Amylase? Mash or fermentation?

[user 144938]

Hi,

I would like to know about the use of amylase, I saw this enzyme at a brewing supplies store and I found that could be used for breaking remaining carbohydrates at the fermentation adding alcohol and dryer finish.

Could this amylase be used in the mash?

Does anyone know?

Have you used it? Would you recommend it?

in fermentation? in the mash?

Thank you for your comments.

Odinn.

 

[UnDeadPresident]

Amylase is already utilized in the mash (kind of the whole point of it, actually) since it, or rather, they are provided by your base malts. There are 2 types: Alpha and Beta, which work best at slightly different temperatures. Alpha, which works best at ~158F, breaks down the longer starch chains into smaller pieces at random, allowing for more dextrins (fuller body) and longer sugar chains (sweeter taste/finish) that yeast either don't break down, or break down last. Beta on the other hand works best between 140F and 149F and breaks down the starch chains into sugars that the yeast will more readily break down. Beta is what you want to be more active during your mash if you want a dryer/higher ABV beer. You can do this by mashing at a temperature that is best suited to Beta Amylase, but if the temperature isn't in the zone (along with pH, which I have purposely left out since it would just complicate this even further) then I'm not sure it help out much if you just add even more since they aren't "used up" when they break down the starch, just denatured once they eventually go into the boil.

As for adding it to the fermentation, the efficacy of the Amylases at fermentation temperatures appears to be exceptionally low or nil according to the literature I could find.

The wiki here actually has a pretty good write up on mashing and enzymes: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/The_Theory_of_Mashing

Hope this helps. Cheers!

 

[Talgrath]

Usually the only reason to add extra amylase is if your fermentation is stuck and you believe the cause is unfermented sugars or if you wanted an extra super dry beer; but even then it's not terribly effective.

 

[user 144938]

Thank you for your information UnDeadPresident, I already knew all this information, I'm actually a Pharmaceutical Biological Chemist, but I appreciate you taking the time for reading my thread and giving such a good answer. On the other hand, Talgrath, I appreciate your sharing as well. I was exactly trying to find answers or commentaries on actual experiences such as yours. Thank you very much.

What do you guys think about the following? In my experience and since I do not have a cooler as a mash tun or any more specialized equipment than a big bucket with isolating material on the outside, I have realized that my efficiency is very low, let's say around 60%, compared with the 70-75% than some books and programs give as "the usual". Because of these factors, I was thinking about adding amylase to the mash tun when doing the mash with the only purpose of increasing my efficiency and obtaining better OG after the mash and before boiling.

I think this could help in this process, and I would like to know with your experience and knowledge what do you think?

Thank you again for taking the time to read and answer.

 

[dannyhawkins]

You already have enough amylase enzymes in the mash. You will not increase efficiency by adding more enzymes. You should look at a way to "rinse" or remove more sugars from the grain. You could dunk the grain in water or pour water over the grains to increase efficiency.
If you have not already tried it you could look into brew in a bag methods (BIAB) to get some more ideas.

 

[ncbrewer]

You could check braukaiser.com - there is a good analysis of batch sparging, including how to determine your conversion efficiency from the gravity of the first runnings. This way you can separate conversion efficiency from lautering efficiency. If you are getting low conversion efficiency, the problem is likely to be the crush.

 

[helibrewer]

Conversion in the mash is not enzyme limited if you are using primarily malted barley. The factors are: crush, time, temp, pH and to an extent mash thickness.

Crush: The hull should be split and the endosperm broken into several pieces.
Time: Long enough for the enzymes to work, 30-60 minutes at the proper temp.
Temp: You must get to at least the gelatinization temp for several minutes (149F) then hold between 149-152 to favor B-amylase, or 152-156 to favor A-amylase.
pH: 5.3-5.5
Mash thickness: 1.25 to 1.5 qts of water per pound of grain.

If all of these parameters are good, then your efficiency degradation is due to lautering problems...you are not getting a good grain rinse, either because of a poor grain bed, or inadequate rinsing (sparge).

 

[Talgrath]

Unfortunately, there are no quick fixes for low efficiency, if that is your issue. I suggest you start here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/maximizing-efficiency-when-batch-sparging-77125/

 

[user 144938]

Hey guys, Thank you for all the comments and sharing! I will have a look at all the links that you sent, I'm really interested about increasing my efficiency.

Thank you all!!!