Beer Crook

SSBrew - 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Monkey-BB

Monkey-BB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2014
Messages
200
Reaction score
40
Location
Boston
So,
I have a great friend who is a plumber. He loves craft beer, and Homebrew. We kinda made a deal that he would do some plumbing work for me for some Homebrew. So this is how we stand: I gave him a 10 gallon cooler with a false bottom and brewed 2 different 10 gallon batches that he got half of...I thought he was planning to build a rig but it seems he is content with hus keezer and my brew.
Honestly I've been brewing 5 gallon batches for myself to keep a steady supply of Homebrew in my keezer.
It just seems to me that a brew partner is such a pain in the ass sometimes. Espessually when you bust your ass making it.
Anyone have any advice?
 
From your description he isn't really a brew partner. He is supposed do do plumbing work in exchange for beer.

Has he done the plumbing work yet?
 
Maybe, your friend is on a plumbing forum saying something similar about you.
Maybe, he is saying. I have a buddy that needs the turd receiver replaced, because his kid threw a bowling ball in it, turning it into shards. He wants to trade some beer that he made and a smelly, warped, cooler for my labor. I didn't mind trading with him at first, but then this came up.
During the time when the toilet was smashed, until the day that I replaced it, he used two home depot buckets as a loo.
The week after I had replaced the john, he called and asked if I'd like to watch him brew beer. So, I went to his house. It was at that time when I noticed a home depot bucket full of beer, which he was bottling. My brain went into shock, awe and paranoia. Somehow, I calmly asked, "is that one of the buckets that was in the bathroom last week?" He replied, "sure is, but I soaked it in Star San and Clorox all last week. I can't live without my homer buckets. I use one for compost and the other is used when the cat box is cleaned out. I'm getting good use out of the two buckets."
So, my fellow plumbers, I need your counsel. How do I tell my friend, who somehow, came up with the crazy idea that the trade included me becoming his brewing partner to help him brew the beer that he is suppose to give to me for my labor, especially after seeing the home depot loo/brew bucket, that I don't want to be his brew buddy?
 
Clonefan94 said:
I'm kind of confused, as the others are. Is he not doing the plumbing work he promised?
Click to expand...

It's a small 5 foot natural gas job... Just doesn't seem to be on the radar screen-
But has no problem swinging by to drop off an empty corney keg...

Not a big deal, maybe I was venting when I started the thread, but I can't allow myself to "give" away anymore if the beer I bust my a** making.
 
Monkey-BB said:
It's a small 5 foot natural gas job... Just doesn't seem to be on the radar screen-
But has no problem swinging by to drop off an empty corney keg...

Not a big deal, maybe I was venting when I started the thread, but I can't allow myself to "give" away anymore if the beer I bust my a** making.
Click to expand...

No work, no beer.

It'll work itself out.
 
Monkey-BB said:
[...] We kinda made a deal that he would do some plumbing work for me for some Homebrew. [...] and brewed 2 different 10 gallon batches that he got half of... [...]
Click to expand...

So he owes you a plumbing job. You spent 10 hours, 5 for you, 5 for him. Now he needs to put in his share, 5 hours. If... you trust him to do as good a job as you did on your beer.

Monkey-BB said:
[...] So this is how we stand: I gave him a 10 gallon cooler with a false bottom [...]
Click to expand...

I don't see where that was mentioned as part of the deal. But it may exist, off this record. If he doesn't want to get into brewing himself, as most people truly don't, you should probably take it back, unless there was another barter agreement there.

Now if you want to keep him as a friend, outside of being his craft beer supplier, there are ways to do that of course.

I've been conned into similar (non-brewing) schemes a few times in the past (stoopid gullible me), and as it turns out, my expert labor wasn't valued as high as the other parties'. Now that's NOT (!) gonna slip by again as long as I have my faculties. You get wiser when you get older.
 
