Auto Sparge vs Ss Manifold

[Troxs]

I've decided to build my new system using a InfuSsion Mash Tun. It'll be a 2-vessel system similar to the Brew Easy setup (full water volume re-circ/no sparge). My question is should I use the Ss Manifold for re-circulation, or would a auto sparge work better?

My thoughts: I feel the manifold will hold a more evenly spaced re-circ, but I fear that it'll A.) "sink" into the grain bed, and B.) it'll take quite a bit of tinkering to get the re-circ at the perfect rate to ensure the water levels never raise too high and also never to low. This of course has me thinking the autosparge would be better -- it'll be much easier to maintain the proper liquor levels during the re-circulation. Granted the auto sparge doesn't have the even coverage that the manifold would have.

**DISCLAIMER** I haven't used either, so I could be completely wrong (very possible)

 

[mredge73]

I think the auto sparge will work better, otherwise you will be tinkering flow rate the entire time as the mash tun will drain much slower than what the pump can deliver.
You are doing a no-sparge, even coverage and efficiency simply doesn't matter. Keep the water level in the mash tun 4-6 inches above the grain bed and you won't have any issues with channeling.

 

[Ss_Michael]

I've decided to build my new system using a InfuSsion Mash Tun. It'll be a 2-vessel system similar to the Brew Easy setup (full water volume re-circ/no sparge). My question is should I use the Ss Manifold for re-circulation, or would a auto sparge work better?

My thoughts: I feel the manifold will hold a more evenly spaced re-circ, but I fear that it'll A.) "sink" into the grain bed, and B.) it'll take quite a bit of tinkering to get the re-circ at the perfect rate to ensure the water levels never raise too high and also never to low. This of course has me thinking the autosparge would be better -- it'll be much easier to maintain the proper liquor levels during the re-circulation. Granted the auto sparge doesn't have the even coverage that the manifold would have.

**DISCLAIMER** I haven't used either, so I could be completely wrong (very possible)

We have had guys email in that they use both, its sort of the ultimate setup. The Autosparge to control flow, recirculation manifold to better disperse sparge water or mash recirculation. The Autosparge terminates to a 3/8" ID tube, so it hooks up directly.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[mspropst]

We have had guys email in that they use both, its sort of the ultimate setup. The Autosparge to control flow, recirculation manifold to better disperse sparge water or mash recirculation. The Autosparge terminates to a 3/8" ID tube, so it hooks up directly.

Cheers,
Michael

This is exactly the topic I've been looking to find the answer to all over the internet. Any special modifications besides just removing the float ball off the AutoSparge and hooking tube straight up to the SS Recirculation manifold? Or is that left on to help maintain the manifold above the grain bed?

 

[augiedoggy]

sparge arms are generally regarded as having no functional benefit over a piece of silicone hose unless you are batch sparging and do not have a layer of existing liquid on your grain bed.. this is one of those area where you wont find a lot of data either way but fancy sprinkler systems sre nw regarded to do more harm than good since they just aid in oxidation and cooling the sparge water unless there under the liquid in which case they just make another piece of equipment to clean grain out of with no benefit.. autosparge control is another thing all together.

(BTW Ive tried locline, the SS brewtech sparge manifold as well as a hose and currently use the hose if it matters.

 

[Bobby_M]

I like to use locline pushed onto the autosparge hose barb. It lets you perfectly position the output.

 

[mspropst]

sparge arms are generally regarded as having no functional benefit over a piece of silicone hose unless you are batch sparging and do not have a layer of existing liquid on your grain bed.. this is one of those area where you wont find a lot of data either way but fancy sprinkler systems sre nw regarded to do more harm than good since they just aid in oxidation and cooling the sparge water unless there under the liquid in which case they just make another piece of equipment to clean grain out of with no benefit.. autosparge control is another thing all together.

(BTW Ive tried locline, the SS brewtech sparge manifold as well as a hose and currently use the hose if it matters.

Were you responding to me or the original poster?

