anyone that uses austin homebrew see this?

[DoubleAught]

I order from AHS regularly and have NEVER felt like I was getting screwed. I've compared prices on my order and 95% of the time they are the most competitive. If they need to make slight changes to remain that competitive then I have no problem with it.

In fact, I need to make an order tonight and guess who I'm using?

 

[Backporchbrewery]

You must have read a different thread. I saw some discussion, but I didn't see anybody actually complaining.

Eh, I saw it as complaining.

 

[wailingguitar]

Read em all and can't believe $4.99 shipping is a game changer. Try being in business in this economy and trying to make a little profit OR trying to keep your prices low and putting a dent in services that Forrest has no control over.

It is definitely a game changer. Where I had been ordering with them exclusively, I will now shop around and split my orders up. Where I was trying to make huge orders with them at one go, I will no longer. Their base shipping price is $6.99 (a dollar less than it used to be, which is helpful IF I need a smaller order), and there is a $2 discount if my order is over $100. $4.99 down from $6.99 is no incentive at all unless my order is already $95

I have been in business in poor economy, it is HELL and I understand that. I also understand the need to raise prices. I do not, however, think it's a great idea to take away something that customers expect. For instance, if I go into a favorite restaurant and suddenly receive a smaller portion for the same price, I am going to be P.O.'d and may not come back. However, if that same place raised their prices maybe 5% across the board, I would say.. "ahh, inflation" and enjoy my curry.

 

[Stauffbier]

However, if that same place raised their prices maybe 5% across the board, I would say.. "ahh, inflation" and enjoy my curry.

5% of $100.00 is $5.00! I guess i don't understand why it should matter if they raise the price of shipping vs. raising the price of their products. At the end of the order I'm paying an extra $5.00 either way, and increasing the cost of product by 5% means if I order $300.00 worth of stuff my order would cost an additional $15.00! I'll take the $5.00 shipping charge instead, thanks!

 

[wailingguitar]

5% of $100.00 is $5.00! I guess i don't understand why it should matter if they raise the price of shipping vs. raising the price of their products. At the end of the order I'm paying an extra $5.00 either way, and increasing the cost of product by 5% means if I order $300.00 worth of stuff my order would cost an additional $15.00! I'll take the $5.00 shipping charge instead, thanks!

Right, but it also means that I will shop my business around and may not be giving them all of my order, or making large orders even if I do.

90%+ of business and marketing is customer perception. Take away something that a customer expects, the customer begins to look elsewhere. Bad idea.

 

[DHUKILL]

I've done the math many times on the "free shipping" deal. I don't believe in Santa Claus and also am smart enough to know that any free shipping cost has to be built into the prices of the products I'm buying. I've ordered from most of the major online stores and to me Rebel is the best. Reasonable prices, no free shipping games and the best thing is that most orders ship the same day.

 

[eastoak]

5% of $100.00 is $5.00! I guess i don't understand why it should matter if they raise the price of shipping vs. raising the price of their products. At the end of the order I'm paying an extra $5.00 either way, and increasing the cost of product by 5% means if I order $300.00 worth of stuff my order would cost an additional $15.00! I'll take the $5.00 shipping charge instead, thanks!

makes sense, but not to people who feel that AHS should do what THEY think AHS should do. it's one thing to discuss a price increase it's another to get all in a huff about how (insert vendor) should do this or that to save THEM money. crazy.

 

[kellanv]

AHS is not your business. Let them crash if thats what they end up doing as a result of this "horrific" policy change. Dont buy from them if you feel they are unfair but this thread as a whole seems overblown and a bit ridiculous.

People tend to spend quite large sums of money on making the best beer possible for the only metric in buying decisions to be which is cheapest...

AHS has always had decent service and high quality ingredients. Are they perfect? No but no company is. Let them do what they need to do. They are the only ones that have to live with their decisions!

 

[MalFet]

The complainiest complainers seem to be the ones complaining about all the other complainers. And now, here I am complaining about the complainers complaining about complaining. When will the complaint complaint complaining stop? God save us all.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

Forrest, perhaps return to your marketing style of "don't decide based on per unit price or shipping price, but rather total order price shipped to your door when deciding what online store to use"?

Assuming AHS is still rather competitive in that arena (and they always have been for me), that's probably more effective than telling us you lose money on shipping and fuel costs are raising prices further.

