Beer in 2 weeks

[BrewmeisterSmith]

So, I just got back from touring a new brewery in town. Their beers were flavorful, no off flavors, tasted true to style, etc. When I asked questions about their process, here is what i gathered. Ferment 1-2 weeks. Cold crash 2 days around 50-55 degrees. Drop to 40 degrees for 24 hours, then transfer to serving vessels in the cooler. The cooler is set at 33 degrees. They force carbonate in the serving vessels and run straight to the tap. So, beer in 2 weeks? How is this possible? I keep in the primary for 3 weeks, then keg, then stick in the kegerator with the gas on at 12 psi for 2 weeks before I start drinking it. I find my beer tastes best 3 weeks+ in the keg. No yeast flavors etc.

So, how does this work for a commercial facility, but not for me. I assume that sticking my beer straight into the chest freezer essentially accomplishes the same thing as a cold crash. So, why does my beer not taste fantastic 3 days later?

 

[Slow_Day]

This is what Cape Brewing has to say about it:

My very strong suspicion is simply pitching rates. We, and I am fairly certain that most other breweries, pitch their yeast at dramatically higher pitch rates than homebrewers. We typically pitch well above double the pitch rates that homebrewers do so there is a lot more yeast to do an easier job... and things clean up much quicker. We also force carb so there is no bottle conditioning lag time like you're talking about. If we bottle conditioned, we would have the same time frame on the back end as you do.

 

[brewinginnc]

Plus filtering

 

[TrickyDick]

Stone brews an IIPA with a drink by date ( that's also the name of the beer "drink by IPA" I think.. ) that I'm told is six weeks past brew day.
I was told they filter the beer, and it's fermented within 6 days and kegged the next.
They were a bit sketchy on the details, but the definitely filter I was told.
Some styles obviously better suited to faster turnaround.

TD

 

[BrewmeisterSmith]

I smell an experiment coming on. Double pitch. Cold crash, filter, then consume. Sample as quickly as possible.

But, does double pitch rates necessarily mean faster yeast cleanup? Would it ferment too fast and create off flavors? I know the brewery I mentioned has a brown ale that they say sounds like a thunder storm in the fermtentor. I'm guessing that is a very energetic ferment. thus, huge pitch rate. is this a way to cheat the normal homebrewers timeline?

 

[Yooper]

So, I just got back from touring a new brewery in town. Their beers were flavorful, no off flavors, tasted true to style, etc. When I asked questions about their process, here is what i gathered. Ferment 1-2 weeks. Cold crash 2 days around 50-55 degrees. Drop to 40 degrees for 24 hours, then transfer to serving vessels in the cooler. The cooler is set at 33 degrees. They force carbonate in the serving vessels and run straight to the tap. So, beer in 2 weeks? How is this possible? I keep in the primary for 3 weeks, then keg, then stick in the kegerator with the gas on at 12 psi for 2 weeks before I start drinking it. I find my beer tastes best 3 weeks+ in the keg. No yeast flavors etc.

So, how does this work for a commercial facility, but not for me. I assume that sticking my beer straight into the chest freezer essentially accomplishes the same thing as a cold crash. So, why does my beer not taste fantastic 3 days later?

Well, your process of keeping the beer in primary for 3 weeks, cold conditioning for 2 weeks, and then drinking at 3+ weeks means your beers are about 6 weeks old when you enjoy drinking them?

My beers are often gone at 6 weeks old.

Ferment until done, and add three days or so. (Three weeks in the fermenter may not hurt, but it's not like they are "doner" at three weeks than 9 days). After that, rack to keg if clear or dryhop if dryhopping. For dryhopped beers, dryhop five days, then keg.

Keg, and set in kegerator at 30 psi for 36 hours, then purge and reset to 12 psi. Drink.

Right now, at this exact moment, I'm drinking this beer: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f67/fat-squirrel-clone-108705/. I made it on 10/31, so it's 15 days old. It's really good but a wee bit roastier than I'd like to see it. That will mellow in a few days, I"m sure.

A well made beer (proper pitching rate, proper fermentation temperature, fresh ingredients) doesn't create off-flavors, so there is no reason for needing time for them to age out.

A few beers will benefit from aging a bit- robust roasty beers, and big Belgians for example, but most lower OG beers simply don't need time to age if made properly.

 

[bluelakebrewing]

The brewery I worked at pitched huge amounts of yeast - it was seriously the most violent blowoff I've ever seen - like seriously 100 bubbles a second it was insane. This would last about 2-3 days then they cap it and finish fermentation under pressure for a few more days. This helps the yeast work faster and you release pressure when it gets to a preset psi. They constantly dump yeast and trub from the unitank then cold crash for 24 hours. Then transfer to BBT to carb, which in a large commercial brewery can be done in less then a day. Then transfer to kegs. Not saying the beer is fully conditioned, but this is just an example of how they can pump out a medium gravity pale ale in around a week.