 

[augiedoggy]

im responding with my 2 cents to the thread and anyone the information might pertain to for new homebrewers who might not yet know this is all. Before they make the mistakes others like myself make and buy stuff that ends up in a box in the corner because it was more hassle than it was worth. Its totally an individuals choice but more than a few people have discovered a silicone hose depositing the sparge liquid onto the grainbed creates a swirling layer of liquid which does as good a job as any sparge arm if not better unless your sparging onto a dry grainbed which many people avoid. The locline option above mentioned by the vendor that sells it does work well but if the silicone hose is long enough it will rest at the right angle regardless as well. And its easier to keep clean than the locline.. I used locline before trying the ss manifold and then finally switched to the hose and had a duh moment... again just my preference. Btw if you use locline stay with the black stuff, its the only version that foodgrade per the manufacturer. I had some orange stuff which faded bad

 

[mongoose33]

im responding with my 2 cents to the thread and anyone the information might pertain to for new homebrewers who might not yet know this is all. Before they make the mistakes others like myself make and buy stuff that ends up in a box in the corner because it was more hassle than it was worth. Its totally an individuals choice but more than a few people have discovered a silicone hose depositing the sparge liquid onto the grainbed creates a swirling layer of liquid which does as good a job as any sparge arm if not better unless your sparging onto a dry grainbed which many people avoid. The locline option above mentioned by the vendor that sells it does work well but if the silicone hose is long enough it will rest at the right angle regardless as well. And its easier to keep clean than the locline.. I used locline before trying the ss manifold and then finally switched to the hose and had a duh moment... again just my preference. Btw if you use locline stay with the black stuff, its the only version that foodgrade per the manufacturer. I had some orange stuff which faded bad

I remember you saying this about the orange locline stuff a while ago, and did everything i could to identify a source that says the orange stuff is not food grade. I could not find anything on that--and I looked very hard to find it.

Do you have a link on that, or a communication from the manufacturer or anything that shows orange is not food grade?

 

[augiedoggy]

I remember you saying this about the orange locline stuff a while ago, and did everything i could to identify a source that says the orange stuff is not food grade. I could not find anything on that--and I looked very hard to find it.

Do you have a link on that, or a communication from the manufacturer or anything that shows orange is not food grade?

View attachment 612691

It was a few years ago but yeah I found a thread on another forum with copy and pasted info from the manufacturer stating the black stuff is the only certified food grade stuff they sell I do not have it bookmarked sorry. mine is similiar to the one you picture only I had a length of black stuf to raise or lower it depending on mash size..
its wasnt the easiest thing to keep clean inside.
I believe the one brew hardware sells is just the black section of flexible pipe to angle the flow up or down or left to right but uses the same idea that sprinkling whether above ir under the liquid surface has no real advantage.

im surprised you use that actually being that you do LODO. may the idea is less liquid surface disturbance?

 

[mongoose33]

It was a few years ago but yeah I found a thread on another forum with copy and pasted info from the manufacturer stating the black stuff is the only certified food grade stuff they sell I do not have it bookmarked sorry. mine is similiar to the one you picture only I had a length of black stuf to raise or lower it depending on mash size..
its wasnt the easiest thing to keep clean inside.
I believe the one brew hardware sells is just the black section of flexible pipe to angle the flow up or down or left to right but uses the same idea that sprinkling whether above ir under the liquid surface has no real advantage.

im surprised you use that actually being that you do LODO. may the idea is less liquid surface disturbance?

That's exactly why--the liquid rises above it, so no splashing just a return. I use the lid from a stainless kettle as a mash cap.

 

[day_trippr]

The Loc-Line material safety information is one hot mess of contradictions.

Material: Acetal Copolymer
Colors: Blue, Orange, Black, White, Grey
Compatibility:
Yes: Acetone, Alcohol, Ethyl, Greases, Oils, Commercial Dish Detergents, Gasoline, Lacquer Solvents, Sodium Hydroxide
No: Chlorine, Acids, Ammonium Hydroxide, Bases Strong, Hypochlorite Ion Solutions, Sodium Hypochlorite
Melting Point: 329F
Maximum Operating Temperature: 170F (Repeated exposure to this temperature will cause fatigue)

Wait for it...