1. We know
2. We largely don't care
3. We are largely looking to get the best bang for our buck

So, I only care what order X costs to get to me, either from store Y, Z, or A. I don't care what each item costs or what shipping "costs," I care about my bottom line, promptness, quality ingredients, and customer service.

don't decide based on per unit price or shipping price, but rather total order price shipped to your door when deciding what online store to use.

Forrest

 

[g-star]

Just another reason to support your LHBS...

 

[Austinhomebrew]

I've done the math many times on the "free shipping" deal. I don't believe in Santa Claus and also am smart enough to know that any free shipping cost has to be built into the prices of the products I'm buying. I've ordered from most of the major online stores and to me Rebel is the best. Reasonable prices, no free shipping games and the best thing is that most orders ship the same day.

The free shipping on orders of $100 was not worked into the pric, we just took less margin. We did not raise prices when we did that vs. $7.99 flat for everything.

Is there another store that charges $4.99 or less for shipping on orders over $100 for everything on their website? That would be good to know.

For over 80% of our customers this change is a reduction in shipping charges by a dollar. We tried the free shipping over $100 and most didn't go for it. Just compare your total order when shopping (don't forget to include taxes and gas when shopping at your local store or other internet stores' shipping charges) and buy where you get the best deal.

Forrest

 

[DoubleAught]

It's always the disgruntled minority that get the loudest voice.

Forrest, I'm sure us majority are thankful for you saving us the dollar on shipping. I seldom order over $100 at a time, so thank you for that.

 

[dford]

Forrest, I'm sure us majority are thankful for you saving us the dollar on shipping. I seldom order over $100 at a time, so thank you for that.

I agree !!! I've placed 12 orders with AHS and only two of those were over $100

 

[TheMan]

As always, I don't know why forrest tries to explain his business practices...doubters will doubt what is built into what or not. I don't order much online, but ahs has never disappointed when I've used them.

Anyone that thinks spending more just for "free" shipping is really just fooling themselves anyway. $7 is a great deal no matter where you order, homebrew supply or not.

 

[Dan]

I've never bought from AHS but if I did a few extra dollars for shipping would be nothing to me because if a few dollars was going to break the bank, I probably shouldn't be brewing.

To Forrerst: Nothing but respect for you. Clearly, you provide great service and quality products. Hope nothing but the best for you and your company.

 

[phoenixs4r]

It always makes me laugh when people get so upset about something so stupid. If it infuriates you so much, don't shop there posting on a forum about it is getting you no where.

Zomg I'll complain on HBT and they change it back to the way it used to be.

Not gonna happen. Can't hang? Go somewhere else.

I hate morebeer. Do I make a huge issue about it? Nope, I write a bad review in the proper section and I STOP GIVING THEM MY BUSINESS.

 

[bob1852]

The funniest is the EAC attitude on this forum towards on line vendors. HBT is a big forum, but I'd bet it's less than 1% of the homebrew market share in the U.S.

 

[Sheldon]

the convenience of on line ordering can't compare to having to get in the car and drive (for me) 30 minutes each way, plus taxes. Austin Home Brew has always been great to deal with. I can now not feel guilty having to build an order for over $100 and place orders for $30 or more to fill in with the things I need. +1 for actually lowering your shipping costs to the majority of your people out here in home brew land.

Sheldon

 

[zeg]

It's probably worth pointing out that any flat rate shipping is an incentive to build larger orders. This is still mostly true with a tiered rate. Sure, there's less incentive to put an order over the threshold, but you still get a much better deal on shipping one $100 order than you do on two $50 orders.

And, while I appreciate Forrest's presence in this discussion, I don't buy the claim that the shipping fee is covered solely through reduced margins. That doesn't wash with my price comparisons, where I've found that the total shipped prices of several major names are essentially identical. Maybe I'm putting together unusual combinations (and I'm not ordering cheap, heavy bottles, which would skew the numbers), but no retailer is out doing business as a charity endeavor. One way or another they have to make money to stay in business.

 

[homebrewdad]

So, going from $6.99 down to $4.99 doesn't help you want to get to $100?

Not really. Saving $8 on shipping (the old $7.99 flat rate) was a decent incentive. Saving $2 ($4.99 vs $6.99) is the price of a bag of pellet hops. Nice if I hit it, but not worth fooling with, IMO.


