Basement E-Brewery

[Lucky_Chicken]

Something like this ghetto drawing attempts to do display. So in short, inline fan to draw in steam from brew kettle. Steam in pipe condenses due to the cold water jacket and collects in bucket on the floor.

The things I don't know start with... 1. how much piping is needed to ensure say 80% condensation of steam? 2. Will the piping heat up from being over the kettle and need to have the cold water in the jacket pumped out throughout the brew session (I have an old washer pump that I could use to recirculate that runs on 120v)?


Not sure on those, but I think it may be worth a try.

In my situation where I currently have my brew rig I do not have an easy way to vent it outside. Surrounded by concrete block and no accessible windows (just a storm door).

I like that... let me know how it works... I would like to do something like that in my shop to keep from installing a perminate hood, this was a sugestion on how big brewerys do it also except they dump in a floor drain, have no fan, and the jacket is a cooling coil

 

[CidahMastah]

I like that... let me know how it works... I would like to do something like that in my shop to keep from installing a perminate hood, this was a sugestion on how big brewerys do it also except they dump in a floor drain, have no fan, and the jacket is a cooling coil

Any idea on how they draw the steam in and down since they don't use a fan? The biggest thing holding me up to try this is that I have to buy a fan and I am not sure which would be the best to buy given that it will get soaking wet with each use and likely live a short life because of the associated corrosion. I can't get myself to fork over cash on something if it will be ruined shortly thereafter. I had been considering the standard Hvac type fans for a bathroom, but doen't think they will have enough CFM to do what I want. All that said I think that I want something that will slow air flow down to allow it to cool better. i.e. sheet of metal inline with some holes punched in it to help collect condensation or similar.

 

[Lucky_Chicken]

Any idea on how they draw the steam in and down since they don't use a fan? The biggest thing holding me up to try this is that I have to buy a fan and I am not sure which would be the best to buy given that it will get soaking wet with each use and likely live a short life because of the associated corrosion. I can't get myself to fork over cash on something if it will be ruined shortly thereafter. I had been considering the standard Hvac type fans for a bathroom, but doen't think they will have enough CFM to do what I want. All that said I think that I want something that will slow air flow down to allow it to cool better. i.e. sheet of metal inline with some holes punched in it to help collect condensation or similar.

from what i understand the convection draws the air through it. Since the cooling lines in it cause the air in the tube to be cold thus heavy falling in the tube pulling hot air in the top. they also have a lot farther vertical drop being a much bigger pot so that might help also.

 

[CidahMastah]

from what i understand the convection draws the air through it. Since the cooling lines in it cause the air in the tube to be cold thus heavy falling in the tube pulling hot air in the top. they also have a lot farther vertical drop being a much bigger pot so that might help also.

Gotcha - don't think that I will be able to create the necessary draft as I am not going to have a vertical rise much more than 6 feet or so.

 

[Rondacker]

How did your hood work by the way? My buddy grabbed some of that flex piping you have there (he said it was stainless) and I was thinking of whether or not I could use it. I guess that also depends on the fan CFM too. Looks like I might have to get something that will accommodate that sizing.

I have been kicking around the idea of building a hood and venting outside or trying to vent inside. Was considering building a candy cane shaped bit of tubing that would connect to a hood and have a fan to draw the boil off into the piping. On the vertical side the steam would blow down and be chilled by water. Was thinking for cheap a couple homer buckets sealed together with acrylic silicone to make a cooling jacket.

it would work by drawing steam in and cooling it via the water jacket and causing it to condense and drain into a bucket.

As it was tested, not well enough. I did see some minor steam drifting around the rim of the hood. I'm stuck with the fan, so, reducing the hood size is required to increase the velocity and static pressure above the kettle. (face velocity) I'm going to try a smaller hood just over the boil kettle. Doing this will give me maybe twice the flow. I can test with a velometer as i experiment I'll need to figure out a way to deal with the condensation that will form on the hood. Commercial hoods have baffles tilted to a drain troth. Maybe a gutter like on a house? I'm thinking tha there isn't enough steam coming off my covered HLT to worry about a hood over it?

 

[CidahMastah]

As it was tested, not well enough. I did see some minor steam drifting around the rim of the hood. I'm stuck with the fan, so, reducing the hood size is required to increase the velocity and static pressure above the kettle. (face velocity) I'm going to try a smaller hood just over the boil kettle. Doing this will give me maybe twice the flow. I can test with a velometer as i experiment I'll need to figure out a way to deal with the condensation that will form on the hood. Commercial hoods have baffles tilted to a drain troth. Maybe a gutter like on a house? I'm thinking tha there isn't enough steam coming off my covered HLT to worry about a hood over it?