Last edited:
VladOfTrub said:
Maybe, your friend is on a plumbing forum saying something similar about you.
Maybe, he is saying. I have a buddy that needs the turd receiver replaced, because his kid threw a bowling ball in it, turning it into shards. He wants to trade some beer that he made and a smelly, warped, cooler for my labor. I didn't mind trading with him at first, but then this came up.
During the time when the toilet was smashed, until the day that I replaced it, he used two home depot buckets as a loo.
The week after I had replaced the john, he called and asked if I'd like to watch him brew beer. So, I went to his house. It was at that time when I noticed a home depot bucket full of beer, which he was bottling. My brain went into shock, awe and paranoia. Somehow, I calmly asked, "is that one of the buckets that was in the bathroom last week?" He replied, "sure is, but I soaked it in Star San and Clorox all last week. I can't live without my homer buckets. I use one for compost and the other is used when the cat box is cleaned out. I'm getting good use out of the two buckets."
So, my fellow plumbers, I need your counsel. How do I tell my friend, who somehow, came up with the crazy idea that the trade included me becoming his brewing partner to help him brew the beer that he is suppose to give to me for my labor, especially after seeing the home depot loo/brew bucket, that I don't want to be his brew buddy?
Click to expand...

Well I've had my entertainment for the day. I'm going to check out your other posts & see if you'er always this entertaining.

As for the trading sounds like you'll have to corner your friend if you want your gas work done.
 
1975brewer said:
Well I've had my entertainment for the day. I'm going to check out your other posts & see if you'er always this entertaining.

As for the trading sounds like you'll have to corner your friend if you want your gas work done.
Click to expand...

Thanks everyone---
 
Monkey-BB said:
It's a small 5 foot natural gas job... Just doesn't seem to be on the radar screen-
But has no problem swinging by to drop off an empty corney keg...

Not a big deal, maybe I was venting when I started the thread, but I can't allow myself to "give" away anymore if the beer I bust my a** making.
Click to expand...

Seems like one full corny would be plenty of payment for a quick gas line job, especially among friends. Throw out the cost of ingredients and add up all the time it took to brew and then finally get packaged into that corny and I'd consider that payment made.

I'd just flat out tell him, "Hey man, the wife said I need to get this plumbing work done before I can brew again.
 
Clonefan94 said:
Seems like one full corny would be plenty of payment for a quick gas line job, especially among friends. Throw out the cost of ingredients and add up all the time it took to brew and then finally get packaged into that corny and I'd consider that payment made.

I'd just flat out tell him, "Hey man, the wife said I need to get this plumbing work done before I can brew again.
Click to expand...

He probably wouldn't even be lying either...
 
Clonefan94 said:
Seems like one full corny would be plenty of payment for a quick gas line job, especially among friends. Throw out the cost of ingredients and add up all the time it took to brew and then finally get packaged into that corny and I'd consider that payment made.

I'd just flat out tell him, "Hey man, the wife said I need to get this plumbing work done before I can brew again.
Click to expand...


Of course, if he is as much of a leech as made out to be he will expect another corny soon after finishing his gas line job.
 
I disagree with pretty much everybody. Your ingredient costs for 5 gallons don't even cover his cost's for 5 foot of gas line. Keep in mind this man's time comes with the cost of operating a business, which include, personal and business insurance, a vehicle, and whatever he usually gets paid per hour for turd herding.

Obviously, a personal friendship alters things somewhat, but still he deserves what he is owed.
 
I think that he's been paid a fair wage for his time and materials. If he wants more beer he needs to fund it and/or contribute time to brewing.
My apologies, I gotta learn to read better... I thought the job had been completed. I'm a licensed contractor and I would never do this to someone. Cut 'im off 'til the work is done!
 
watermelon83 said:
I disagree with pretty much everybody. Your ingredient costs for 5 gallons don't even cover his cost's for 5 foot of gas line. Keep in mind this man's time comes with the cost of operating a business, which include, personal and business insurance, a vehicle, and whatever he usually gets paid per hour for turd herding.

Obviously, a personal friendship alters things somewhat, but still he deserves what he is owed.
Click to expand...

It takes me about six hours to brew, from the time I grab the first gear out of the closet to the placing of that last piece of gear back in the closet. Add the cleaning of the keg, then transferring that, you'd have a good 7 hours of your own time invested in putting that beer together for him to take home and tap.

I've actually helped run gas line before, seems that 5 gallons of beer packaged and ready to go, would be a good trade for running some gas line. I would also assume that if I was having him run the line for me, I'd be paying for the materials involved.

I'm not usually one who adds cost of labor into my homebrew, but that's because I've never had to put a monetary value on it. If I had to as in a business transaction, my time involved would definitely count for something. And if I were charging plumber wages for my brew time, I feel like he'd actually still owe me something else.

