Beers turning red

[gyllstromk]

Moved to a new area last year and started brewing with new equipment. My process is a bit crappier than usual and have to make do with sub-par equipment (e.g., I use a coffee grinder to rip the grains).

I bought a 50lb grain bag and have been using it all year.

My first batch was great. Every batch (about 5-6) since then have been worse. One weird thing I've noticed is that the (bad) beers are turning out copper/red when they should be blond. Some of these are the same recipes I've done in the past, which did not turn out red. I'm really confused as to what's going on, and whether there's a connection between the color and the flavor.

Any thoughts?

 

[Revvy]

THere's not enough info..But are they coming into contact with something that could be coloring them/ What are you fermenting them in?

What is your sanitization regimine like?

 

[gyllstromk]

Fermenting in real carboys, also sanitizing with star san. No contact with any other chemicals that I am aware of ...

 

[snowveil]

Potentially oxidation? What sort of flavors are these "bad" beers throwing off? What are your racking and bottling processes like?

 

[foltster]

Maybe the water in your new location is terrible.

 

[Golddiggie]

What kind of coffee grinder are you using?? Is it dedicated to grain? If it's an old one, could be iron filings getting in with the grain (just a thought) or maybe your water is high in iron/elements... Try bottled/filtered water with the next batch.

Personally, I'd go with either an ugly mill, or a pretty one... I'm actually planning on ordering the later next week... Especially since I should have my 7 sacks-o-grain soon after that... :rockin:

What grains are you using besides base malt? What base malt ARE you using? Post up a recipe so we can see what you're brewing... What's the 'bad' flavor you're getting?? Are you fermenting within the same range of temperatures now? What other new hardware are you using? Pots, MLT, etc.? How does it differ from what you used before??

 

[devilishprune]

Recipe? How long does it take you to grind enough grains for a batch with a coffee grinder? That's gotta take forever.

 

[justins2582]

Just theorizing, but what about this:

The grinder is grinding the hulls instead of crushing, which is leading to you extracting a lot of tannins from grain hulls. I'm not the most experienced tho.

 

[Golddiggie]

Just theorizing, but what about this:

The grinder is grinding the hulls instead of crushing, which is leading to you extracting a lot of tannins from grain hulls. I'm not the most experienced tho.

Could be... I've only had grain crushed in the correct hardware... If he's using a burr coffee grinder, it's probably molesting the grain in the process. If he's using one of the very old coffee grinders (commercial grade from days of old) then it could just be adjusted to a bad crush size.

For giggles, and to rule it out, brew a batch where you run the grain through an actual grain mill... Repeat one of the recipes that's gone wrong since you set up again...

 

[gyllstromk]

Thanks for the responses. The grinder is definitely shredding the husks so the tannin theory could be valid. Unfortunately I am only overseas for another year or so and I don't want to invest in equipment until I get to a permanent place, esp since equipment is mucho expensive here.

My process is not perfect. Can't use gravity to draw wort off the grain so I start the process with a suck (I don't do this when I need to be sanitary: the autosiphon works for that). This is more error prone and there is definitely more splashing than my process was when I had good equipment, but nothing that seems illegal.

My recipe is a pretty straightforward grain bill (usually just two-row). Off flavors are hard to describe, not too indicative of oxidation though.

 

[dragonlor20]

Thanks for the responses. The grinder is definitely shredding the husks so the tannin theory could be valid. Unfortunately I am only overseas for another year or so and I don't want to invest in equipment until I get to a permanent place, esp since equipment is mucho expensive here.

My process is not perfect. Can't use gravity to draw wort off the grain so I start the process with a suck (I don't do this when I need to be sanitary: the autosiphon works for that). This is more error prone and there is definitely more splashing than my process was when I had good equipment, but nothing that seems illegal.

My recipe is a pretty straightforward grain bill (usually just two-row). Off flavors are hard to describe, not too indicative of oxidation though.

What kinds of beers have you brewed... More specifically, have you brewed a light or pale beer that we could help you dissect? Could you go back to extract for the remainder of your time overseas?

 

[Legin]

HSA!!! (kidding.) You would have to be transferring via splashing the hot wort from one vessel to another. Even then people would deny it even exists. Well it does. And it does turn your beer a red tinge and add a sherry-like (almost sour) off-flavor from oxidation after a few months. Though we should look at more likely causes.

But I will ask, does the beer have a red tinge as wort or is it after a months?

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Higher pH in the boil will produce darker wort. Could it be the water?

 

[Legin]

Higher pH in the boil will produce darker wort. Could it be the water?

Exactly. Why I'm wondering if the color change is after mash or a month later. Did this a couple months back.

 

[gyllstromk]

HSA!!! (kidding.) You would have to be transferring via splashing the hot wort from one vessel to another. Even then people would deny it even exists. Well it does. And it does turn your beer a red tinge and add a sherry-like (almost sour) off-flavor from oxidation after a few months. Though we should look at more likely causes.

But I will ask, does the beer have a red tinge as wort or is it after a months?

I've considered the oxidation problem before. However, the beers don't seem to be getting redder, and the weird flavors are immediate -- and actually get better with time, though not quite good.

 

[gyllstromk]

Higher pH in the boil will produce darker wort. Could it be the water?

This is a good theory. My only counterargument would be that some of my beers have turned out blond. In fact, one batch, after the boil, I split into two fermenters and used different yeasts on them. One turned out blond, one reddish brown. It can't be the yeast doing that can it?

 

[waldoar15]

Are you using well water at your new location?

 

[gyllstromk]

Are you using well water at your new location?

No, it's city water. I don't treat it, but the fact that identical recipes have produced different colors leads me to question whether the water can be the ultimate cause.

 

[StMarcos]

Maybe you have been using dark munich instead of light?

We can't help if you don't describe the flavor.... so what your beers are darker than normal but still get best of show, and you can't figure out what's going on? What else have you changed? More kettle flavors? Water? Ambient temps for non-controlled ferments?

I wouldn't think it's pre-boil oxidaton from splashing or contam from sucking. Fill us in a bit more.....

 

[cactusgarrett]

I would start by holding your water constant - purchase the same bottled water for a few batches in a row. It'll be a little pricier than you're used to (~+$10), but at least you'd be able to rule out a different/changing water profile.

 

[Legin]

I would start by holding your water constant - purchase the same bottled water for a few batches in a row. It'll be a little pricier than you're used to (~+$10), but at least you'd be able to rule out a different/changing water profile.

+1

Dilute half batch water with RO or distilled.

Rule out HSA.
I will say that it's pretty obvious to tell if it is a high PH that is changing your color and possibly giving the off-flavor. If you plug your grains into an SRM calculator and it says your beer should be a golden color (even considering fermentation lightens color), yet your wort is a red color that seems unlikely or impossible for the grains added, then this is most likely the cause. And if the PH is reaching high enough levels it could be extracting tannins which would be your off-flavor.

The red color in my beer went away completely after fermentation and aging (completely opposite for HSA). This could have been related to the yeast strain. Don't know. Though if you extracted tannins, they would remain in all the batches regardless of color change after fermentation.

And it's completely possible (and quite likely), as mentioned previously, that the shredding of your grains is causing the off-flavor, just not the color change... And then it could always be something else that's your issue.

 

[cactusgarrett]

+1

Dilute half batch water with RO or distilled.

I would even go so far as to have 100% of the water be bottled (spring) or built up from RO/DI. Even 50% diluted still leaves room for a changing water profile to affect the beer.