I agree about the HLT. Not enough steam from my 4 brew sessions to warrant a hood over that. BK, well that is another story That said I was able to brew by cracking open that exterior door for a few minutes here and there and have condensed water to a reasonable level for testing the rig. So I can brew, but it is a problem that needs to be solved.

I also was thinking if I could get the hood on the BK it would have to be non galvanized metal and stainless or a rated plastic, etc., because of potential condensation dripping back into the beer. I was planning on trying to find something that might allow some or most condensation to run off (rain gutter style as you suggested as with actual cooking stove hoods). One reason I didn't want to use flex tubing was so condensation would not pool and roll back into the BK. I was hoping putting a steep 90 degree bend back to the floor with cooling (as in my ghetto picture) might catch a certain percentage of the water. If I could get 60-70% of the water to condense and drip into my bucket I would be good. I just don't think I will be able to get a number that high for retention....

 

[Rondacker]

I agree about the HLT. Not enough steam from my 4 brew sessions to warrant a hood over that. BK, well that is another story That said I was able to brew by cracking open that exterior door for a few minutes here and there and have condensed water to a reasonable level for testing the rig. So I can brew, but it is a problem that needs to be solved.

I also was thinking if I could get the hood on the BK it would have to be non galvanized metal and stainless or a rated plastic, etc., because of potential condensation dripping back into the beer. I was planning on trying to find something that might allow some or most condensation to run off (rain gutter style as you suggested as with actual cooking stove hoods). One reason I didn't want to use flex tubing was so condensation would not pool and roll back into the BK. I was hoping putting a steep 90 degree bend back to the floor with cooling (as in my ghetto picture) might catch a certain percentage of the water. If I could get 60-70% of the water to condense and drip into my bucket I would be good. I just don't think I will be able to get a number that high for retention....

Good thought on the flex pipe. Once I come up with the right hood I'll pipe it with the rest of the PVC I have.
I'm also thinking that insulating the hood may eliminate some condensation.

I think that the convection/condensation plan is a good idea. If you can get a draft going (small fan) enough to move the hot/cold air, it could work..

 

[CidahMastah]

Good thought on the flex pipe. Once I come up with the right hood I'll pipe it with the rest of the PVC I have.
I'm also thinking that insulating the hood may eliminate some condensation.

I think that the convection/condensation plan is a good idea. If you can get a draft going (small fan) enough to move the hot/cold air, it could work..

My washer just went last night... almost $1000 later we have a new one. My beer refrigerator tanked about two weeks ago, so about the same $$ for a new one of those.... Looks like this project just got sidelined for a bit

 

[Rondacker]

My washer just went last night... almost $1000 later we have a new one. My beer refrigerator tanked about two weeks ago, so about the same $$ for a new one of those.... Looks like this project just got sidelined for a bit

Oh man! That's rough. I hope you can get back to the project soon.

 

[WAORGANY]

My washer just went last night... almost $1000 later we have a new one. My beer refrigerator tanked about two weeks ago, so about the same $$ for a new one of those.... Looks like this project just got sidelined for a bit

Man that's tough....I am getting ready to start my build your welcome to drive up north when I do, always have Breton tap too. Keep us posted hope you get back at it soon good luck.

 

[iijakii]

My washer just went last night... almost $1000 later we have a new one. My beer refrigerator tanked about two weeks ago, so about the same $$ for a new one of those.... Looks like this project just got sidelined for a bit

I feel for you, man

I was planning an electric system around October last year and then I had a cracked radiator in my WRX and the very next week after dropping $400 someone backed into my PARKED car and drove off. Just now starting to get back into it.

 

[CidahMastah]

iijakii - that really sucks. People with no backbone really annoy me. I would have sucked it up and left my information on the car I wacked.

Thanks guys!

I think I will take the time to do some good planning for rebuilding the ventilation set up as well as how I am going to rebuild my new control panel. Good news is that I can still brew on my electric rig for now. I have had the rig for almost a year and put a lot through it. Still kicking arse!

Waorgany - awesome that you are starting to get your rig assembled. You are going to love it. You jumping in on the All grain buy that is going on this time? I think it will be closing up in the next month or two at soonest.

 

[CidahMastah]

Checked out the LHBS for the hydroponic growing fans. A bit pricing but man they look like they would work great for moving the air fast. I am starting to think that if you created enough suction with your cfm you might not need a big expensive hood, rather a reducer/expander.

Rondacker - you happy with the cfm from your fan?

 

[WAORGANY]

iijakii - that really sucks. People with no backbone really annoy me. I would have sucked it up and left my information on the car I wacked.

