Better Bottles vs. other PET carboys

[marquette048]

I have read many of the Better Bottle vs. glass carboy threads, but have not seen any threads comparing Better Bottles to other kinds PET carboys. I have seen PET carboys on sites such as Brewmasters Warehouse and the Vintage Shop Carboys that Williams Brewing sells.

I presently use glass, but I am thinking about switching over to some form of PET bottle. I like these above mentioned PET carboys, but don't know how rugged they are compared to the Better Bottles. They appear to be easy to clean with the vertical, smooth walls.

Has anyone one had any experience with these and can give comparisons between the two?

 

[Revvy]

In reality a fermenter is a fermenter is a fermenter.....glass, plastic, carboy, bucket, jerry can, keg, milk jug, ceramic crock, glass hurricane jar, stainless steel or plastic conicals, pet food storage vessels (vittle vaults), HD or Lowe's buckets, frosting buckets, water jugs, the old Mr Beer jug...All of those and anything you can think of, all work perfectly fine, and have been used by hundreds if not thousands of brewers...

No one type is better or worse than any other...good beer or crappy beer can be made in all of them, dependant onthe brewer, NOT what it's fermented in...

It's really just a matter of preference, nothing more....There's tons of arguments about glass vs plastic and whatever, but they're nothing more than internet masturbation....the yeast don't give a flying ****ady what kind of container the wort it is swimming in.

It really isn't rocket science, it's really about using what works for you.

 

[marquette048]

In reality a fermenter is a fermenter is a fermenter.....

If there is a difference between material thickness (ruggedness and longevity) I'd just assume have that one. Both are about the same $$$ so if there is a difference...why not?

 

[cl330b]

I have experience with he VS carboy but not the BB. I am also curious to hear what others have to say. I do know from handling the BB at my LHBS that the VS carboy has a thicker bottom. The sides seem very similar in sturdiness but the VS carboy looks sexier. As far as cleaning, I just use PBW on my VS carboy and that's it. Just let it soak in warm, not hot, but warm water, rinse and repeat. No scratches ever to speak of. I recently switched from glass back to the VS carboy. I have owned some for quite a while, gave them to my homebrew buddies, bought glass, and now I'm switching back again. I'm curious to see what others who have used both have to say.

 

[MalFet]

In reality a fermenter is a fermenter is a fermenter.....glass, plastic, carboy, bucket, jerry can, keg, milk jug, ceramic crock, glass hurricane jar, stainless steel or plastic conicals, pet food storage vessels (vittle vaults), HD or Lowe's buckets, frosting buckets, water jugs, the old Mr Beer jug...All of those and anything you can think of, all work perfectly fine, and have been used by hundreds if not thousands of brewers...

One time I tried fermenting in a jute sack. It totally didn't work.

 

[marquette048]

I have experience with he VS carboy but not the BB. I am also curious to hear what others have to say. I do know from handling the BB at my LHBS that the VS carboy has a thicker bottom. The sides seem very similar in sturdiness but the VS carboy looks sexier. As far as cleaning, I just use PBW on my VS carboy and that's it. Just let it soak in warm, not hot, but warm water, rinse and repeat. No scratches ever to speak of. I recently switched from glass back to the VS carboy. I have owned some for quite a while, gave them to my homebrew buddies, bought glass, and now I'm switching back again. I'm curious to see what others who have used both have to say.

I have also heard that when you pick up a VS carboy the bottom doesn't sag (as much) like BB. I also like the idea of easier cleaning with the VS. Thanks for your reply...I'm also curious to see what others have to say about both.

 

[Revvy]

One time I tried fermenting in a jute sack. It totally didn't work.

But there actually WAS a fermenting "bag" back in the day. I think in the 30's and it was made of a rubberized material, like raincoat material. It was sort of conical shaped and had a ceramic spigot.

On here years ago, like probably beck in '08 someone had posted a pic that of something they found in an estate sale or a basement or something, and didn't know what it was, and I was able to find info on it. I've tried every now and then to search for that original post but that's the one thing I've never had any search-fu on.....It was pretty wild. You hung it up from a loop on the top and let whatever ferment in it...I can't recall if it was for wine making or beer making, but it was cool.