Information regarding FDA (Federal Food and Drug Administration).

Loc-Line is made of an Acetal copolymer. This material in accordance with the rules in 21CFR 177.2470 meets the requirements of this regulation for food contact. All colorants are used at the recommended let-down ratio to meet 21CRF 178.3297. Loc-Line is not sanctioned for use with alcoholic or fatty foods at any temperature.

So...about that "Yes" on alcohol, greases and oils?

Aaanyway...throw in the not recommended for use with acids (how about pH around 5?) and that 170°F thing I'd be heading straight to the silicone tubing aisle...

Cheers!

 

[Bobby_M]

The Loc-Line material safety information is one hot mess of contradictions.

Material: Acetal Copolymer
Colors: Blue, Orange, Black, White, Grey
Compatibility:
Yes: Acetone, Alcohol, Ethyl, Greases, Oils, Commercial Dish Detergents, Gasoline, Lacquer Solvents, Sodium Hydroxide
No: Chlorine, Acids, Ammonium Hydroxide, Bases Strong, Hypochlorite Ion Solutions, Sodium Hypochlorite
Melting Point: 329F
Maximum Operating Temperature: 170F (Repeated exposure to this temperature will cause fatigue)

Wait for it...

Information regarding FDA (Federal Food and Drug Administration).

Loc-Line is made of an Acetal copolymer. This material in accordance with the rules in 21CFR 177.2470 meets the requirements of this regulation for food contact. All colorants are used at the recommended let-down ratio to meet 21CRF 178.3297. Loc-Line is not sanctioned for use with alcoholic or fatty foods at any temperature.

So...about that "Yes" on alcohol, greases and oils?

Aaanyway...throw in the not recommended for use with acids (how about pH around 5?) and that 170°F thing I'd be heading straight to the silicone tubing aisle...

Cheers!

I've been using the same piece of locline for my recirc return for 5 years and it hasn't seen temps higher than 170F because I don't use it in my boil. It doesn't seem fatigued to me though I'm not even sure how you measure that other than looking for cracks. However, I do get asked about what happens over 170F often. To satisfy my own curiosity, I boiled a piece for 16 hours. No damage. If something can stand up to acetone, a little sugar water is nothing.

 

[Vale71]

So...about that "Yes" on alcohol, greases and oils?

That means the material will withstand contact with said substances but is not certified as food safe if the foodstuff contains them.

 

[day_trippr]

Interesting, but the longer I think about ^that^ the less sense it makes...

Cheers!

 

[Vale71]

Just as an example, if you run machine oil through it you won't care about any PFAS or whatever the material might release into the oil as nobody in their right mind will put machine oil on their salad. If you were to run olive oil through it then it's no longer OK.

 

[Bent-Brewer]

This has gotten a bit off topic so to go back to the original question: I've used the Ss Manifold and while I like it for the fact it is stainless, silicone tubing works just as well for way less cost or hassle. I've never had it stink into the grain bed, though others have. If you're worried about flow rate / water level, then the auto sparge is the way to go. I'd suggest trying without once or twice just so you don't end up tossing it in a box in the corner of you find you don't really need it.

Now to jump back off topic since I've been doing a ton of materials research lately for work: there are tons of proprietary blends for acetal and they typically have pretty good durability, chemical resistance, and thermal range. Added pigment acts as a contaminant during the molding process and can weaken those properties. These are generally evaluated for industry via a number of ASTM tests, but once you get into food or medical devices, the FDA requires the manufacturer to perform additional tests on extractable/leachable materials, biological compatibility, etc for each pigment used before the manufacturer can legally claim it is safe for X application. Without knowing the actual formulation and specific tests/results, you can't really know which acid it is/isn't compatible with (or at what concentration or temperature range), and as a consumer, you're really not going to get access to that often-proprietary information.