Thanks guys!

I think I will take the time to do some good planning for rebuilding the ventilation set up as well as how I am going to rebuild my new control panel. Good news is that I can still brew on my electric rig for now. I have had the rig for almost a year and put a lot through it. Still kicking arse!

Waorgany - awesome that you are starting to get your rig assembled. You are going to love it. You jumping in on the All grain buy that is going on this time? I think it will be closing up in the next month or two at soonest.

Yeah I need to look at the thread and see what I need and get some on hand and ready, thanks for the reminder. Did you guys decided to do hops or not? Thanks.

 

[CidahMastah]

Yeah I need to look at the thread and see what I need and get some on hand and ready, thanks for the reminder. Did you guys decided to do hops or not? Thanks.

you can buy hops through them, but unless you buy 11lbs at a time the price isn't anything phenomenal. So yes you can buy hops by the lb but they are subject to availability and the spot pricing.

 

[Rondacker]

Checked out the LHBS for the hydroponic growing fans. A bit pricing but man they look like they would work great for moving the air fast. I am starting to think that if you created enough suction with your cfm you might not need a big expensive hood, rather a reducer/expander.

Rondacker - you happy with the cfm from your fan?

I have the greenhouse fan that you mentioned.
It's about 400 cfm. As for the hood; I need to make it smaller to increase the flow over the boil kettle. I'll be trying the fitting that I was originally going to modify. I'm going to try it as is. 27"x27". I figure that I should approximately double the flow. I may test it this week.

 

[Rondacker]

I wasn't happy with the way the temporary ghetto hood worked during my test brew. I took it down and installed the salvaged fitting I had originally planed to modify. I installed it as I found it. "27 by"27. I lowered it closer to the kettle, and secured it to the wall and ceiling. I dovetailed the "6 PVC to the hood, sealed and screwed it in place.

I insulated the pipe and fan with reflectix.

I did a full, rolling boil test and the steam exhausted quite well. I couldn't see any escaping at all.

I did notice some condensation on the inside at the top. It did not drip down at all. The flow of air seemed to pick up the moisture. (Like the defroster in a car)

Since I had enough reflectix, I decided to wrap the hood and give it another test. After a 1-hour 100% boil, very little condensation.

Here's a shot of the controller, cleaned up after the shake down brew.

By the way, the brew came out great!

 

[Rondacker]

My next project for the brewery is to add the plate chiller that a friend gave me.
I'm wondering how I should use it. Should I re-circ and cool with the chiller, or use gravity flow directly into the fermenter, as I do now with my CF Chiller?

If I were to re-circulate back to the BK, what would the procedure be? What, if any additional sanitation procedures are required?

Thanks to the forum for the ideas and support!

 

[CidahMastah]

Looking really great! Looks like you are full on ready for action.

I think the plate chiller is the same concept as the counter flow. Only reason to recirc would be if you want to whirlpool and remove hot/cold break matter/ hop matter. I know you have to be more careful with that end of it with the the plate chillers as they can clog easily. But only what I heard as I use a IC.

Just curious - where did you get your illuminated switches? Link?

I am still looking for a well priced enclosure, and picking up parts here and there for my new 60amp capacity controller build.

 

[Rondacker]

Looking really great! Looks like you are full on ready for action.

I think the plate chiller is the same concept as the counter flow. Only reason to recirc would be if you want to whirlpool and remove hot/cold break matter/ hop matter. I know you have to be more careful with that end of it with the the plate chillers as they can clog easily. But only what I heard as I use a IC.

Just curious - where did you get your illuminated switches? Link?

I am still looking for a well priced enclosure, and picking up parts here and there for my new 60amp capacity controller build.

I got the switches and panel breakers at automation direct. http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...ctor_Switches_Illuminated_-a-_Non-Illuminated

 

[CidahMastah]

Cool - I wish they had those in 120V!

Did you find your fan, while it got the job done, could use a little extra kick? I was looking a a 747 cfm fan and was wondering if that was ridiculous overkill. It has an 8'' pipe and I was basically just looking to use an expander/reducer at instead of a hood at first.

 

[-MG-]

Did you run the system without the insulation? What were the differences? I currently have my fan setup (haven't tested yet), and have rigid duct working in, uninsulated and while I know this works fine for Kal at the electricbrewery. I'm curious if it's something I should look into.

 

[Rondacker]

Cool - I wish they had those in 120V!

If you are talking the switches, yes, they are available with 120-V indicators.
You can get them configured for almost any switching/indicator combo you need.

Did you find your fan, while it got the job done, could use a little extra kick? I was looking a a 747 cfm fan and was wondering if that was ridiculous overkill. It has an 8'' pipe and I was basically just looking to use an expander/reducer at instead of a hood at first.

