Brewpastor- How do you defend beer and wine to your church?

[Todd]

I seems everyone I know is into church is against beer or wine. What does everyone else run into? I know brewpastor is or was a pastor so how did your church handle this?

 

[anthrobe]

I started praying to the beer gods

 

[the_bird]

You cannot generalize about "church" or "churchgoers" generally. Some are more extreme, others more relaxed. That's true of denominations generally and certainly among the individual congregants.

Besides, how can beer and wine be bad? Jesus was a winemaker, wasn't he?

 

[rdwj]

There are plenty of references to drinking wine in the bible - dancing too.

 

[Todd]

There are plenty of references to drinking wine in the bible - dancing too.

I have said that, my dad tries to say it is not comparable since they needed wine to store water (true) then he claims that we bred yeast to get high aclohol beer.. He is clueless..

Then he throws out the true problem and that is some people will abuse it.

He is not the one who has the problem with it, I was just discussing it with him.

 

[user 4295]

Abstinence is not a fruit of the Spirit of God. However, self control is.

John

 

[rdwj]

Then he throws out the true problem and that is some people will abuse it.

Some people abuse food - that's no reason to keep the rest of us from enjoying it in a responsible manner.

My dad and step mother used to believe in a very strict religious code like that and I went to a school where that nonsense was preached. I bought into it early, but very quickly saw it for what it is - pure crap.

The only thing I'll say is that it's AMAZING how many VERY bad things people that are against drinking and dancing get caught doing.

 

[Buford]

I wouldn't see why it's an issue. Heck, Trappist beers are made by monks. Granted, there are major diferences among the various branches of Christianity, but the justification all derives from the same source material.

 

[homebrewer_99]

There are plenty of references to drinking wine in the bible - dancing too.

True, but most of the holy rollers will say you aren't supposed to get drunk...doesn't say anything about not drinking...it only says don't get drunk.

Chances are the anti-drunk campaign started after the ark landed and Noah got drunk on wine and passed out then his son sodomized him. That wasn't Noah's fault...and that didn't make him gay IMO. He was just a victim.

 

[rdwj]

...Chances are the anti-drunk campaign started after the ark landed and Noah got drunk on wine and passed out then his son sodomized him.

Staying sober enough to fight off sodomization is probably a good benchmark

 

[Caplan]

A Religious debate tenuously linked to beer. Hmmm.....where's Dude?

 

[homebrewer_99]

Staying sober enough to fight off sodomization is probably a good benchmark

True, there'd probably more straight-laced tea drinkers if they advertised about the evils of drinking that way...

 

[Todd]

A Religious debate tenuously linked to beer. Hmmm.....where's Dude?

I don't want this locked, I was seriously looking to understand both sides better.

 

[Todd]

Does anyone know if there is any merit to this statement refering to wine in bible times..

First off, for background purposes, the wine that was made and used in celebrations during Bible times, was highly highly diluted. You had to drink a ton of that stuff to get drunk. A typical wine at a wedding in those times didn't have much alchohol in it at all.

 

[david_42]

Even in the USA a relatively small segment of religious folk are anti-alcohol. They just tend to be really loud about it. I suspect it goes back to the English sects that were prominent in the colonial days, who thought that just about anything enjoyable was bad. Commonly called the "Puritan ethic", but the Puritans weren't the worst.

Growing up in the Midwestern bible belt and being subjected to eight years of Lutheran schooling, I can say that moderation in drinking was just fine. When it interfered with your work, family or community; it was condemned. I strongly suspect the worst of the antis are people that can't control their consumption and are hypocritical about it.

 

[Genghis77]

Water was a great source of typhoid and many other diseases prior to the early part of the 20th Century. On the Mayflower, each person was allotted a gallon of beer per day. Egypt supplied pyramid builders with a gallon and a half of beer vper day. Wine during all these millinium was reserved for the wealthier classes. The reason being it was much higher in alcohol. While too much alcohol might have been tough on the liver, water borne diseases would put you in a grave or funeral pyre a whole lot faster. Alcohol content was determined by fruit content, though honey could be added if you were very wealthy. Sugar was not yet available until the discovery of sugar cane in the Americas.

As to religious prohibition of drinking, that was a phenonomon that developed in the 1800's by later Protestant offshoots, in particular followers of William Miller in the 1820's. The Catholic Church as well as the beginning Protestant movements (Luthern, Church of England) and others have no prohibitions on using alcohol, as do Mormons, Baptists, 7th Day Adventists etc. Even Islam is divided on the issue of alcohol. Apparently it is to be denied on earth but will be abundantly provided by your 72 virgins in paradice.

Remember, even Prohibition was intended only to keep others from drinking (especially Germans and Irish troublemakers during the First World War) Prohibition was never meant to be applied to the rest of Americans, especially the mainstream and wealthier classes. Alcohol use it attributed to crime and violence. Used in excess, that is fact. And that concept places people against it. Alcohol causes some 16,000 US traffic deaths per year. Though cell phones cause 24,000.

As to alcohol in Bible times it was probably between 12 and 14% for the good stuff. Beer was probably in the region of 3 to 4% So, yes it was a bit weaker but not because they preferred weak brews. And I know of nothing in the Bible that prohibits alcohol, quite the countrary. It only speaks of excessive use without the purpose of medicinal or uplifting of spirits when depressed.

Rome conquered the Middle East for one purpose: to obtain opium from India, Pakistan, Persia. For the Roman army operated with ruthless efficiency on opium. Signifficantly a more powerful drug than alcohol.

 

[Chairman Cheyco]

I don't want this locked, I was seriously looking to understand both sides better.

Then you can PM him about it. Rules are rules.

Locked.