Also, I have to agree with another poster who pointed out that the only real complaints on this thread is by those who are complaining that we dare discuss this subject. Not. One. Person. - in ten plus pages - has claimed this was an unfair or uncalled for increase. Of all the posters, I believe that exactly two stated it was enough to get them to buy elsewhere.

It's a discussion forum. We are discussing. The only flaming is coming from you "OMG DON'T TALK ABOUT THAT" posters.

 

[Fennis]

I don't see how this is a big deal at all. If you are so concerned with a marginal shipping charge, go ahead and try to find somewhere else that offers cheaper shipping without rising the price of their products to compensate. Or go ahead and buy from your LHBS, but unless you live next to one, I would almost guarantee you will spend $5 in gas, taxes, and higher prices at a local store. I am so sorry that a business attempting to keep their costs balanced so they can balance lower prices with a decent profit upsets you. Welcome to learning how to run a business. I for one will continue to buy from AHS as throughout this post its quite clear they are upfront and honest about their reasoning. I don't see anything wrong with their move.

 

[MalFet]

Running tally for this thread:

People who claim AHS did something unjust - ~0
People defending AHS against people who claim AHS did something unjust - ~15

We seem to spend a lot of time getting indignant about people getting indignant around here.

 

[rico567]

Given the helpful information in the previous post by "Mal Fet," I think we can all take the good advice given by Forrest several pages back in this thread; this is basically what I do. Then we can all move on.....

don't decide based on per unit price or shipping price, but rather total order price shipped to your door when deciding what online store to use.

Forrest

 

[Stauffbier]

Given the helpful information in the previous post by "Mal Fet," I think we can all take the good advice given by Forrest several pages back in this thread; this is basically what I do. Then we can all move on.....

This is what I've always done and will continue to do. Sometimes I order from Austin and sometimes I don't. I'm sure that won't change...

 

[befus]

I wonder how many of us spend an hour and a half, or more, entering ingredients and supplies on various online brew stores in order to save three dollars on a $75 order? Is your time really worth that little? I am guilty of it too. Unless there is some really good reason to the contrary (bottles, etc. that some sites really jack up shipping on, sales, etc.), if you are happy with the service/quality of a supplier it makes sense to give them your business without all the rigamarole. IMHO.

 

[Homercidal]

I don't care about prices or shipping. I just want cartoons drawn on my boxes!

 

[homebrewdad]

Running tally for this thread:

People who claim AHS did something unjust - ~0
People defending AHS against people who claim AHS did something unjust - ~15

We seem to spend a lot of time getting indignant about people getting indignant around here.

Psh. There you go, using something stupid like FACTS to back up a discussion point. Quick, cue the next "OMG IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD $5 FOR SHIPPING GTFO LOSERS" post.


Reading comprehension: apparently not a required skill for brewing one's own beer.

 

[pwndabear]

I am just hearing about this. I used to time my orders so I would get over $100 in price so I would get the free shipping. Sometimes, this would be a huge PITA. Now, i dont have to worry about it so I can order ingredients more frequently.

I am ok with this charge as I really am an avid supporter of AHB and this wont make me stop shopping exclusively though them.

 

[zeg]

I would almost guarantee you will spend $5 in gas, taxes, and higher prices at a local store.

Taxes? We are all complying with state law and paying our use tax on out-of-state catalog purchases, right?

 

[homebrewdad]

Taxes? We are all complying with state law and paying our use tax on out-of-state catalog purchases, right?

Why, of course we are. Everyone does. **shifty eyes**

 

[modernlifeisANDY]

I completely understand the need for the shipping cost increase. The part that really has me interested is the $1 drop in shipping on most orders. I had actually switched from AHS to BMW for my ingredients because their flat rate shipping was a buck cheaper and it ended up costing me less per batch by a buck or two for the same speedy shipping.

I'll likely go back to AHS now that there is more incentive to order from them.

*edit*
Although, checking the per-recipe cost, even with the drop in small order shipping cost, it is still at least $2 cheaper ordering from BMW.

 

[eastoak]

Hang on. I love you guys, and I have sung your praises to anyone that would listen, but this statement does not hold water.

$15 per box? So a starter kit costs you guys $30 to ship (two boxes), even though you only charge $7 on it?

