Brown malt substitute

[ben2904]

I was at my lhbs an I was intending to buy ingredients of brown porter homebrew. They didn't have a brown malt (0.5kg) so they gave me amber/caraamber(0.150kg) and carabohemian(0.350kg, I think it was this kind of malt...can it be?)
So what do you say of this substitute? Is it ok? Should be go ok?
This is the full recipe
4kg 2 row
0.350 chocolate
0.350 bohemian (?)
0.250 wheat (they didn't have flaked wheat)
0.250 caramel
0.150 amber/caraamber (?)
30 gr H.N Brewer
30 gr E.K. Goldings
S-4 yeast



And how much corn sugar I need for a 20-22 liter batch?

 

[stpug]

My recollection says that brown malt is more of a toasty/roasty malt. A malt that was produced in-house by home toasting thus generating a toasty-roasty medium-dark malt without a whole lot of consistency but some nice attributes nonetheless. You should get some not-off-putting astringent notes and heavily toasted (or lightly roasted) notes. It also adds a drying sensation to the beer and doesn't really impart any sweetness.

Caraamber and carapils won't substitute at all. Caraamber is a crystal/caramalized malt very similar in process to regular caramel and crystal malts. It _might_ be close in color but that's about all. It'll give you some sweetness, little body, color, and dark fruit/sugar flavors. Carapils again is task-specific malt used to create body and head, and is as light in color as base malt but without much/any fermentability. This particular malt, even though it's a caramel/crystal malt, doesn't really impart much sweetness to the final beer. It's said that it's sugar structures (dextrines) are complex enough that we don't recognize them as a sweet substance but more a thick substance (thus body).

Amber malt on the other hand is going to probably be your closest substitute if that's what you got (caraamber no; amber yes). Still distinctly different but close. Probably mainly lacking the characteristic bite of brown malt.

 

[nickharbour]

Considering that you're crafting a brown porter recipie based on pale malt I don't think that brown malt is going to be as critical. You're color will end up brown and should have some nice flavor that is all appropriate to style. If you were doing a traditional style brown porter made of all or mostly brown malt then I wouldn't recommend those same substitutions.

 

[ben2904]

My recollection says that brown malt is more of a toasty/roasty malt. A malt that was produced in-house by home toasting thus generating a toasty-roasty medium-dark malt without a whole lot of consistency but some nice attributes nonetheless.

Caraamber and carapils won't substitute at all. Caraamber is a crystal/caramalized malt very similar in process to regular caramel and crystal malts. It _might_ be close in color but that's about all. Carapils again is task-specific malt used to create body and head, and is as light in color as base malt. This particular malt, even though it's a caramel/crystal malt, doesn't really impart much sweetness to the final beer.

Amber malt on the other hand is going to probably be your closest substitute if that's what you got (caraamber no; amber yes). Still distinctly different but close.

Ok thank you.
So I guess they gave me the amber.
They said they need a substitute for the brown but 0.5kg amber will be too much. So they have me 0.150kg amber and 0.350 of something else that has some sort of a darker color. I can't remember what it was.
Do you have any idea what they gave me combined with the amber as a substitute?

 

[stpug]

Ok thank you.
So I guess they gave me the amber.
They said they need a substitute for the brown but 0.5kg amber will be too much. So they have me 0.150kg amber and 0.350 of something else that has some sort of a darker color. I can't remember what it was.
Do you have any idea what they gave me combined with the amber as a substitute?

Perhaps a medium-dark toasted malt (special roast) or a darker toasted/roasted malt (pale chocolate, chocolate, roaster barley, black patent). It would seem that 0.35kg of a darker malt would be way too much so I doubt they did this. Why not just call them up and ask. I'm sure they'll have a good recollection.

 

[ben2904]

Perhaps a medium-dark toasted malt (special roast) or a darker toasted/roasted malt (pale chocolate, chocolate, roaster barley, black patent). It would seem that 0.35kg of a darker malt would be way too much so I doubt they did this. Why not just call them up and ask. I'm sure they'll have a good recollection.

Well, I'm pretty sure that is was 0.350 bohemian or cara bohemian (I think cara) because I've seen they take grains out of it's grain-cell thing. Still it can be something else but I'm not sure. I'll call them back tomorrow

 

[stpug]

Well, I'm pretty sure that is was 0.350 bohemian or cara bohemian (I think cara) because I've seen they take grains out of it's grain-cell thing. Still it can be something else but I'm not sure. I'll call them back tomorrow

You're probably right. I've never seen carabohemian and just assumed you meant carapils, but after having looked up carabohemian I see that it's right in line with the dark color of brown malt.