Yes, it got the job done. My installation was a bit noisey. Added CFM would add to the noise. I don't think I would want any more in my situation.
Your thought to use a reducing fitting is a good one. You could connect it to the duct with a short bit of flex. That way you could lower it to the kettle, then raise it for hops additions, etc.

 

[CidahMastah]

I did't see those switches with 120v were they on that site? Forgive me if I totally botched it (Still learning with electrical so I tend to shy away unless someone who knows tells me it is the right part)

 

[CidahMastah]

would this be the type I would look for?

 

[xsists]

would this be the type I would look for?

Yes, those are illuminated though. This project looks to be using non-illuminated switches.

 

[CidahMastah]

Oh I thought his had LEDs in them. I am basically looking for a 120 led switch that illuminated, or illuminates when turned to the on position. I was using SPDT switches before and wanted to change them to something a little cooler. I figured I could save on cost from going switches, + a 22mm light to indicate on. This way I combine the light and the switch.

 

[CidahMastah]

I think these are actually what I am looking for

if i have it right these would be normally opened, then maintained when closed (no spring back).

 

[xsists]

Both links are showing the same part number.

 

[CidahMastah]

Both links are showing the same part number.

oops my bad!

I thought I had tagged the spring mechanism switches in the first link.

So I guess my question to you guys is (maybe more directed at Rondacker since he has the switches in hand):

1. Are the switches constantly illuminated? Or only when they are turned to the closed position?
2. The N.O. (normally open) means that in the off position (dial to the left) it is maintained off. Turning clockwise = maintained closed position "on" with no spring mechanism back.

I am still struggling a little with the H/W lingo for switches and before I buy 6 of these bad boys I would love to know what I am getting.

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[P-J]

...
1. Are the switches constantly illuminated? Or only when they are turned to the closed position?
2. The N.O. (normally open) means that in the off position (dial to the left) it is maintained off. Turning clockwise = maintained closed position "on" with no spring mechanism back.
...

#1 - This depends on how you wire the indicator lamp. If you wire it from the switch load side (through the lamp to neutral) it will be on only when the switch is on. If you wire it from the power input side it will be always on.
#2 - That particular switch is a maintained switch. (No spring return.)

 

[CidahMastah]

#1 - This depends on how you wire the indicator lamp. If you wire it from the switch load side (through the lamp to neutral) it will be on only when the switch is on. If you wire it from the power input side it will be always on.
#2 - That particular switch is a maintained switch. (No spring return.)

Thanks PJ - it looks like I will be able to figure this out once I have the switch in hand. From what you are saying it sounds like I will be able to make that determination when I do the wiring.

I think I might grab two of these and try them out, then decide if they are right for the rest of my set up.

Thanks!

 

[Rondacker]

I finally got my plate heat exchanger installed;

The wort side is hi-temp silicone with quick connects. The water side is hoses.

I did a stout the other day, and the wort got from boiling to 68* in about 10-minutes. (re-circ and winter water temp is about 52*)

The system works great, I got 75% eff with this last batch.

Now on to tidying up the sensor wiring and labeling the hoses. (I want to remove them to dry, and keep in a cabinet away from critters)

Thanks to everyone for the support and great information!:rockin:

 

[jholen]

Awesome!

 

[Rivenin]

someday... someday... lol congrats!

 

[rfinley]

Hey Rondacker, it was great to have met you this past weekend. I found the thread on your build, it will be a great reference as I start mine. Sorry I didn't get to wish you a safe trip home. I was packing up and looked over and you were gone !! I'm sure I'll have some questions so stay tuned. Your maple ale was GREAT !!

 

[Rondacker]

Thanks Randy. We enjoyed the campfire with your family. The pepper (chipolte?)
ale was very good. I hope you build the brewery. Let me know if I can help in any way.
Cheers

 

[Fly_Rodder]

I did a stout the other day, and the wort got from boiling to 68* in about 10-minutes. (re-circ and winter water temp is about 52*)

What are you using to filter your wort prior to chilling? Or do you filter, if it all, post chill? I was using a hop stopper, but I'm not a huge fan and I'm looking for alternatives.

 

[Rondacker]

I'm whirlpooling and using Irish moss. Since the post about the stout I have done two other brews with no trouble so far. I clean up by circulating oxyclean with the heat set to 180. Rinse the HX with fresh water. I'm not filtering.

 

[wadefisher]

I would have some kind of screen on pickup tube or inline when using a heat exchanger. Larger particles can get lodged in them and make problems cooling and sterilizing on the following batches. Just My Opinion