My last order was for a recipe plus some bottles. It also came in two boxes. I don't think that UPS would have charged me $30 to ship it, and I don't get the discount that a volume business does.

i stopped using them a while ago - even with the free shipping, i can get most everything else cheaper (elsewhere) and pay for shipping...

First off, I pretty much hate AHB. I think their prices are high and that Forrest has a "love it or leave it" attitude that I cant stand. I'm not saying that a business such as his doesnt have a bottom line, which I understand, but when I sent him an email addressing my concerns he didnt seem to give a ****. I refuse to purchase ANYTHING from AHS. Hell, I'd have a problem looting their store after the apocalypse just based on general principle...

...HOWEVER, based on my experience shipping a couple things for buyers on CL, I'd say that 30 bones for 2 boxes of stuff, depending on weight and dimension of course, is probably in the ballpark.

So yes, I'm backing up AHS on this one. While the shipping on your 2 boxes MAY NOT have cost Forrest excatly $30 (remember that Forrest said "on average") I'd still wager a months pay that you got a darn good deal on your shipping.

Again, I all but hate AHS, but I wont let my bias stand in the way of the facts.

I don't see how you can make a blanket claim like that. Certainly, a store could opt to charge full shipping with lower prices to keep profit margins the same. I understand that you're saying customer psychology doesn't work like that, but there are at least some of us who would prefer a simpler price structure when buying online. I'm not surprised that subsidized shipping has become the standard...I just wish it hadn't.

Forrest, perhaps return to your marketing style of "don't decide based on per unit price or shipping price, but rather total order price shipped to your door when deciding what online store to use"?

Assuming AHS is still rather competitive in that arena (and they always have been for me), that's probably more effective than telling us you lose money on shipping and fuel costs are raising prices further.

1. We know
2. We largely don't care
3. We are largely looking to get the best bang for our buck

So, I only care what order X costs to get to me, either from store Y, Z, or A. I don't care what each item costs or what shipping "costs," I care about my bottom line, promptness, quality ingredients, and customer service.

And raising shipping isn't raising prices?!

It is definitely a game changer. Where I had been ordering with them exclusively, I will now shop around and split my orders up. Where I was trying to make huge orders with them at one go, I will no longer. Their base shipping price is $6.99 (a dollar less than it used to be, which is helpful IF I need a smaller order), and there is a $2 discount if my order is over $100. $4.99 down from $6.99 is no incentive at all unless my order is already $95

I have been in business in poor economy, it is HELL and I understand that. I also understand the need to raise prices. I do not, however, think it's a great idea to take away something that customers expect. For instance, if I go into a favorite restaurant and suddenly receive a smaller portion for the same price, I am going to be P.O.'d and may not come back. However, if that same place raised their prices maybe 5% across the board, I would say.. "ahh, inflation" and enjoy my curry.

Right, but it also means that I will shop my business around and may not be giving them all of my order, or making large orders even if I do.

90%+ of business and marketing is customer perception. Take away something that a customer expects, the customer begins to look elsewhere. Bad idea.

It's probably worth pointing out that any flat rate shipping is an incentive to build larger orders. This is still mostly true with a tiered rate. Sure, there's less incentive to put an order over the threshold, but you still get a much better deal on shipping one $100 order than you do on two $50 orders.

And, while I appreciate Forrest's presence in this discussion, I don't buy the claim that the shipping fee is covered solely through reduced margins. That doesn't wash with my price comparisons, where I've found that the total shipped prices of several major names are essentially identical. Maybe I'm putting together unusual combinations (and I'm not ordering cheap, heavy bottles, which would skew the numbers), but no retailer is out doing business as a charity endeavor. One way or another they have to make money to stay in business.

Running tally for this thread:

People who claim AHS did something unjust - ~0
People defending AHS against people who claim AHS did something unjust - ~15

We seem to spend a lot of time getting indignant about people getting indignant around here.

i didn't bother to count but it's more than 0.

 

[MalFet]

i didn't bother to count but it's more than 0.

You evidently have a very delicate sense of "unjust". If this counts as "complaining" or "getting into a huff", I suspect you have never worked in retail.

Just out of curiosity, did you notice that half of the posts you just quoted are actually supporting the rise in shipping prices? Sheesh.