 

[cl330b]

I have also heard that when you pick up a VS carboy the bottom doesn't sag (as much) like BB. I also like the idea of easier cleaning with the VS. Thanks for your reply...I'm also curious to see what others have to say about both.

I have heard that as well. I have learned from using glass that carboys should always sit in a milk crate (my opinion). No suck back at all when I move the carboy around in a milk crate! One thing though, I needed to buy all new bungs, caps, and handles when I switched back to the VS. I felt bad asking my friends for any of the gear I gave them back!

 

[PantherCity]

I have owned alot of both better bottles and Vintage shop PET carboys. I much prefer the vintage shop ones. The bottoms are much stiffer and the sides don't have ribs that yeast flocks onto. I have had 2 BB that have cracked on the bottom and leaked wort. VS is much stronger and the bottoms don't sag causing suck-back. I think I talked my LHBS into carrying them b/c they really are so much better.

Brewmasters warehouse caries the Vintage shop ones.

Edit: Bung size on BB and VS is the same.

 

[MalFet]

But there actually WAS a fermenting "bag" back in the day. I think in the 30's and it was made of a rubberized material, like raincoat material. It was sort of conical shaped and had a ceramic spigot.

On here years ago, like probably beck in '08 someone had posted a pic that of something they found in an estate sale or a basement or something, and didn't know what it was, and I was able to find info on it. I've tried every now and then to search for that original post but that's the one thing I've never had any search-fu on.....It was pretty wild. You hung it up from a loop on the top and let whatever ferment in it...I can't recall if it was for wine making or beer making, but it was cool.

So you admit it...choice of fermenting vessel does matter. This vessel, for example, is much harder to find with HBT's search engine.

 

[marquette048]

I have owned alot of both better bottles and Vintage shop PET carboys. I much prefer the vintage shop ones. The bottoms are much stiffer and the sides don't have ribs that yeast flocks onto. I have had 2 BB that have cracked on the bottom and leaked wort. VS is much stronger and the bottoms don't sag causing suck-back. I think I talked my LHBS into carrying them b/c they really are so much better.

Brewmasters warehouse caries the Vintage shop ones.

Edit: Bung size on BB and VS is the same.

Thanks....this is what I was hoping to hear! Williams Brewing also sells the Vintage Shop carboys. Do you find the 6 gallon capacity adequate? I am presently using 6-1/2 gallon glass, but the weight is getting old as I get older!

 

[marquette048]

I have heard that as well. I have learned from using glass that carboys should always sit in a milk crate (my opinion). No suck back at all when I move the carboy around in a milk crate! One thing though, I needed to buy all new bungs, caps, and handles when I switched back to the VS. I felt bad asking my friends for any of the gear I gave them back!

Yeah, good idea with the milk crate. I never had to worry that much about "suck back" with glass. Must be a bit easier/safer to move them around in the crate too.

 

[user 4295]

You don't have to worry about "suck back" with Better-Bottles if you either A. pull out the standard 3 piece airlock and replace it with the PET plug that comes with the PET bung when you need to move it, or B. Just use Better-Bottle's Dry Tap Air Lock that acts like a check valve when you pick the bottle up.

 

[marquette048]

You don't have to worry about "suck back" with Better-Bottles if you either A. pull out the standard 3 piece airlock and replace it with the PET plug that comes with the PET bung when you need to move it, or B. Just use Better-Bottle's Dry Tap Air Lock that acts like a check valve when you pick the bottle up.

How are the spigots on the BB's? I like the idea so I don't have to siphon, but I have read reviews that say they are painfully slow. Please give me your opinion if you have used them. Thanks.

 

[user 4295]

How are the spigots on the BB's? I like the idea so I don't have to siphon, but I have read reviews that say they are painfully slow. Please give me your opinion if you have used them. Thanks.

I have the racking adpaters and high flow valves on all my Better-Bottles. I use them all the time and I find them to be extremely convenient. They call them high flow valves, but what you heard is correct, they don't flow very quickly at all, but brewing is for the patient anyway so that little non-issue doesn't bother me. I just allow gravity to do it's thing. It takes about 5-6 minutes to gently rack 5 gallons of beer from primary to secondary or from primary to keg.

