another P.i.d. wiring question

[monkeybuttbrewing]

PID question. Watlow 93aa wiring is giving me issues their manual isn't exactly setup for a carpenter to read, but for an engineer. I would rather ask than smoke the controller.
there isnt much here on watlow p.i.d.s and what was here didn't help much.

going out of the watlow into an omega ssr then to the heating element does anyone actually have leigh terminology of where I connect the post? and unit is running at 110v.

website for their manual http://www.watlow.com/downloads/en/manuals/93e_e_.pdf

ok 4 sensor should actually read 5 on the pid unit drawing of the diagram

 

[stlbeer]

Ok, I'll give this a go.

First, a 52 page manual is awesome. Auber's are only 6-8 pages.

I'm going to assume you have the high voltage model (100-240v).

I'm also going to assume you have a thermocouple for a sensor since you mentioned using terminals 3 and 5.

Since you're using an SSR, I believe figure 2.7a to be correct for your use. If so, PID terminal 9 is the positive (+) and terminal 10 is the negative (-). These need to be connected correctly to the SSR for it to work. So run a wire be between the (+) on the PID to the terminal on the SSR marked with a (+). I think it's 3 for Omega. Then run a wire from the (-) on the PID to the (-) on the SSR. I think it's 4 for Omega.

It looks like Omega SSR's have pilot lights. If so now's a good time to connect the temp sensor, configure the SSR, and test it's operation. When the light is on, the contact in the SSR is closed. You cannot use a multimeter to check the voltage here because SSR's leak voltage. They need a load attached to make the voltage detection work properly. If you like, add a load, like a desk lamp to the circuit. The hot wire would run from the wall to terminal 1 of the SSR then from terminal 2 of the SSR to the lamp. The neutral runs from the wall to the lamp. You're only switching the hot line.

In the case of your heating element. You say you are using 110v, but you have only 1 SSR so you are going to switch the hot (black) leg through the SSR, then it goes to your element (either side, it doesn't matter). The neutral goes directly from your 110v source to the element.

In my opinion, the better option at this point, and you should review the control panels documented here, I think you would be well served to place a mechanical relay between the SSR and your element. This is a safety item since when most SSR's quit working they fil with the circuit closed. Having a mechanical relay between the SSR and the element will allow you to cut the power to the element without shutting down you whole controller. Like I said, it's a safety matter and you seriously think about adding one to your circuit.

Set the PID set point value to 85*F. If you've configured it correctly then when the power is connected it should display the current room temp. With the set value higher than the room temp then the output 1 should be lit up as well as the SSR lit up since you are asking for heat. Put the temp sensor in your hand and close your hand around it. As the sensor heats up the process value will change. When it gets to be a degree or 2 above 85 the output 1 light should be flashing or out (depends on how it's programmed).

This ought to be enough to get you started. You should read the manual and become familiar with your PID's operation. That's a nice device you have.

Personally I say go with Auber since most people on this forum use that and it's easy to get help.

Good luck and keep us posted with your results.
Paul

 

[monkeybuttbrewing]

actually I have 2 ssr's . I got the rig unfinished, the electric wasnt finished and the pid's and the ssr's came with it
I am currently redoing most of the plumbing on the rig as well.
2 pids, 2 ssr's: one pid and ssr I assumed for for the silicon band heater on the 130 qt fermenter.
here is the omega relay #3 appears to be dc voltage and thanks for the help

 

[stlbeer]

Note that the SSR in the picture is only 10 amps. What's the largest load you plan to use for that? Most folks use a 25amp SSR for 110v loads.

 

[monkeybuttbrewing]

that is the 10 amp for the fermenter, the one for the heater is 25 amps

 

[stlbeer]

Got it. How's the wiring going? Making any progress?

 

[monkeybuttbrewing]

doing bids atm will go pick up a shutoff in a biit then wire it all up

 

[monkeybuttbrewing]

so just because, it is time for more bad drawings just to make sure before I turn it on ok pardon the hideous drawing but does this look about right?

 

[stlbeer]

Looking at the drawing and double checking with the PID manual, that looks right.