 

[mredge73]

Unfortunately, the state of TX thinks that AHS is my LHBS.
So now I have to pay taxes as well as shipping; shame that it is cheaper to order out of state but AHS cannot do anything about this gripe.

Now my tax+shipping cost is pretty much in line with Midwest's shipping charge.
For AHS to receive my repeat business they will need to meet or exceed Midwest's selection, service, and website presentation while staying competitive in pricing.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

It's probably worth pointing out that any flat rate shipping is an incentive to build larger orders. This is still mostly true with a tiered rate. Sure, there's less incentive to put an order over the threshold, but you still get a much better deal on shipping one $100 order than you do on two $50 orders.

And, while I appreciate Forrest's presence in this discussion, I don't buy the claim that the shipping fee is covered solely through reduced margins. That doesn't wash with my price comparisons, where I've found that the total shipped prices of several major names are essentially identical. Maybe I'm putting together unusual combinations (and I'm not ordering cheap, heavy bottles, which would skew the numbers), but no retailer is out doing business as a charity endeavor. One way or another they have to make money to stay in business.

While a store that charges full shipping can just raise the shipping charges and no one will notice, We can't so UPS raises their rates 5% every year and fuel charges go up but we have to keep our prices competitive and we can't raise the shipping rate. So, we lose margin. Different stores have different margins. Walmart 3.6% margin, Target 4.2% margin. Walmart is not making the margin up on you.

It is all good. I am in this business to keep a whole lot of people employed and to try my best to get you the best deal on your supplies. That is what makes me happy. A homebrew store is not a career path if you want to bring home the bank. Thanks again for your support. Contact me anytime at [email protected]. Keep in mind that the best way to contact me or the store is to contact me or the store.

Forrest

Forrest

 

[bob1852]

You evidently have a very delicate sense of "unjust". If this counts as "complaining" or "getting into a huff", I suspect you have never worked in retail.

Just out of curiosity, did you notice that half of the posts you just quoted are actually supporting the rise in shipping prices? Sheesh.

Yeah, not sure why he quoted me.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

Unfortunately, the state of TX thinks that AHS is my LHBS.
So now I have to pay taxes as well as shipping; shame that it is cheaper to order out of state but AHS cannot do anything about this gripe.

Now my tax+shipping cost is pretty much in line with Midwest's shipping charge.
For AHS to receive my repeat business they will need to meet or exceed Midwest's selection, service, and website presentation while staying competitive in pricing.

What should I carry that you would like me to carry? I am willing to try any product too see if it sells.

How should we tackle the problem of tax on your orders? I have to charge tax but I could give a 5% discount for cash. I don't know how close you are to the store.

Help me help you.

Forrest

 

[abarhan]

Shipping is crazy these days. I don't blame them, I own a retail store with a website and we get killed on the shipping. UPS/Fedex has surcharges for everything(Residential, fuel, extended delivery, rural extended) its crazy. In the grand scheme of things they still offer pretty decent rates for shipping for a "small" store. I will still order and pay for shipping from them, always great selection and fast shipments. If you are opposed to the shipping shop at your LHBS or suck it up. You pay more for parking downtown than you do to ship your brewing goodies.

 

[homebrewdad]

i didn't bother to count but it's more than 0.

You quoted me in there. I was dubious at the original claim that AHS eats $15 per box. Once I read their response - and the responses of other posters - you will notice that I stated that "$5 was not enough of an increase".


jtakacs said that he had already stopped using them, as he felt he could get things cheaper elsewhere. Not a complaint, not whining.


BBKing said that he hated AHS for a different issue, but that they were right on this one.


MalFet made a comment about subsidizing shipping with margins. Not whining, stating a personal preference that he'd rather be charged actual shipping in exchange for lower margins.


AZ_IPA said nothing at all negative; was in fact supportive of AHS.


anengineer asked a legitimate question - isn't raising shipping the same as raising prices?


wailingguitar shared an opinion that basically said he'd rather AHS raise prices across the boar and keep free shipping. He then shared the opinion that taking away an incentive was a bad business move.


zeg was dubious as to how margins were figured, and shared that he'd found some items cheaper elsewhere. He also stated that he understood businesses exist to make money.


One thing in common? Adults sharing opinions, examining facts. It's called a discussion. Not one person cited claimed AHS had done something unjust. Dude, you fail at reading comprehension.