Some say that they are difficult to install. It wasn't simple, but they did come with an installation tool (just a short length of thin pvc pipe) which allows you to position the inside portion of the racking adapter through the hole from the inside and then you grab it from the outside and screw the two pieces together.

The special o-rings that seal the two pieces to the BB itself are teflon encapsulated viton and don't need to be regularly disassembled for cleaning/sanitizing as nothing makes it's way past the oring. I've never disassembled mine in the 6 years that I've been using them. That's literally dozens and dozens of batches without a single infected batch. I clean them with hot PBW solution and sanitize with Star-san.

You can also use the racking adapters and other fittings to perform oxygen free racking from primary to secondary if you brew a batch that will benefit from extended conditioning. See This Post.

Here is a link to Better-Bottle's Website. There's a ton of technical information there that will answer all your questions.

 

[marquette048]

Thanks John.... I have all the patience in the world, so 5-6 minutes for racking 5 gallons is no problem to me either! Thanks again for taking the time to help me make an informed decision.

 

[user 4295]

Thanks John.... I have all the patience in the world, so 5-6 minutes for racking 5 gallons is no problem to me either! Thanks again for taking the time to help me make an informed decision.

My pleasure. Glad I could help. If you ever have any more questions please feel free to pm me.

 

[losman26]

Is this system any different than what you have? http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?products_id=11159

I'm probably gonna sell 2 of my non-ported BBottles to a friend for cheap to get this. How did you find the installation? The instructions on the site don't seem very clear

 

[user 4295]

Yes, that is the same racking adapter and high flow valve that I have on all my Better-Bottles. The installation was pretty straight forward. Here is a link to Better-Bottle's Website. On the top of the page click on "Product Information", then on the left hand side click on "Racking Adapters". There is a complete description, with pictures, of exactly how to assemble the adapters to the bottles.

 

[losman26]

So this is what they say on the AHBS site

This is specifically for the ported Better Bottle carboys. Included is the newer high-flow valve, the racking adapter, and a plastic installation rod. The newer high-flow valve has a wider and smoother flow path resulting in faster flow rates and less clogging problems. The valve can be closed without disconnecting the hose and it is easily disassembled for cleaning and sanitizing. This unit is an absolute requirement for the ported Better Bottle carboys.

When did the newer high flow valve come out? Have you ever had problems with it clogging up?

 

[user 4295]

The "high flow" valve replaced the original design right around the time I bought them back in 2006. I had a choice between the two, as they were still selling the older style, and I went with the high flow. Better-Bottle's website doesn't refer to them as the high flow valve any more. They are called the "SimpleFlo Valve" now and they are the same as the ones that I have. I've never had any problems with them clogging, ever! When you're racking your beer the racking adapter gives you the ability to rotate the tube inside the bottle to keep it out of the trub that's settled on the bottom. That's the beauty of the whole system. Toward the end, I tilt the bottle at an angle and rotate the adapter to get every drop.

 

[losman26]

Do you bottle in one of these as well?

 

[Cruzn4aBrewzn]

I have had both for a while now and def like the VS better. They are thicker and just feel better. And clear up easier as there are no ridges for things like yeast to accumulate on. Also my better bottle does not have any spigot or anything on it so they are all just plastic carboys. But now I have been terminating in cornies and love it! I also ferment in sankey kegs and that is super rad as well but I just gave my last one away to a friend to be used as his HLT.

 

[losman26]

I have had both for a while now and def like the VS better. They are thicker and just feel better. And clear up easier as there are no ridges for things like yeast to accumulate on. Also my better bottle does not have any spigot or anything on it so they are all just plastic carboys. But now I have been terminating in cornies and love it! I also ferment in sankey kegs and that is super rad as well but I just gave my last one away to a friend to be used as his HLT.

I wonder if you could use the BB valve system in a vintage shop one?

 

[Cruzn4aBrewzn]

I wonder if you could use the BB valve system in a vintage shop one?

I'm sure you could. You would just have to drill a whole.