Here's the drawing for my RIMS system. Ignore the PID (marked HLT) since it's a different model, but the concept is the same. I have pilot lights on mine so I can confirm if the outlet is hot and I have a safety interlock on the element so I can't be hot unless the pump switch is on. This has prevented me from dry firing the element on a couple of occasions.

In my drawing red is HOT, yellow is NEUTRAL, green is GROUND, and black is control circuit.

Another thing you'll note in my drawing is a lack of a mechanical relay. That is a safety flaw and I do not currently build RIMS controllers without a relay.

Remember, my advice is as good as what you paid for it. Make sure you use a GFCI protected source of electricity.

 

[monkeybuttbrewing]

I am, my box the heater and the pump are on a switched recepticle and the tc also has a plugin so my control box is removable for easier cleaning of the stand w/o the worry of getting anything wet.. should have new pics by the end of the week when i get all of plumbing and control unit all done cheers and thanks a bunch

 

[audger]

nvm im dumb

but this might be a better version of your picture

 

[monkeybuttbrewing]

it is a beautiful thing thanks much, now I am studying the manual from hell, trying to get it tuned

 

[stlbeer]

I think you'll figure it out. It's going to heat (this PID can handle both heating and cooling) - think output 1.

Start with chapter 4. Some basic items - set your sensor type, set *F or *C. Read the words! Skimming over the definition of the items won't do.

Autotuning is in chapter 5. Then calibrate the unit to your sensor - Appendix A.

Nice glossary in the back too.

Let us know how it goes for you!

paul

 

[monkeybuttbrewing]

oh, I have been going through them with the control box on my desk over and over and over.

 

[monkeybuttbrewing]

nvm im dumb

but this might be a better version of your picture

on the inital legend on the pic 9 said it was not used did i miss something?

 

[monkeybuttbrewing]

Looking at the drawing and double checking with the PID manual, that looks right.

Here's the drawing for my RIMS system. Ignore the PID (marked HLT) since it's a different model, but the concept is the same. I have pilot lights on mine so I can confirm if the outlet is hot and I have a safety interlock on the element so I can't be hot unless the pump switch is on. This has prevented me from dry firing the element on a couple of occasions.

In my drawing red is HOT, yellow is NEUTRAL, green is GROUND, and black is control circuit.

Another thing you'll note in my drawing is a lack of a mechanical relay. That is a safety flaw and I do not currently build RIMS controllers without a relay.

Remember, my advice is as good as what you paid for it. Make sure you use a GFCI protected source of electricity.

In your drawing u have 110v lamps? I have had an issue after adding lamps. and your drawing just helped me figure it out, off to check

 

[monkeybuttbrewing]

finally got it working now tomorrow i can finish the plumbing (part of which is a thermalwell as opposed to hard lined into the pot) and test the system.. dont laugh too hard, it works!! ish..... that is what is important
I need to adjust the on/off cycle which default is 1 second I think and I switched out the heating element he had in there (no clue what voltage or wattage it was but, it was big bulky, nasty and dirty as hell when I pulled it out of the tube) for a 1500 watt ss one from home depot 9 bucks what a deal

what the system looked like before https://www.homebrewtalk.com/members/monkeybuttbrewing/albums/daddy-s-new-toy/
I will post new ones after I get all the plumbing done

 

[thereferee2]

that element from home depot is not SS it is copper-zinc chromate. not a good choice. you can get this Rheem UV12904 Element 240V/4500W Stainless Steel on amazon for around $18 run it on 115 volts and you get nice low wattage that won't scorch your wort.

 

[monkeybuttbrewing]

I have actually gone to http://www.ogdenmfg.com/process.htm to get the heater that is installed in the sytem now is 2k watt /120 v heater and got rid of the home depot ss 1500 watt.... on a side note ogden has very nice sales and tech support people, very helpfull.

 

[stlbeer]

Glad to see you figured it out. It looks real nice.

 

[monkeybuttbrewing]

it looks ghetto, but thanks it does work. tested it last weekend and just got the element so will water test it all and check pid this weekend

those little 6x6x6 boxes are a p.i.t.a. made plexi slide in mounting plates for everything :/