeast??
TD
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None really. It's more a work in progress...
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No choc or roasted malt in the recipe.
85-90% 2 row
10-15% cry120/special b
The range varies based on your system.
Chinook at 90, 45, 15 I target 90 ibus total using an even amount at all three times.
I use Wlp007. I have more luck with it finishing lower with 007 that 002.
People always underestimate the yeast when it comes to the difference in flavor between clones an actual versions of AB.
I also will dry hop for 5-7 days with 1 oz chinook for five gallons.
This recipe is simple. When overthought it becomes too muddled of a beer.
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85-90% 2 row
10-15% cry120/special b
The range varies based on your system.
Chinook at 90, 45, 15 I target 90 ibus total using an even amount at all three times.
I use Wlp007. I have more luck with it finishing lower with 007 that 002.
People always underestimate the yeast when it comes to the difference in flavor between clones an actual versions of AB.
I also will dry hop for 5-7 days with 1 oz chinook for five gallons.
This recipe is simple. When overthought it becomes too muddled of a beer.
Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
That fact that nobody has successfully cloned this recipe indicates it is more than meets the eye.
special B is reportedly not in the grist, and homebrewers who've used it, and posted results in this thread, indicate often it is either out of place or they used too much.
I do think that I taste a little roast flavor in the real AB, but not RB, and I suspect it may be a high temp killed chocolate that adds the reddish hue, and slight hint of roast, I think no more than 1.5% of the grist.
Also brewers who used a blend of c-150 and SB or c-150 alone at about 10% if memory serves! indicated that it was not right.
The closest I think as reported in this thread was use of the dark British crystal, such as the stuff more beer carries, which seems to be either a blend of crystal, or uneven kilning, I'm frankly not really sure, but they give the color as a range, not an absolute.
Also, most suggest there are no dry hops in AB.
TD
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special B is reportedly not in the grist, and homebrewers who've used it, and posted results in this thread, indicate often it is either out of place or they used too much.
I do think that I taste a little roast flavor in the real AB, but not RB, and I suspect it may be a high temp killed chocolate that adds the reddish hue, and slight hint of roast, I think no more than 1.5% of the grist.
Also brewers who used a blend of c-150 and SB or c-150 alone at about 10% if memory serves! indicated that it was not right.
The closest I think as reported in this thread was use of the dark British crystal, such as the stuff more beer carries, which seems to be either a blend of crystal, or uneven kilning, I'm frankly not really sure, but they give the color as a range, not an absolute.
Also, most suggest there are no dry hops in AB.
TD
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crusader1612
Well-Known Member
NZ is finally getting a keg of this at a Lola beer fest. I've not tried to homebrew it yet. But I suspect after next weekend it will be something to try. Looking forward to it. I'll try to take detailed tasting notes although it will be a little aged i would say. Given the length it's travelled.
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reddskinnfan
Well-Known Member
Okay, gents, here we go.
I am brewing my attempt at Arrogant Bastard on 3/29. I have a 3.5L starter of WLP007 going right now, which I will step up again with another 3.5L on Friday, after work.
I am going off my previous attempt at this, and the work put into this "clone" by Stonebrewer, Ultravista and TrickyDick.
As noted by the others, and which is my personal opinion as well, Special B is off in this recipe. However, it isn't that far off. Special B has a raisin/date flavor to it which is just a little "over-the-top". C120 and C150 get you close on color, but lack the flavor profile. So, I got to thinking.... I know, dangerous!
What grains follow closely in Special B's footsteps. Rather, what grains were created to meet the needs of brewers who didn't have access to Special B. Well, there were two that caught my attention.. Weyermann CaraAroma and British (Munton/Baird) Dark Crystal.
Well, Stonebrewer already tried the British Crystal and thought it was close, but still not quite right. So, I am going for CaraAroma. CaraAroma has a less sharp dark fruit (plum/raising/fig) flavor, has a more pronounced aroma profile, and is reported to be a little more "roastiness". I have also heard that CaraAroma has a tendency to provide more red color than just contributing to darkness.