I think the main part of the frustration here, from the OP, lies in the fact that the job hasn't been done. The guy seems to be milking his position in the deal for free beer. I'm not a dickhead and personally look at it this way. IF the guy were truly a friend, came over, knocked out the job in a timely manner and did it as a favor to a friend kind of thing, I'd have no problem giving him some free beer pretty regularly. I usually bring at least one of my 2.5 gallon kegs to most friends get togethers anyways. I brew beer to share.

I'm definitely into the scratch my back, I'll scratch yours mentality. That doesn't seem to be the case here. Seems to me the plumber is holding this job over his head to get free kegs. I'm a graphic designer by trade and do stuff for friends all the time. First of all, it's one of those things you do for friends. But, my friends aren't dicks either and usually end up either buying me some nice beer or taking me out for dinner to pay me back. I've never held it over their head though saying, "Hey, when i get that dinner, you'll get that logo. It's just basic respect for friends, imo.
 
Clonefan94 said:
It takes me about six hours to brew, from the time I grab the first gear out of the closet to the placing of that last piece of gear back in the closet. Add the cleaning of the keg, then transferring that, you'd have a good 7 hours of your own time invested in putting that beer together for him to take home and tap.

I've actually helped run gas line before, seems that 5 gallons of beer packaged and ready to go, would be a good trade for running some gas line. I would also assume that if I was having him run the line for me, I'd be paying for the materials involved.

I'm not usually one who adds cost of labor into my homebrew, but that's because I've never had to put a monetary value on it. If I had to as in a business transaction, my time involved would definitely count for something. And if I were charging plumber wages for my brew time, I feel like he'd actually still owe me something else.

I think the main part of the frustration here, from the OP, lies in the fact that the job hasn't been done. The guy seems to be milking his position in the deal for free beer. I'm not a dickhead and personally look at it this way. IF the guy were truly a friend, came over, knocked out the job in a timely manner and did it as a favor to a friend kind of thing, I'd have no problem giving him some free beer pretty regularly. I usually bring at least one of my 2.5 gallon kegs to most friends get togethers anyways. I brew beer to share.

I'm definitely into the scratch my back, I'll scratch yours mentality. That doesn't seem to be the case here. Seems to me the plumber is holding this job over his head to get free kegs. I'm a graphic designer by trade and do stuff for friends all the time. First of all, it's one of those things you do for friends. But, my friends aren't dicks either and usually end up either buying me some nice beer or taking me out for dinner to pay me back. I've never held it over their head though saying, "Hey, when i get that dinner, you'll get that logo. It's just basic respect for friends, imo.
Click to expand...

If you were a nano-brewer how much beer would you give away to friends? It's the man's time that you pay for in an hourly wage. It's the amount of money he needs to recieve as payment for service to cover his living expenses. As I said being a friend would alter my perspective somewhat, but business is business. If the OP expected it to be a 5-10 gallon and done deal then he should have made the amount to be supplied clear in the verbal contract.
 
watermelon83 said:
If you were a nano-brewer how much beer would you give away to friends? It's the man's time that you pay for in an hourly wage. It's the amount of money he needs to recieve as payment for service to cover his living expenses. As I said being a friend would alter my perspective somewhat, but business is business. If the OP expected it to be a 5-10 gallon and done deal then he should have made the amount to be supplied clear in the verbal contract.
Click to expand...

His post starts with...
Monkey-BB said:
So,
I have a great friend who is a plumber.
Click to expand...

End of story. It's not a contract, it's a deal among friends, why do you keep arguing like this is a contract deal?

None the less, it still takes time to brew beer. Weather it's a business or not, that "friend" should realize your time is valuable as well. If you are willing to do a job for beer, it's no longer a straight business deal. My beer has value, your skills have value, plain and simple. If the plumber wants to be "paid in full" then just do it like you'd do any other business deal.

I'd much rather pay you $200 to do the job than brew you $200 worth of beer based on ingredients alone. That's about what I spend on 6 months worth of brewing.
 
Clonefan94 said:
His post starts with...


End of story. It's not a contract, it's a deal among friends, why do you keep arguing like this is a contract deal?

None the less, it still takes time to brew beer. Weather it's a business or not, that "friend" should realize your time is valuable as well. If you are willing to do a job for beer, it's no longer a straight business deal. My beer has value, your skills have value, plain and simple. If the plumber wants to be "paid in full" then just do it like you'd do any other business deal.

