Beer line to tap...4ft or 10ft?

[GreenMan]

So i have read lots of people have like 7-10 ft of 3/16th ID tubing for there beer line to the faucets. I also have read the FAQs that use height and friction and pressure. When I use those equations I get like 3.7 ft from keg to faucet. I have my kegs at 12 psi with a 2.5 ft height from the middle of the keg to the faucets. Using (12psi - 2.5ft * 0.5psi/ft) / 2.7psi/ft = 3.98 ft. So that would tell me I want the beer to travel a little under 3.98ft from keg to the point it leaves the faucet to be perfect. This doesn't even come close to the 7-10 feet that other say they use. Which do I use? I'm leaning toward the 4ft sense that is from the sticky and is based off calculations and makes sense to me.

 

[mmb]

Unfortunately, the resistance of the beer line differs from manufacturer to manufacturer. Also, the temperature that you dispense at effects the draw length of the lines.

I have 6 foot lines that work fine for my dispensing, but you just may want to try 10 foot lines. You won't knock CO2 out but you'll provide enough resistance that CO2 won't foam out at the faucet.

 

[McKBrew]

I'd go with the 10' lines. After my experience and the experiences I've heard from others, the calculators tend to be inaccurate and with a short line, you will have foaming issues.

 

[wildwest450]

That might be to short. My lines are 6 ft and I get perfect pours at 12psi. You can always shorten, but you can't add to them.

 

[GreenMan]

Also, the temperature that you dispense at effects the draw length of the lines.

How does it effect draw length? I thought temperature will just effect how much CO2 will get dissolved into the beer at a given pressure. If its already balanced and the tube is at the same temperature how does this effect draw length.

Thanks for the help. Just trying to understand this correctly.

 

[GreenMan]

You can always shorten, but you can't add to them.

How do you know if they are too long?

 

[red999]

Green Man, I used the calculations too and it said about 4 feet at 12 PSI. I did that and all i got was foam. I'm gonna go with 10. Worse case you can cut the 10 down if its too much.

 

[adamjab19]

Could you serve at let's say 8psi and use a shorter line or does it always have to be served at 12psi? I am piecing a keg system together and got a picnic tap with a few feet of beer line already attached to it.

 

[bendavanza]

Here is the easy way:
Start with 10' at the temp and PSI you want, which is typically 38˚ at 12psi, you may like it warmer, but I don't recommend colder than 36˚.
At 10', coil your excess line (I use zip ties or velcro straps) to keep it tidy and from running up and down excessively.
See how it pours. If the draw is too slow, cut a foot off. repeat. I'd personally have a slow draw over too fast, it's not like you're making money selling beer (or are you?)
I use 7-8' of line and target 38˚. One of my taps seems to run fast and I may splice in a 2' section, or just buy more hose. Other taps pour fine. It depends on the beer, so find a happy balance, and work on your pouring style for each beer. The beer line is relatively cheap. Good air circulation helps a lot, too.
happy pouring
-Ben

 

[wildwest450]

Here is the easy way:
Start with 10' at the temp and PSI you want, which is typically 38˚ at 12psi, you may like it warmer, but I don't recommend colder than 36˚.
At 10', coil your excess line (I use zip ties or velcro straps) to keep it tidy and from running up and down excessively.
See how it pours. If the draw is too slow, cut a foot off. repeat. I'd personally have a slow draw over too fast, it's not like you're making money selling beer (or are you?)
I use 7-8' of line and target 38˚. One of my taps seems to run fast and I may splice in a 2' section, or just buy more hose. Other taps pour fine. It depends on the beer, so find a happy balance, and work on your pouring style for each beer. The beer line is relatively cheap. Good air circulation helps a lot, too.
happy pouring
-Ben

+1, good advice, I prefer my beer at 42F to start with.

 

[GreenMan]

Could you serve at let's say 8psi and use a shorter line or does it always have to be served at 12psi? I am piecing a keg system together and got a picnic tap with a few feet of beer line already attached to it.

The 12 psi is based off the level of carbonation that you want in the beer so if you just put it at 8psi it would have lower carbonation. Look at this for more.

 

[GreenMan]

So the only drawback of having too much line is that the pour will be slower?

 

[bendavanza]

So the only drawback of having too much line is that the pour will be slower?