When I bought mine I asked about the spigot and whatnot and they guy at my lhbs told me how they stopped carrying them as they were a pain to keep clean and deal with as they were just an extra place for nasties to hide in your fermenter. He also didn't like the spigot as he said that your grub varies so he usually ended up ether clogging it or racking off the top anyway. So most of that made sense to me and I just got the one without the spigot and have never had any problems with them. I love the VS and the better bottles over buckets and the large shards of glass that used to be my glass carboy. They both clean up like magic in an hour or two with some hot tap water and oxyclean. And are easy to rack off of and harvest yeast etc.

 

[losman26]

I'm sure you could. You would just have to drill a whole.

When I bought mine I asked about the spigot and whatnot and they guy at my lhbs told me how they stopped carrying them as they were a pain to keep clean and deal with as they were just an extra place for nasties to hide in your fermenter. He also didn't like the spigot as he said that your grub varies so he usually ended up ether clogging it or racking off the top anyway. So most of that made sense to me and I just got the one without the spigot and have never had any problems with them. I love the VS and the better bottles over buckets and the large shards of glass that used to be my glass carboy. They both clean up like magic in an hour or two with some hot tap water and oxyclean. And are easy to rack off of and harvest yeast etc.

What about the ported one? I'm considering getting one of these because it doesn't have the side wall ribs. I've noticed that when I do lagers, yeast gets trapped in there with the better bottles. Also, am doing a high gravity brew right now, and there seems to be a lot of yeast trapped, granted this is only day 4.

 

[brettwasbtd]

I have a better bottles and enjoy them. These VS look cool as well. I think a bigger concern for me is if they could make a plastic carboy in the 6.5 gallon capacity.... I know they don't cause of the way they are packaged or something like that, but I would much rather be putting 5.5 gallons of wort to ferment than the 5-5.2 i use so I don't lose beer to blow off

 

[losman26]

I have a better bottles and enjoy them. These VS look cool as well. I think a bigger concern for me is if they could make a plastic carboy in the 6.5 gallon capacity.... I know they don't cause of the way they are packaged or something like that, but I would much rather be putting 5.5 gallons of wort to ferment than the 5-5.2 i use so I don't lose beer to blow off

I totally agree. 6.5 gallons would be great, as you wouldn't need to worry about a blow-off tube every damn time you brew.

 

[marquette048]

What about the ported one? I'm considering getting one of these because it doesn't have the side wall ribs. I've noticed that when I do lagers, yeast gets trapped in there with the better bottles. Also, am doing a high gravity brew right now, and there seems to be a lot of yeast trapped, granted this is only day 4.

Williams Brewing carries the Vintage Shop carboy in 3, 5, and 6 gallon sizes both with and without a spigot. They also carry a 1-inch high flow valve, but I'm not sure if this is the same spigot that comes with the VS carboy.

 

[ipso]

(I was going to create a new thread, but this seems like a ..better place to consolidate BB information.)

I’m thinking of purchasing a square 3gal Better Bottle for 3-4 month cold storage of a beer I brewed yesterday. (I assume the 3gal and 5gal bottles have the same opening size.) I’m told by my LHBS guy (half heartedly) to “just” use a #10 stopper. OK… I’m concerned though. If I take room temp beer, stuff a #10 cap, and put that in the fridge, I suspect the volume reduction might suck that stopper right down into the neck such that I won’t be able to get it off easily. It may even crinkle the plastic slightly depending on the bottle thickness. Probably not, but.. maybe that’s what I want; the idea being I don’t want gnarly fridge air sucking into the vessel as it’s cooling. I suspect the refrigerator, no matter how tidy, is one of the home’s hot spots for an untold variety of airborne bacteria. I have zero problem with that for a keg I’m drinking this week, but probably not a good idea for long term storage.

I’m not sure I understand the Better Bottle Cap mechanism. Will it hold if I store the bottle on it's side? Seems like unneeded complexity (..holes within holes, wheels within wheels.) I can’t find a simple “cap”, so it looks like I would need a BB08, which includes a BB09 inner plug.

Or would a BB08 and a “dry trap” BB17 mechanism be best for my long term cold storage? (albeit, not on it's side.)