As such, here is what I am doing:
Arrogant Bastard Clone - Old Ale (19 A)
Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 10.50 gal
Boil Size: 13.69 gal
Boil Time: 90 min
End of Boil Vol: 11.44 gal
Final Bottling Vol: 10.00 gal
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage
Date: 29 Mar 2014
Brewer: Michael Clements
Equipment: Keggle
Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 78.6 %
Ingredients:
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
22 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 86.5 %
3 lbs 8.0 oz Caraaroma (130.0 SRM) Grain 2 13.5 %
2.00 oz Chinook [9.80 %] - First Wort 90.0 min Hop 3 34.9 IBUs
2.00 oz Chinook [9.80 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 4 31.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Chinook [9.80 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 5 9.0 IBUs
2.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 6 -
1.00 oz Chinook [9.80 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 7 7.4 IBUs
1.00 oz Chinook [9.80 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 8 5.4 IBUs
1.00 oz Chinook [9.80 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 9 3.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Chinook [9.80 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) [35.49 ml]
Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color:
Est Original Gravity: 1.067 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.2 %
Bitterness: 91.2 IBUs
Est Color: 20.5 SRM
Measured Original Gravity: 1.069 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 7.3 %
Calories: 233.4 kcal/12oz
Mash Profile:
Mash Name: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Sparge Water: 8.68 gal
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE
Total Grain Weight: 26 lbs
Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Tun Temperature: 72.0 F
Mash PH: 5.20
Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 32.74 qt of water at 161.3 F 148.0 F 75 min
Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (1.81gal, 6.87gal) of 168.0 F water
Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
Carbonation and Storage
Carbonation Type: Keg
Pressure/Weight: 12.54 PSI
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 45.0 F
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage
Volumes of CO2: 2.3
Carbonation Used: Keg with 12.54 PSI
Age for: 30.00 days
Storage Temperature: 65.0 F
I am brewing my attempt at Arrogant Bastard on 3/29. I have a 3.5L starter of WLP007 going right now, which I will step up again with another 3.5L on Friday, after work.
I am going off my previous attempt at this, and the work put into this "clone" by Stonebrewer, Ultravista and TrickyDick.
As noted by the others, and which is my personal opinion as well, Special B is off in this recipe. However, it isn't that far off. Special B has a raisin/date flavor to it which is just a little "over-the-top". C120 and C150 get you close on color, but lack the flavor profile. So, I got to thinking.... I know, dangerous!
What grains follow closely in Special B's footsteps. Rather, what grains were created to meet the needs of brewers who didn't have access to Special B. Well, there were two that caught my attention.. Weyermann CaraAroma and British (Munton/Baird) Dark Crystal.
Well, Stonebrewer already tried the British Crystal and thought it was close, but still not quite right. So, I am going for CaraAroma. CaraAroma has a less sharp dark fruit (plum/raising/fig) flavor, has a more pronounced aroma profile, and is reported to be a little more "roastiness". I have also heard that CaraAroma has a tendency to provide more red color than just contributing to darkness.
As such, here is what I am doing:
Arrogant Bastard Clone - Old Ale (19 A)
Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 10.50 gal
Boil Size: 13.69 gal
Boil Time: 90 min
End of Boil Vol: 11.44 gal
Final Bottling Vol: 10.00 gal
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage
Date: 29 Mar 2014
Brewer: Michael Clements
Equipment: Keggle
Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 78.6 %
Ingredients:
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
22 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 86.5 %
3 lbs 8.0 oz Caraaroma (130.0 SRM) Grain 2 13.5 %
2.00 oz Chinook [9.80 %] - First Wort 90.0 min Hop 3 34.9 IBUs
2.00 oz Chinook [9.80 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 4 31.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Chinook [9.80 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 5 9.0 IBUs
2.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 6 -
1.00 oz Chinook [9.80 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 7 7.4 IBUs
1.00 oz Chinook [9.80 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 8 5.4 IBUs
1.00 oz Chinook [9.80 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 9 3.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Chinook [9.80 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) [35.49 ml]
Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color:
Est Original Gravity: 1.067 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.2 %
Bitterness: 91.2 IBUs
Est Color: 20.5 SRM
Measured Original Gravity: 1.069 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 7.3 %
Calories: 233.4 kcal/12oz
Mash Profile:
Mash Name: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Sparge Water: 8.68 gal
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE
Total Grain Weight: 26 lbs
Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Tun Temperature: 72.0 F
Mash PH: 5.20
Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 32.74 qt of water at 161.3 F 148.0 F 75 min
Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (1.81gal, 6.87gal) of 168.0 F water
Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
Carbonation and Storage
Carbonation Type: Keg
Pressure/Weight: 12.54 PSI
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 45.0 F
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage
Volumes of CO2: 2.3
Carbonation Used: Keg with 12.54 PSI
Age for: 30.00 days
Storage Temperature: 65.0 F
reddskinnfan
Well-Known Member
Didn't get to brew this weekend, due to weather.... :thumbdown:
reddskinnfan
Well-Known Member
Brew day is on for this Saturday. Weather is ready to cooperate!