Correct.
Which could contribute to less head on the pour, which you can compensate for by lowering the glass from the faucet near the end of your pour, or by slightly closing the faucet near the end of the pour.
There are 3 main variables, and countless other variables-
Temperature - Pressure - Resistance
Other factors include cold beer hitting a warm faucet, resistance of line (varies by brand), diameter/length of line, uphill travel, etc. Towers really need to be cooled by forced air, some get by with copper tubing to cool the lines. This applies to when the tower is warm, if it's being used frequently the beer flow will keep it cold.There are a ton of threads on tower cooling. I use a small blower and 1" hose.

But my previous statement is an excellent starting point for a basic kegerator with taps on or in the box.

 

[brewthunda]

I like to keep my beers at 10 psi and 39 degrees. With 5 feet I had a foam problem, mostly on the first pour, but even subsequent pours would be 1/4 foam. Worse was that the beer came out way too fast - a 22 oz pilsner glass would fill in 4 seconds. I stepped up to 10 feet just as an experiment and I think it's perfect. That 22 oz glass now takes about 8 seconds to fill, which is perfect. The foam problem is gone, too. In fact, I can now control how much head I want, from almost nothing to a healthy head, by where in the glass I aim the stream.

I also put 20 feet of line on my soda water faucet and run that at 40 psi and it's pretty good. It comes out faster than the beer, but with no foam issues that's fine. If I ever ran a keg of rootbeer, I'd probably want to step up to 30 feet.

 

[adamjab19]

The 12 psi is based off the level of carbonation that you want in the beer so if you just put it at 8psi it would have lower carbonation. Look at this for more.

I plan on priming with sugar and I just found a chart to see how much sugar I put in for proper carbing. So the only time I will have the beer with gas is to serve it. But while serving couldn't I just the psi at whatever levels gets me the right amount of head?

 

[McKBrew]

I plan on priming with sugar and I just found a chart to see how much sugar I put in for proper carbing. So the only time I will have the beer with gas is to serve it. But while serving couldn't I just the psi at whatever levels gets me the right amount of head?

In your case it would be easy to do this. Your beer is already carbonated and it will only take a couple PSI to push it out. When I had short lines I got a great pour at <5psi.

 

[adamjab19]

ahh great! Another problem solved! I was sitting here thinking how the hell do people serve beer with the faucet directly attached to the keg. Plus I just spent money on a pre- assembled picnic tap line thingy that is only about 3-4 feet long.

 

[GreenMan]

Well, I already have one piece of tubing cut to about 4 feet so I'm going to try with that and if I get really foamy beer then I will add some quick disconnects to extend the line. Have to wait for the keg to fully carb correctly and then I will test it. Thanks for all the help though.


adamjab19 - if you keep the pressure at lower then what it was carbed too then the beer will slowly go flat down to that level of carbonation. After you pour a couple beers and the pressure in the tank is down to 5 psi, the beer will be like sitting in a glass slowly bubbling out all the co2 just slower since it has some pressure on it. This will not bubble out all the co2 either just enough till it equalizes out to the 5psi pressure. Works great for short time periods just not if you want the beer to stay carbed for a long time.

 

[conpewter]

Well, I already have one piece of tubing cut to about 4 feet so I'm going to try with that and if I get really foamy beer then I will add some quick disconnects to extend the line. Have to wait for the keg to fully carb correctly and then I will test it. Thanks for all the help though.


adamjab19 - if you keep the pressure at lower then what it was carbed too then the beer will slowly go flat down to that level of carbonation. After you pour a couple beers and the pressure in the tank is down to 5 psi, the beer will be like sitting in a glass slowly bubbling out all the co2 just slower since it has some pressure on it. This will not bubble out all the co2 either just enough till it equalizes out to the 5psi pressure. Works great for short time periods just not if you want the beer to stay carbed for a long time.

Exactly. The way the short line/tap on keg systems usually work is you carbonate it (natural or force) and then drop the pressure to serve. Once you are done serving you are either out of beer, or you need to bump the pressure back up to ~12PSI (Depends on style/temp) to keep the beer carbonated.

If you really want to use the short lines, or a tap right on the keg, then check out this thread https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/adding-beerline-resistance-inside-keg-92926/

 

[adamjab19]

Thanks for the info. I plan on using my keggin system for one time uses.