Best cleaning method after sour beer

[ArrogantDusty]

Warning, if you don't want to read my story, skip to the question at the bottom. Thanks for your help!

A while back, I brewed my "Windrunner Saison," which is a favorite of mine and everyone else who partakes of my homebrew.

Liking it as I do, I decided to brew 20 gallons instead of 5. But I messed with the yeasts on the other three batches (5 gallons each). One was bottled with Brett, one was 100% brett and bottle dregs from random sours, and the last was wyeast 3278(Lambic Blend). They all turned out great in their own ways.

Fast forward a few months and I brewed a Standard Brown, a holiday red and milk stout.

I was pleased with each of the beers for the first few months. Then about three months after bottling, I poured a brown and found a sourness to it. I figured it was something to do with the bottle, so I opened another. That too was soured and it did not go with the style. Basically, what I had left of that brew was ruined, though I am keeping them around to age for a while to see what happens.

A month or so after that, I had a twilight zone moment. I pour the red, which I plan to put into my regular rotation because I enjoyed it so much. It was sour. Horrified, I poured another and it too had soured. I then pour a milk stout and it too had a twinge of sourness that was starting to come through. The red actually tasted good this way, but not as good as the original.

Long story I know and I'm sorry. I have been brewing for almost 3 years now. I brew all grain and I am good about keeping things clean and sanitizing correctly. This is the very first time something has gotten into my beers that I didn't want.

That said, I am afraid to brew anything for these fermented right now. I used my normal cleaning and sanitizing practices on them and this still happened. I think somehow, the souring bugs are living on in the containers.

How does everyone else clean after using souring methods? A buddy of mine swears by a bleach blend but that scares me for some reason because he doesn't really use any kind of exact science. Please help. I want to brew again ASAP!

 

[ColoHox]

Plastic fermenters then? You may not ever be able to completely rid them of sour bugs, even with a bleach bomb.

Label them as sour fermenters and continue making (what sounds like tasty) sour beers in them. Purchase some new fermenters for non-sour beers. Or use glass carboys.

Really, this is the safest approach.

 

[augiedoggy]

I have been told by the local lambic pro that leaving them in the direct sunlight works ... the UV radiation apparently does a good job of killing the bacteria...

 

[DrunkleJon]

I would suggest you treat anything that touches the beer cold side. This means fermenter, bottling bucket (and the spigot for it), racking cane and tubing, thief (or however else you are sampling beer to take gravity readings), etc. Disassemble anything that you can and clean out any leftovers. Bleach with a little vinegar to lower the pH and increase its effectiveness, followed by a very thorough rinse and then leave out in the sun to dry/deodorize. Sanatize well afterwards.

Or... replace any plastics that touch your beer. I reccomend replacing the tubing anyways. Its cheap and better safe than sorry.

Other things to note, how well are you cleaning out your bottles? do you use a bottle tree to dry them? Have you cleaned/sanitized that (they do touch the inside of the bottles after all)?

 

[eric19312]

That is a sad story. I also have mix of sour and clean beers in various stages of production most of the time. So far no infections like what you are describing but that is ongoing concern.

My plastic equipment that touches sour beer is dedicated to sours at this time. This includes fermenters, autosiphon, bottling bucket. It should also include stoppers and airlocks but I have been careless about that. Lucky so far I guess but maybe I will fix that before I have my own sad story to post.

 

[masonsjax]

I have a separate set of plastics for wild/sour beers and a bunch of PET fermentors labeled for sours only. I have made clean beers after bacteria has been in some fermentors without problems. I clean with oxiclean and treat with starsan.

 

[heckels]

I do the same as those above. The only thing that's shared between sours and non-sours are stainless components. Even keg rings and beer lines get swapped out (only relevant if you bottle directly out of kegs - I found this out the hard way).

It may be overkill but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

 

[ArcLight]

1. Brett is way way easier to kill than bacteria.

2. use Iodophor, not star san for Brett.

3. Bacteria are very hard to get rid of, and if you are talking Auto siphons and hoses and buckets (don't forget thos erubber gaskets too, and bottling wand tips), that's a lot of places for bacteria to hide, then reinfect your other equipment.

4. Bacteria form biofilms that are protective and even hospitals have problems sterilizing equipment, and they have access to a lot more powerful chemicals than we do.

5. You can try:
a) PBW - to dissolve any particles. Clean before and after with soap and water and a dedicated sponge.
b) 1 gallon of water + 1 ounce bleach + 1 ounce of vinegar (added to the water, not the bleach directly). Let it sit 5 minutes then dump out and air dry. [this is the sanitize concentration, and may not kill all bacteria]
Follow up with
c) Iodophor - 2 minute contact time, then air dry.

(You can use Hydrogen Peroxide or One Step in addition - it kills with Oxygen).

This may or may not work. If it doesn't work (i.e. a bucket remains infected) the infection will spread to your tubing / auto siphon / bottling bucket, and maybe other fermentors.