 

[Yooper]

I smell an experiment coming on. Double pitch. Cold crash, filter, then consume. Sample as quickly as possible.

But, does double pitch rates necessarily mean faster yeast cleanup? Would it ferment too fast and create off flavors? I know the brewery I mentioned has a brown ale that they say sounds like a thunder storm in the fermtentor. I'm guessing that is a very energetic ferment. thus, huge pitch rate. is this a way to cheat the normal homebrewers timeline?

"Double" pitching rates isn't optimum, any more than underpitching. Overpitching leads to other issues.

Proper pitching is crucial for the best beer, whether you want to drink it in 10 days or in three months. Great info here: http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php

 

[Slow_Day]

Some brews,(i.e. high OG), benefit from aging. Some, (i.e. wheat beers), benefit from the stress of lower pitching rates. Standard OG, clean finishing ales are probably best suited to over pitching to achieve quick turnaround.

 

[Yooper]

I smell an experiment coming on. Double pitch. Cold crash, filter, then consume. Sample as quickly as possible.

But, does double pitch rates necessarily mean faster yeast cleanup? Would it ferment too fast and create off flavors? I know the brewery I mentioned has a brown ale that they say sounds like a thunder storm in the fermtentor. I'm guessing that is a very energetic ferment. thus, huge pitch rate. is this a way to cheat the normal homebrewers timeline?

Oh, yes, and one thing I wanted to mention was about this "yeast cleanup".

Sure, it happens when fermentation slows and ends and the yeast are still scavenging for food. But this is a process that takes 24 hours or so after FG is reached, so it's not like this "clean up" is taking weeks. After easily fermented sugars are gone, the yeast will continue to digest less fermentable sugars, and even their own waste products (like diacetyl). That doesn't mean they'll clean up everything that we may wish, like esters or fusels- it means that when active fermentation ends, they will digest less preferable food sources. Again, that's for maybe 24 hours or so after FG is reached. By letting it sit at FG for 3 days or so, if the beer is clearing that means the yeast is done and it won't do any more "clean up" at that point.

That's why it's so important to have a healthy fermentation in the first place. Avoid creating esters and fusels, pitch the proper amount of yeast at the proper temperature and ferment at the optimum fermentation temperature, and Bob's your uncle. (He really IS my uncle, by the way. )

 

[Slow_Day]

Oops! Was typing while Yooper was talking.

Listen to Yooper.

 

[BrewmeisterSmith]

Well, your process of keeping the beer in primary for 3 weeks, cold conditioning for 2 weeks, and then drinking at 3+ weeks means your beers are about 6 weeks old when you enjoy drinking them?

My beers are often gone at 6 weeks old.

Ferment until done, and add three days or so. (Three weeks in the fermenter may not hurt, but it's not like they are "doner" at three weeks than 9 days). After that, rack to keg if clear or dryhop if dryhopping. For dryhopped beers, dryhop five days, then keg.

Keg, and set in kegerator at 30 psi for 36 hours, then purge and reset to 12 psi. Drink.

Right now, at this exact moment, I'm drinking this beer: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f67/fat-squirrel-clone-108705/. I made it on 10/31, so it's 15 days old. It's really good but a wee bit roastier than I'd like to see it. That will mellow in a few days, I"m sure.

A well made beer (proper pitching rate, proper fermentation temperature, fresh ingredients) doesn't create off-flavors, so there is no reason for needing time for them to age out.

A few beers will benefit from aging a bit- robust roasty beers, and big Belgians for example, but most lower OG beers simply don't need time to age if made properly.

Yooper, do you think that my method of kegging and leaving at 12 psi for 2-3 weeks could have something to do with the green beer taste when sampling sooner? Carbonation changes the ph levels. So, if I get to the desired carbonation level within 36 hours, am I accomplishing the same thing that I am experiencing at week 3 sooner?....beer tastes ready...no more yeasty taste, clean beer, etc?

 

[Slow_Day]

... but most lower OG beers simply don't need time to age if made properly.

Ah. Therein lies the rub. Time tends to mellow the slings an arrows of our imperfections.

 

[Gmulerulz]

Ok I've bought into the whole 3 week primary and have even been pushing 4 weeks lately. Now I read here I may not need to do that. I have to admit this forum and people like Yooper and Revvy have been my teachers for the last year as I have became addicted to brewing my own beer. Now I feel like a little kid who has walked into the living room at midnight on Christmas Eve to find my parents are really Santa Claus..... Everything I came to believe to be true is not so real after all. So do I start testing my gravity at 10 days and bottle when it hits FG for 2 times or do I still let it sit for 3-4 weeks? Next thing I will discover is the Easter Bunny isn't real either. For all of us who don't belong to brew clubs or have a person to teach us (except the awesome kind souls on this website that take the time to help us), what is the best thing/way for us to proceed in the future? Inquiring minds want to know.