I'd much rather pay you $200 to do the job than brew you $200 worth of beer based on ingredients alone. That's about what I spend on 6 months worth of brewing.
Click to expand...

Then why doesn't he just talk to his friend??? If I have a problem with a "great friend" I don't whine about it on an internet forum, how about you??

You completly skirted my question, so I guess in your mind it's not worth answering. I would assume in this case, one of these gentlemen has a skewed idea of what the contract was. (And yes any agreement involving trade of goods or services is a contract, get over it) If you go back to my original post I state "Obviously, a personal friendship alters things somewhat, but still he deserves what he is owed." so please take this straw man wad it up and into a little ball and......
 
watermelon83 said:
Then why doesn't he just talk to his friend??? If I have a problem with a "great friend" I don't whine about it on an internet forum, how about you??

You completly skirted my question, so I guess in your mind it's not worth answering. I would assume in this case, one of these gentlemen has a skewed idea of what the contract was. (And yes any agreement involving trade of goods or services is a contract, get over it) If you go back to my original post I state "Obviously, a personal friendship alters things somewhat, but still he deserves what he is owed." so please take this straw man wad it up and into a little ball and......
Click to expand...


If I were a Nano brewer, how much would I give away to friends? Sorry, I forgot to answer that part. It depends, but let's say I were a Nano-brewer and I had a graphic designer friend. He said, "Hey, I'll do the logo for you." That dude would get quite a bit of free beer from me. I wouldn't just be passing out free beer.

You say I skirted your question, fine, but you are skirting my whole point. This is a deal amongst friends, your friend should value your time as you value his. I'm not trying to argue the cost of brewing homebrew, I'm trying to say the guy is a ****ty friend. This is why friends shouldn't go into business. Especially in your case where you want to consider everything a "contract" even though you are just doing a friend a favor. I've said all along the plumber seems like a ****ty friend.

Either way, with my time, weather it's on the clock or not, is worth something too. A friend would see that. If the plumber is doing this job instead of taking a paying gig, then he's an idiot. When you "do a favor for a friend." in a situation like this, it's usually on off hours, just as brewing would be for me.

If I had to put a monetary value on my homebrew, I'd put it somewhere in the $100/5 gallon range. "Value" is different than cost. It's a hobby, so it costs me about $20 to brew a beer, add my time though and that value goes up a lot. So, if you want to trade plumbing for homebrew with me, expect about $100 worth of work for one corny keg. And that doesn't include the inconvenience of me no longer having 5 gallons of homebrew I made.

In the end though, I don't trade homebrew for money or services, because that would be illegal, so I guess this whole point is moot.
 
His work time is his personal time. There was no mention that helping a friend would take away time he would be operating his business. Perhaps his business is just busy right now? I have no idea.

But a deal was struck. I think he's been paid for hit personal time very well. I've seen a good plumber in action and it doesn't usually take them very long to do what would take the average DIY guy HOURS.

He's probably just procrastinating. He probably thought the idea of brewing sounded fun, and then realized it actually takes time and effort and some amount of money.
 
There was a Doctor that had some plumbing work done in his home. When the plumber handed the bill for the job to the Doctor. The Doctor's eyes got wide and he shouted at the plumber. "For cripes sakes man, I'm a Doctor and I don't make this kind of money." The plumber replied, "yeah, I never made this kind of money when I was a Doctor."
 
To the OP. I sincerely apologize for making an emotional, homebrew driven comment on YOUR thread that you started in order to get advice or to just vent about a situation that wasn't working out for you.
I'm better than that....really!
 
Onkel_Udo said:
This is the key...an off-the-books deal was struck. This is no longer business but good-old-boy network.
Click to expand...

Yes, but obviously the deal was misunderstood somehow. Whether off the books or not some one is getting the butthurt on this one.
 
Clonefan94 said:
If I were a Nano brewer, how much would I give away to friends? Sorry, I forgot to answer that part. It depends, but let's say I were a Nano-brewer and I had a graphic designer friend. He said, "Hey, I'll do the logo for you." That dude would get quite a bit of free beer from me. I wouldn't just be passing out free beer.

You say I skirted your question, fine, but you are skirting my whole point. This is a deal amongst friends, your friend should value your time as you value his. I'm not trying to argue the cost of brewing homebrew, I'm trying to say the guy is a ****ty friend. This is why friends shouldn't go into business. Especially in your case where you want to consider everything a "contract" even though you are just doing a friend a favor. I've said all along the plumber seems like a ****ty friend.