Or is there another option or product I’m missing? Maybe I can just reuse an Arrowhead/Sparkletts cap. Does that work?; same exact neck size?

Another Corny keg would be the obvious choice, but a Better Bottle is ~$22 (+19+15?) and another 3gal Corny is like $120. Also, if it’s kegged, I’m going to drink it (duh). Perhaps in this alternate vessel it will have a chance of actually aging.

I also assume that clear plastic is fine, although not optimal, since this fridge gets no direct sunlight when I open it. I suspect the smart money would still cover it.

Any pertinent information/insight is appreciated, as I stumble down the road of knowledge.

(I trust this is a valid addition, and not a hijack. Cheers!)

 

[captgus]

Yes, that is the same racking adapter and high flow valve that I have on all my Better-Bottles. The installation was pretty straight forward. Here is a link to Better-Bottle's Website. On the top of the page click on "Product Information", then on the left hand side click on "Racking Adapters". There is a complete description, with pictures, of exactly how to assemble the adapters to the bottles.

I'm currently battling connecting the valve and the but, is the clip necessary? It doesn't seem like there is enough room to get the clip in once the two have been connected. Am I missing something?

 

[luthierzan]

I have been using BB's for 4 years now. I posted the original youtube video on the best way to clean them that seems to be the excepted standard now (btw my bottles still look the same to this day).
Anyway all of the PET bottles, when you pick them up, will suck. It is the nature of the beast. Hopefully there is enough CO2 (it doesn't take much) to protect the beer (CO2 is heavier than air and should act as a barrier).
Me I like the BBs because of the lip of the bottle which accepts the orange caps which are vaey versitile. You do not need to flame as they fit over the whole lip as opossed to bungs. Wth a hose clamp around the cap I can use CO2 pressure to transfer (can't do this safely with glass). The other PET bottles i have seen do not have this neck profile.

The biggest problem with all PET bottles is the size. I still do not know why other manufacturers did not introduce a 6.5 G bottle when they came into the market. They could clean up the market with this size. Just putting the same thing in the market doesn't make sense.
David Oh

 

[cl330b]

I have been using BB's for 4 years now. I posted the original youtube video on the best way to clean them that seems to be the excepted standard now (btw my bottles still look the same to this day).
Anyway all of the PET bottles, when you pick them up, will suck. It is the nature of the beast. Hopefully there is enough CO2 (it doesn't take much) to protect the beer (CO2 is heavier than air and should act as a barrier).
Me I like the BBs because of the lip of the bottle which accepts the orange caps which are vaey versitile. You do not need to flame as they fit over the whole lip as opossed to bungs. Wth a hose clamp around the cap I can use CO2 pressure to transfer (can't do this safely with glass). The other PET bottles i have seen do not have this neck profile.

The biggest problem with all PET bottles is the size. I still do not know why other manufacturers did not introduce a 6.5 G bottle when they came into the market. They could clean up the market with this size. Just putting the same thing in the market doesn't make sense.
David Oh

Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMNsqTBW55s&feature=plcp

I do co2 transfers in my vintage shop PET carboys with the orange cap all the time. In fact, every time. Ill post a video next time i transfer in about 2 weeks.

 

[luthierzan]

I do co2 transfers in my vintage shop PET carboys with the orange cap all the time. In fact, every time. Ill post a video next time i transfer in about 2 weeks.

No matter, it is the same old. I still have BBs in perfect condition, I have no reason to buy new bottles for no advantage.
My posting is aimed at PET manufacturers to introduce a 6.5 G PET bottle for homebrewers. This will peak my attention!

DavidOh

 

[DeafSmith]

My posting is aimed at PET manufacturers to introduce a 6.5 G PET bottle for homebrewers. This will peak my attention

Here's why BB doesn't make larger ones:

http://www.better-bottle.com/faq.html

Click on the "Why doesn't BB..." tab.

 

[cl330b]

No matter, it is the same old. I still have BBs in perfect condition, I have no reason to buy new bottles for no advantage.
My posting is aimed at PET manufacturers to introduce a 6.5 G PET bottle for homebrewers. This will peak my attention!

DavidOh

I hear that! Wish they could be a little bigger too.