Oh by the way I bottle condition if that makes a difference

 

[TrickyDick]

I found that when I have time off and can take time to take daily gravity readings, that primary fermentation can be finished in 3-5 days in most instances. Often, I would let it go 1-2 weeks, only having time on weekends and getting around to it when I could due to lack of free time, and only recently do I realize that it's pretty darn fast for most ales.

I also found that I no longer trust mail order liquid yeast, and I do trust dry yeast mail order. I am judicious in my use of liquid yeast. When I do buy it, I get it fresh as possible, and pay for overnight shipping in an insulated box with ice packs delivered to my office so it's not on a hot truck all day. This make a difference. Also costs more, which is why I'm judicious in using liquid yeast when I can get away with a dry yeast instead. Some brew demand a liquid yeast however. Winter brewing Ill do two day shipping, but will insist on an insulated box - living in FL you just never know.

The mysterious stuck fermentation I think in my past I can probably blame yeast health and viability.

That said, I'm brewing a Drink by clone on dec 1st. I'll post my progress with that, but hope to have it kegged one week after brewing.

One other thing. Oxygen injection. I bought a Dissolved oxygen meter. The standard 60-90 second rule I had been following resulted in much lower than expected dissolved oxygen levels. Took much longer. I'm still new at using the meter and have tried using a newer regulator and medical oxygen tank now. But the consensus so far is that unless you know, you're only guessing. Same as with yeast health and viability, especially the liquid yeast, as I mentioned earlier.

Attention to these details will be needed to a flawless fermentation and optimal grain to glass time. I also am going to start using the co2 injector with the diffusion stone to more quickly carbonate my beer to the desired level. I am hoping that I can be drinking a glass of chilled carbonated beer 1 week after brewing.

TD

 

[Seven]

I usually do 2+ week primaries when I'm not in a rush to drink the beer. Sometimes I will do much shorter primaries that are grain to glass in 14-days. I do this by hitting my target mash temps, aerating the wort well, pitching the correct amount of healthy yeast, using fermentation temperature control, and burst carbing in the keg. The end result is just as good as the batches that were in the fermenter for weeks longer. My 14-day batches may not be as clear as the ones that had more time to condition and settle out, but if I need the beer in a hurry then the clarity isn't that important to me.

 

[Yooper]

Yooper, do you think that my method of kegging and leaving at 12 psi for 2-3 weeks could have something to do with the green beer taste when sampling sooner? Carbonation changes the ph levels. So, if I get to the desired carbonation level within 36 hours, am I accomplishing the same thing that I am experiencing at week 3 sooner?....beer tastes ready...no more yeasty taste, clean beer, etc?

No. Green beer is green beer, carbed or not. I'm talking about having the beer ready before packaging.

Ok I've bought into the whole 3 week primary and have even been pushing 4 weeks lately. Now I read here I may not need to do that. I have to admit this forum and people like Yooper and Revvy have been my teachers for the last year as I have became addicted to brewing my own beer. Now I feel like a little kid who has walked into the living room at midnight on Christmas Eve to find my parents are really Santa Claus..... Everything I came to believe to be true is not so real after all. So do I start testing my gravity at 10 days and bottle when it hits FG for 2 times or do I still let it sit for 3-4 weeks? Next thing I will discover is the Easter Bunny isn't real either. For all of us who don't belong to brew clubs or have a person to teach us (except the awesome kind souls on this website that take the time to help us), what is the best thing/way for us to proceed in the future? Inquiring minds want to know.

Oh by the way I bottle condition if that makes a difference

I"ve never been a 'month in primary' type of brewer, but I know there are some that are. A well made beer simply doesn't need that, although it may not hurt the beer of course.

Something to think about- Basic Brewing Radio did an experiment a while back (I"d have to check the archives to find out when, but about 2 years ago?). The experiment was this- the same beer with a primary only and relatively short (10 days or so I believe) and then with a month-long primary.

Some brewers preferred the first, and some preferred the second. I prefer the flavor of a shorter primay, assuming the beer is clear of course. I don't like the yeast character I pick up in a longer primary. Of course, just as many will prefer the flavor of the longer primary.

I usually do 2+ week primaries when I'm not in a rush to drink the beer. Sometimes I will do much shorter primaries that are grain to glass in 14-days. I do this by hitting my target mash temps, aerating the wort well, pitching the correct amount of healthy yeast, using fermentation temperature control, and burst carbing in the keg. The end result is just as good as the batches that were in the fermenter for weeks longer. My 14-day batches may not be as clear as the ones that had more time to condition and settle out, but if I need the beer in a hurry then the clarity isn't that important to me.