Will post brew day notes when I have a chance.
reddskinnfan
Well-Known Member
2L starter made with 1L of thick slurry yesterday @ 5pm. Awoke this morning to a barely moving stir plate due to thickness of starter.
Gonna pitch half and save half (that's a lot of slurry)!!!
Gonna pitch half and save half (that's a lot of slurry)!!!
reddskinnfan
Well-Known Member
Conditioned grain and crushed - check
Whole leaf Chinook hops already broken up and ready for tomorrow - check
Brew pots outfitted and ready to be put on single-tier brewstand - check
Plate chiller and pump head sanitized - check
Yeast starter churning away - check
All systems are a go for tomorrow's brew day!!!
Whole leaf Chinook hops already broken up and ready for tomorrow - check
Brew pots outfitted and ready to be put on single-tier brewstand - check
Plate chiller and pump head sanitized - check
Yeast starter churning away - check
All systems are a go for tomorrow's brew day!!!
ultravista
Well-Known Member
Was that a fresh vial of 007 and is that starter decanted?
reddskinnfan
Well-Known Member
Fresh vial of WLP007. Starter stepped up twice, each time decanted.
reddskinnfan
Well-Known Member
So, grain temp 62f. Pot temp 60f. Strike water to 160.5f. Dough-in temp settled right at 149f.
Recirculating mash and heating sparge water as I write this post.
Pulling out hop spider and getting hops ready. Color of recirculating wort looks promising!!
reddskinnfan
Well-Known Member
Proof of brew day!
reddskinnfan
Well-Known Member
First runnings!
Sparge in a moment, then Pre-boil gravity reading.
Sparge in a moment, then Pre-boil gravity reading.
sandyeggoxj
Well-Known Member
Pretty color! What is your grist ratio?
reddskinnfan
Well-Known Member
85% 2-Row
15% CaraAroma
P.S. My first runnings gravity, per refractometer, was 1.085. My Pre-boil gravity is 1.057 (expected 1.054). I had .25 gallon more volume than I expected (miscalculation on strike water amount), too.
sandyeggoxj
Well-Known Member
Sorry, water:grist ratio
reddskinnfan
Well-Known Member
1.25 qt/lb
reddskinnfan
Well-Known Member
20 mins 'til I get my chill on!
Come on Arrogant Bastard, finish up!!!!
Come on Arrogant Bastard, finish up!!!!
reddskinnfan
Well-Known Member
I put that Arrogant Bastard in his place... right next to another 25 gallons (an IPA, Belma Blonde and an English Cider!
Save me a taste, bro! From tasting that grain, I think you might get real damn close. Drinking a year old clone of Alaskan Amber that might be the best beer I have ever brewed. Wow what a nice confluence of grain, yeast, and hops!
I'm looking forward to hear his results as well. very excited, and I will echo the agreement on the Alaskan Amber - its a damn good beer....
TD
ultravista
Well-Known Member
How do you like fermenting in the sanke? How do you clean and sanitize?
reddskinnfan
Well-Known Member
Love it. Use PBW and the Sanke version of the "Carboy Cleaner."
ultravista
Well-Known Member
Do you use any special hardware in the fermenting Sanke? Would you mind posting photos of the rig?
reddskinnfan
Well-Known Member
Just an orange carboy cap, with racking cane inserted in the middle opening. The cap fits on the opening (tight fit). I just attach a blow off tube to other carboy cap arm.
ultravista
Well-Known Member
Have you considered opening the top (ala Keggle) and using a lid? My keggle lid is glass and I've often thought about fermenting in that. If you can ferment in a bucket, why not a keg with a lid. For 5 gallon batches, a pony keg would be great.
Do you foresee any downsides?
Do you foresee any downsides?
TungstenBeer
Well-Known Member
So, I've followed this thread for a long time, and now I can finally post in it!
In February, I brewed an "Arrogant Bastard inspired" brew. Not really attempting an exact clone (case in point: the yeast selection), but I wanted to start with something similar and then go from there as I evolve it into my own recipe down the line. It could use a little more bitterness, and possibly a heavier dose at the end of the boil as well. BUT, it turned out to be an outstanding beer and after all, that's the point!