Either way, with my time, weather it's on the clock or not, is worth something too. A friend would see that. If the plumber is doing this job instead of taking a paying gig, then he's an idiot. When you "do a favor for a friend." in a situation like this, it's usually on off hours, just as brewing would be for me.

If I had to put a monetary value on my homebrew, I'd put it somewhere in the $100/5 gallon range. "Value" is different than cost. It's a hobby, so it costs me about $20 to brew a beer, add my time though and that value goes up a lot. So, if you want to trade plumbing for homebrew with me, expect about $100 worth of work for one corny keg. And that doesn't include the inconvenience of me no longer having 5 gallons of homebrew I made.

In the end though, I don't trade homebrew for money or services, because that would be illegal, so I guess this whole point is moot.
Click to expand...

Again, it was not a favor, it was a trade for services. The OP states he and his friend "kind of made a deal". Why are you arguing that it's not? The entire point of my nano question is if you made your living off of your beer, how much would you give away for free? Your analogy has no footing in this discussion.
 
CJ-3 said:
You misunderstood me. I take offense to your comment that generalized unions as all take and no give.
Click to expand...

You take personal offense to an offhanded comment somebody made while expressing their opinion on a forum on the internet about a general organization?

You do realize this is the INTERNET, right?
 
seigex said:
You take personal offense to an offhanded comment somebody made while expressing their opinion on a forum on the internet about a general organization?

You do realize this is the INTERNET, right?
Click to expand...


Yes I do, and yes I did.
 
The best thing you can do at this point is invite him over for a thick steak and a few cold beers, welcome him into your home as a friend. I have lost so many friends over jobs, "I made it a rule, full payment at time of service" with everyone but Mom. I can't tell you how sad it is to loose a friend over this ship.
 
Thanks Guys---
I writhe the post with a hair across my ass--- just annoyed that he could find time to come over to brew or drop off a keg but not to run the pipe-- I'm over it--
No pipe no beer--
Thanks for the advice
 
watermelon83 said:
Again, it was not a favor, it was a trade for services. The OP states he and his friend "kind of made a deal". Why are you arguing that it's not? The entire point of my nano question is if you made your living off of your beer, how much would you give away for free? Your analogy has no footing in this discussion.
Click to expand...

I never argued it wasn't a deal, I said it was a deal among friends, without a written contract. "Hey, run some pipe, I'll brew you some beer." Could mean anything. My point all along is to just cut the guy off. I just don't understand why you don't give any value to someone's personal time in this kind of a deal.

Are you the plumber in this story? You seem to really care about this guy getting paid. Which, as I said all along, if the plumber cared about getting paid, then he should have asked for money, not beer.
 
Monkey-BB said:
Thanks Guys---
I writhe the post with a hair across my ass--- just annoyed that he could find time to come over to brew or drop off a keg but not to run the pipe-- I'm over it--
No pipe no beer--
Thanks for the advice
Click to expand...
I assume you struck the deal a while back, right? I would inform him, rather than just cut him off, that there is no more beer because the work was not finished. Next time it may be easier to say you'll give XXX gallons of beer for a job. I did that when I asked for help in naming my garage...my brewery. I said, 2 cases of beer (aka a batch) for a name. Nothing more. For the work you needed, I assume the cost would be higher.
 
This thread got really stupid.

"ERRG it's hard laying pipe, flargelblarg! CONTRACT NEEDERS!"

"It's not a contract, it's a dude and his buddy working out a deal between friends and the buddy is being a bit of a ******, making beer isn't as easy as AB says. Really, shouldn't even be an issue if the plumber was a decent friend."

"I'M STILL RIGHT, HERRRRRRR."

Good god, people.
 

Similar threads

orgenomescii
Brewing like a Barbarian: Ancient Irish Descriptions of Malting & Brewing
Replies
3
Views
2K
Garage Brewer
Garage Brewer
C
Best brewing system for 5-15 gallon batches
Replies
25
Views
2K
Ninoid
Ninoid
Stormcrow
Patoka Lake Brewing
Replies
1
Views
741
Sailingeric
Sailingeric
Gytaryst
Looking for Small Batch Fermentation Suggestions and Ideas
Replies
14
Views
1K
rizziot
R
khannon
Adding Flavors to beer(?)...
Replies
3
Views
937
BrewZer
BrewZer

Latest posts

Back
Top