For me, "rush" or not doesn't come into play. I simply prefer the flavor of the beer with about 10-14 days in the fermenter. But those keys you mentioned about temperature control, pitching amount and temp, aeration, etc really are important to a healthy fermentation.

A healthy fermentation means no "green beer" taste when it's done.

As far as clarity, I do not filter and my beers are clear when I drink them. It's one of those little things that is important to me as I prefer to have a nice clear beer to drink vs a cloudy beer. Some people don't care about that as much.

 

[Jacinthebox]

most of my APA's and IPA's are brewed and bottled in 15 days.
when they are done, and clear, I bottle...I also don't like to leave them on the dry hop for more than 10 days

normally it's (not always) 5 days in the primary, 10 days in the secondary (the last 24hrs are cold crashing)...then bottle

 

[Seven]

Another way to help speed up the clearing process is to use a highly flocculent yeast strain, like WLP007.

 

[TrickyDick]

Another way to help speed up the clearing process is to use a highly flocculent yeast strain, like WLP007.

I'm trying the Mangrove Jack M07 Yeast soon (For the Drink By Clone) which is rumored to be a dry version of the WLP007.

Good info here.

TD

 

[iowabrew]

i make a boat bitter (per Michael Dawson) that was done and being drank by day 10. Took a few days to really come into it's own but it's possible to be drinking your batch within 2 weeks no problem

 

[rklinck]

I will lend my two cents as well. I often keg my beers two weeks after brewing and do not have a problem with "green beer." I sometimes think people attribute any off flavors to "green beer"; I know that early on, I would simply assume that beers were green when I was not a huge fan.

There are some beers that I certainly enjoy more after they have aged a bit (stouts are the most obvious example among my staple brews), but I get that result by cold conditioning the beer for a few weeks.

One question that this conversation does raise for me is about the benefits of lagering -- especially among the German hyrbrid ales. The "cleanup" has definitely happened before the beer is cold conditioned, so what exactly is happening during the cold conditioning that makes the beers even cleaner?

 

[Yooper]

One question that this conversation does raise for me is about the benefits of lagering -- especially among the German hyrbrid ales. The "cleanup" has definitely happened before the beer is cold conditioned, so what exactly is happening during the cold conditioning that makes the beers even cleaner?

Ah, cold conditioning (lagering) is a whole 'nother ballgame!

Keeping the beer very cold, near freezing if possible, does do magical things to beer in time. Not just dropping proteins that create chill haze, but polyphenols (tannins) and that "smooths" and "crisps" the beer.

As quick as I am to drink an ale that is made well, I never skip on lagering if my beer can benefit from it! About 8 weeks is not uncommon for me with a lager of 1.065 OG or so, or greater, as it really does make a difference in the crisp finish and "cleanness" of a lager.

 

[TrickyDick]

Ah, cold conditioning (lagering) is a whole 'nother ballgame!

Keeping the beer very cold, near freezing if possible, does do magical things to beer in time. Not just dropping proteins that create chill haze, but polyphenols (tannins) and that "smooths" and "crisps" the beer.

As quick as I am to drink an ale that is made well, I never skip on lagering if my beer can benefit from it! About 8 weeks is not uncommon for me with a lager of 1.065 OG or so, or greater, as it really does make a difference in the crisp finish and "cleanness" of a lager.

My first ever Dopplebock (including the 80%+ grain decoction step) beer is "lagering" as we speak! Its in my serving fridge with the gas-in connections connected to bev tube in an airlock fashion to keep the yeasties alive... 10.1% ABV my last measure. End of February it should be ready following the rule for how many weeks to lager based on the OG/Brix. This one is gonna be good. No more lagers for me until my plastic conical fermenter project is done. They clog the pipeline with my current setup. The triple plastic gycol conical build is going to introduce an era of lagers the likes of which my friends and family have never seen....

TD

 

[Titan88]

Stone brews an IIPA with a drink by date ( that's also the name of the beer "drink by IPA" I think.. ) that I'm told is six weeks past brew day.
I was told they filter the beer, and it's fermented within 6 days and kegged the next.
They were a bit sketchy on the details, but the definitely filter I was told.
Some styles obviously better suited to faster turnaround.

TD

"Stone Enjoy By"

 

[BrewmeisterSmith]

Just a follow up post to let you all know what I found through my trials. Basically, clean clean clean fermentation is key. I let one batch sit on the yeast cake for about 4 weeks and tasted yeasty off flavors. I was also stuck on dry yeast, which I will not knock. I do think that for me, using a starter produces the best result. I found that a 10 day ferment is enough time to clean up and not pick up yeasty flavors. I have done several of these where I do 10 days, then gelatin for clarification. Seems to work well for me. Some of my higher ibu beers may need some additional time to round out.