90% 2-row
7% Special B
3% English Crystal 135/165
1 oz Chinook (14%) FWH
1.25 oz Chinook 60 minutes
0.25 oz Chinook 10 mins
0.25 oz Chinook 5 mins
1 oz Chinook whirlpool
WY1217 West Coast IPA
In February, I brewed an "Arrogant Bastard inspired" brew. Not really attempting an exact clone (case in point: the yeast selection), but I wanted to start with something similar and then go from there as I evolve it into my own recipe down the line. It could use a little more bitterness, and possibly a heavier dose at the end of the boil as well. BUT, it turned out to be an outstanding beer and after all, that's the point!
90% 2-row
7% Special B
3% English Crystal 135/165
1 oz Chinook (14%) FWH
1.25 oz Chinook 60 minutes
0.25 oz Chinook 10 mins
0.25 oz Chinook 5 mins
1 oz Chinook whirlpool
WY1217 West Coast IPA
reddskinnfan
Well-Known Member
Unless you could ensure an airtight seal, I would advise against it.
That said, I have seen kegs that have been cut and plexi installed on them with a ring to alow them to be sealed. It would take a damn good fabricator though.
fixitoscar
Well-Known Member
here are the results from my brew. first a pic
Sorry for the pic I wish I could do a better pic. I want to build some sort of light box to get a better feel for the srm of beers that I brew.
Now to the notes.
Color is off. too light
That first hop slap in the face that AB gives you is not near strong enough in my beer. Also the strong lingering hop finish that AB has is not strong enough in mine either. I would say mine has a better nose, but i'm sure thats just from being fresh.
The head on mine is a light tan color, the head on AB has more of an orange color to it.
Malt taste on mine has a lighter crystal malt sweetness that comes through. The c150 toast is waaay in that back.
AB after I warmed it up and degassed it has a darker malt sweetness.
Tastes good, but not AB. I think I'm on the right track with the crystal malts I chose. With some tweaks to the malt bill and hopping I think I can get it much closer on the next try. Like everyone has said. These attempts still make good tasting beer. l
My planned hop changes are going to be taking the fwh additon of .75 oz and the 60 min addition of .75 oz and making them 90 min. I will also add another .5oz So that brings me too 2 oz at 90 mins. This should up the bitterness bite that I want. Also it needs to help balance out my malt change.
Next is adding more late hops. Hard to over do it here. i think adding .75 oz to the 0 min addition making it 1 oz. will help with that late hop addition character.
my malt change is going to be add more c150 to get the color i'm looking for. i havnt determined how much I want to add yet. I'm going to leave the c75 alone.
here are the results from my brew. first a pic
Sorry for the pic I wish I could do a better pic. I want to build some sort of light box to get a better feel for the srm of beers that I brew.
Now to the notes.
Color is off. too light
That first hop slap in the face that AB gives you is not near strong enough in my beer. Also the strong lingering hop finish that AB has is not strong enough in mine either. I would say mine has a better nose, but i'm sure thats just from being fresh.
The head on mine is a light tan color, the head on AB has more of an orange color to it.
Malt taste on mine has a lighter crystal malt sweetness that comes through. The c150 toast is waaay in that back.
AB after I warmed it up and degassed it has a darker malt sweetness.
Tastes good, but not AB. I think I'm on the right track with the crystal malts I chose. With some tweaks to the malt bill and hopping I think I can get it much closer on the next try. Like everyone has said. These attempts still make good tasting beer. l
My planned hop changes are going to be taking the fwh additon of .75 oz and the 60 min addition of .75 oz and making them 90 min. I will also add another .5oz So that brings me too 2 oz at 90 mins. This should up the bitterness bite that I want. Also it needs to help balance out my malt change.
Next is adding more late hops. Hard to over do it here. i think adding .75 oz to the 0 min addition making it 1 oz. will help with that late hop addition character.
my malt change is going to be add more c150 to get the color i'm looking for. i havnt determined how much I want to add yet. I'm going to leave the c75 alone.
Thanks for sharing,
I followed the same hop schedule as you did and felt them same. Next time I do this, I am doubling all hop additions and I am cranking the psi on the boil kettle to 4 for a hard boil and better extraction.
I think that there is a pinch of chocolate malt in AB. My last brew had a sweet finish though I hit my target FG, which I think is from the very small amount of special B I used. I think the roasty notes are from chocolate malt. I also foolishly put some special roast in mine as well.
If I had more time to brew, I'd have brewed version 2.0 already,
TD
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