 

[Yooper]

Considering that you're crafting a brown porter recipie based on pale malt I don't think that brown malt is going to be as critical. You're color will end up brown and should have some nice flavor that is all appropriate to style. If you were doing a traditional style brown porter made of all or mostly brown malt then I wouldn't recommend those same substitutions.

Brown malt is THE flavor malt in a brown porter, and I would miss it greatly if it was left out! But for a small amount like that, it may not be missed as much.

As was mentioned, any "cara" malts are not a sub for brown malt.

 

[atonofhops]

Brown malt is made from green barley, it is kilned in an unmalted state. Perhaps the best sub would be victory or bisquite malt and toast it on a cookie sheet in the oven until it gets to the right color. Aside from that there isnt much else of a sub for it.

 

[drchris83]

Brown malt is made from green barley, it is kilned in an unmalted state. Perhaps the best sub would be victory or bisquite malt and toast it on a cookie sheet in the oven until it gets to the right color. Aside from that there isnt much else of a sub for it.

This is intriguing. Why is it called brown malt if it isn't malted? Since I don't have access to brown malt either, this could be valuable information for me as well.

To the OP: I have had great results with home toasted/roasted malts, even home made crystal. Simply pop pilsner or pale malt in your oven till it's done. A quick google search will give plenty of instructions, and I can only recommend getting a copy of Randy Mosher's "Radical Brewing" for information on this and many other topics.

 

[CadillacAndy]

Brown malt is made from green barley, it is kilned in an unmalted state. Perhaps the best sub would be victory or bisquite malt and toast it on a cookie sheet in the oven until it gets to the right color. Aside from that there isnt much else of a sub for it.

If it wasn't made from malted barley, why is it called malt? You'd think it'd be something like "brown barley". The brief research I just did said it was lightly toasted pale malt. If this is not the case, I'd love to have more info.

 

[chickypad]

If it wasn't made from malted barley, why is it called malt? You'd think it'd be something like "brown barley". The brief research I just did said it was lightly toasted pale malt. If this is not the case, I'd love to have more info.

Here is a BYO article on it. Sounds like historically it was definitely malted, and was used as a base malt. If I understand correctly today's versions are more roasted with less DP.

 

[CadillacAndy]

Here is a BYO article on it. Sounds like historically it was definitely malted, and was used as a base malt. If I understand correctly today's versions are more roasted with less DP.

That makes sense. It sounds like it still has enough DP to covert itself and is not the same as something like a less kilned black barley.

And it sounds like it was made from malt that wasn't allowed to germinate as long as other malt. Which is why it was called green malt. Makes sense. Cheers and thanks for posting!

 

[ben2904]

So what do you say about 0.350kg cara bohemian and 0.150kg amber as a substitute for 0.500kg brown malt?

 

[drchris83]

Look here:

http://barleypopmaker.info/2009/12/08/home-roasting-your-malts/

Highly recommended!

 

[chickypad]

So what do you say about 0.350kg cara bohemian and 0.150kg amber as a substitute for 0.500kg brown malt?

I've got Jamil's brown porter in the keg waiting for it to carb up, this is my first time using brown malt. In brewing classic styles he says the same thing Yooper did, that it makes the style. In that book and How to Brew they describe it as nutty, toasty, mild chocolate, dry rather than sweet, between amber and chocolate malt. Never used cara bohemian but it's desribed as intense caramel and I assume much sweeter than brown malt. I don't think that's the appropriate sub as others have mentioned. Plus there's already caramel malt in the recipe. If you don't want to try toasting your own as described in the link drchris posted, based on the descriptions I'd go with something like 0.25kg amber and 0.25kg pale chocolate.

 

[Yooper]

So what do you say about 0.350kg cara bohemian and 0.150kg amber as a substitute for 0.500kg brown malt?

No. No cara- type malt is a close sub. That's a caramel/crystal malt and should not be subbed. The color might be close, but they are totally different grains, and the cara malt is sweet.

The amber malt is closest, but not as "toasty/roasty".

 

[bierhaus15]

If you want to use brown malt, you really need to buy it. Your not going to get the same depth and complexity of flavor through a combination of other malts or attempts at making the stuff at home in your oven. You ain't going to find anything else like it.

Also, it is worth mentioning that if you want to use the real brown malt, find the Thomas Fawcett stuff. The other varieties are much lighter and more akin to an amber malt. 65-75L is the color you should look for.

 

[IslandLizard]

According the Annapolis Home Brew Shop's Grain list Briess calls it "Special Roast (brown malt)," 50°L.

Under Muntons it's listed as "Amber/Brown," 25°L, probably too light in color and flavor.

All are listed as specialty malts, in the same category as Victory, Biscuit, Aromatic, Honey malt, etc. I doubt it has much or any Diastatic Power as such.

I've seen brown malt listed elsewhere as being home roasted to re-create the traditional.