Any English Aficionados?

[freisste]

I tried my hand at an ESB recently and it was fantastic. That's saying something considering I'm generally not that into English beers. Im not sure if it's just that it's been a while since I had one, but something about it was captivating. Also, a colleague who just moved here from England really liked it. We talked a bit and out of the blue he dropped off a book about English beers. Little history, lots of recipes. (He also mentioned Timothy Taylor Landlord is his favorite beer.)

So I'm looking to make something pretty close, even if not a clone. However, the book only lists "pale malt," "crystal malt," and "black malt." I planned on using all Maris Otter for the pale (even if, as the book notes, it is unlikely that it is the case...apparently studies have shown that if all breweries who claimed to use it actually did, worldwide production of it would have to increase substantially). However, does anybody have a suggestion for what to use for the black malt? Is it just black malt? Fortunately for this recipe, there is no crystal.

Also, is there a difference between Goldings and Styrian Goldings?

Thanks.

 

[TheMadKing]

I have a degree in English.. What do you need to know?

The black maltster doesn't matter too much since the roast flavor will cover up most subtle differences between them imo.. Just look for 500L black malt. Not roasted barley which is unmalted.

Yes there is a big difference.. You'll want East Kent Goldings (EKG)

Styrian Goldings is actually a misnomer, its a variety of fuggles and is better suited for Belgian beers.

 

[freisste]

I have a degree in English.. What do you need to know?

The black maltster doesn't matter too much since the roast flavor will cover up most subtle differences between them imo.. Just look for 500L black malt. Not roasted barley which is unmalted.

Yes there is a big difference.. You'll want East Kent Goldings (EKG)

Styrian Goldings is actually a misnomer, its a variety of fuggles and is better suited for Belgian beers.

I'm better with the language than I am with the beer (although I think I learned more in a college Latin class than I did in all of high school English...).

Definitely familiar with EKG, which is what I used in the ESB I made.

Recipe actually calls for a combo of Styrian Goldings and Goldings for the bittering addition and then Styrian Goldings again for the finishing (10min) hop addition. This is the clearest, most explicit part of the recipe, so I think I'll follow it.

Thanks for the info on black malt. That was helpful. Im not too worried about this batch because even if I got the wrong black malt, it's only an ounce per the recipe. I think for any beers I try to make in the future from this book, I'll just use a combo of crystal malts to shoot for the target color.

Any thoughts on the pale malt? All MO or a combo with something else grainy (like 6row?)?

For yeast, I'm thinking Wyeast 1968 which did great for me on the ESB. Any cautionary tales against that choice?

Thanks again.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Styrian Goldings and "Goldings" presumably meaning Kent Goldings are certainly very different hops. But they're also both commonly used in English beers, as you can see.

My understanding, Landlord was a base of all Golden Promise, not Maris Otter, likely with some caramel coloring and invert sugar in there. And if you're looking for Landlord, go with 1469 West Yorkshire as that's Timothy Taylor's yeast. However, it'll work for them all.

A good classic Bitter can be had with 93-95% Maris Otter (or other English base malt) and 5-7% English crystal malt. Optionally, and for real authenticity, throw in either invert sugar or flaked maize, again maybe 5-7%. American brewers throw a crap ton of specialty grains in their English beers to get the right "malt" character without realizing that almost across the board, that "malt" character is provided by invert sugar.

 

[freisste]

Awesome info. Thanks!

I'll admit, my ESB had at least 5 crystal malts. Pretty small amounts of each.

I'll definitely try the golden promise and 1469 yeast. Maybe I'll keep some MO as well since I have some on hand.

First question: in your "good classic" description, I'm assuming the 5-7% quantities are either/or correct? You wouldn't use 7% crystal AND 7% invert sugar?

And a basic question: what is invert sugar?

 

[Qhrumphf]

I'd prefer to use both personally. I like 88% Maris Otter, 6% 77L crystal (Crisp), and 6% invert #2 or invert #3 depending on the beer.

Invert is the English version of Belgian candi syrup. Very similar but not identical. Made by boiling a sugar syrup (raw cane sugar for invert) with a little acid to convert dissacharides into monosaccharides. Usually #s 1-4, with 1 being very pale and 4 very very dark.

 

[freisste]

Awesome. Thanks.

 

[freisste]

Meant to ask: will the invert sugar dry out the beer much?

 

[cpaine]

Gordon Strong has a recipe based on Timothy Taylor's Landlord in his book 'Modern Homebrew Recipes' which I quite enjoyed

Batch Size: 6.5 gallons (25L)
OG: 1041
FG: 1010
Efficiency: 70%
ABV: 4.1%


10 lb (4.5 kg) Golden Promise
3 oz (85 g) Black Malt

1.8 oz (51 g) UK Goldings 5.9% AA @ 60
1 oz (28 g) Styrian Goldings 2.1% AA @ 10
1 oz (28 g) Styrian Goldings 2.1% AA @ 0 (40 minute steep)

Wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire Ale yeast

 

[Stillraining]

FWIW this might help if you want to make it and some of the info presented is relevant to brewing as well.

http://www.chefeddy.com/2009/11/invert-sugar/

 

[freisste]

Thanks cpaine and stillraining.

 

[Qhrumphf]

That's the general idea for invert from a culinary perspective, which is different from a Belgian syrup or an English syrup. Important in this application to not use corn syrup or refined sugar. Won't have the proper flavor.

 

[Qhrumphf]

And yes. Invert will dry the beer out. That's the point.