Yes I do. He wasn't at my house when this happened, but I called him immediately when I saw it. Ok, well after I took the picture of it I called! He wasn't to thrilled to hear about it. I don't have any resources for this type of work so I hired him from angieslist based on all the positive reviews.
Am I over-reacting? Safety issue..
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Yes I do. He wasn't at my house when this happened, but I called him immediately when I saw it. Ok, well after I took the picture of it I called! He wasn't to thrilled to hear about it. I don't have any resources for this type of work so I hired him from angieslist based on all the positive reviews.
whoaru99 said:
To me this sounds highly possible. I'm a carpenter and a lot of times we've been known to risk our own well being to keep o job on schedule and make sure the customer is happy. With that being said I always carry extra cord ends just in case.
While I know where you're coming from (crew I used to work for, we put ourselves at risk because the boss was too cheap to buy the 'right' equipment), even if they didn't have spare cord ends, unless you live out in the boonies, I'm not sure a place exists where it'd take more than 15-20 minutes to run get another cord - and the rest of the crew could be working on other jobs in the meantime.
The more I look back at it the more I think it is an overreaction.
The worst that' going to happen is the wires are going to fall out of the receptacle.
Is it "professional"? No, of course not. Nor, however, do I think it constitutes any impending doom.
The worst that' going to happen is the wires are going to fall out of the receptacle.
Is it "professional"? No, of course not. Nor, however, do I think it constitutes any impending doom.
Well, the worst that can happen is a poor connection which arcs and heats up and starts a fire, but that would be fairly unlikely, truthfully.
This reminds me of when I had the apartment over my garage done. The floor guys appeared with a 220V sander and asked me where my electrical panel was. I asked them why they wanted that and they said they had to connect the sander holding up the end of a long extension cord with two bare wires (or maybe 3 - don't remember). I said 'let me put a plug on that for you - and be sure you take it back off when you leave' but the situation is interesting. They do work at lots of houses most of which don't have any 220V outlets (unless there is one for the clothes dryer) so they just hook into a couple of breakers (or one 2 pole breaker) in the panel. Kosher? I really don't know. It gets the job done though.
gratus fermentatio
Well-Known Member
The worst that can happen is that the contractor is sloppy, too sloppy to keep up his insurance payments. If you don't have a copy of his current insurance contract, both liability and worker's compensation, verified with the insurance company, then you might have a BIG problem with workers that bad. I know, it's just a small job, but a contractor that doesn't promote safety for his workers is a greater liability than you can afford.
The three things you ask a contractor to show you before signing any contract:
License
Bond
Proof of Insurance
It still doesn't guarantee they will do good work, but at least you have protection from liability if they screw up somehow.
License
Bond
Proof of Insurance
It still doesn't guarantee they will do good work, but at least you have protection from liability if they screw up somehow.
oogaboogachiefwalkingdeer
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I see a lot of office worker posting here. Not a big deal at all in the every day out door work world. It is the same thing as a plug in. No more risk than a plug. Way over acted.
Yeah, I'm an office worker.
But I'm a former construction worker, a volunteer fireman, and educated (granted, not certified in, but educated in) agricultural wiring.
And I'm sorry, but you're dead wrong on the "No more risk than a plug". A proper plug 100% blocks the chance of accidentally contacting the conductors - either with human flesh or, say the end of a tape measure. The bare-wire-stuck-in-an-outlet is a shock hazard and a fire hazard.
"It's the same thing as a plug"...until those frayed wire ends begin to lose contact inside that outlet, create a high resistance point and start getting hot.
BTW, I am also an "office worker" (attorney). But my undergraduate is EE, and I had worked over 10 years in engineering.
Be careful with the broad generalizations here. There have been a lot of good responses in this thread from people who probably know more than you're willing to give them credit for.
Since they are subcontractors keep an open line of communication with your GC. If they were this halfassed about everything and walked off tell them that you really do not want them coming back. It may take longer but they will find a different sub that will do the job right. Just remember, it is your home. Do not settle for anything but it being done right. If you do it will just mean more problems a little farther down the road
hillbillyjones
Well-Known Member
The thing is that if one of them gets hurt, it's a good chance they'll sue you or put some kind of lien on your property. It's a complicated mess where the no doubt liberal laws allow for shenanigans on the part of the workers.
If someone representing themselves as Pedro's Home Improvement is laying some tile for you and they get shocked because of that plug job and it costs them all sorts of medical expenses, lost of labor and pain and suffering...then it should be really on them. They're their own business after all. Same if they damage your or your neighbor's property. But that's not the way the law is, and it can be different from state to state.
The onus is on the homeowner to see the "business's" worker's compensation and liability insurance, verify with the company that the insurance is up to date and actually has coverage for things. The homeowner must be sure the worker has a license. They may need a city, county and state business licenses as well as a license for the type of work they do. It'll be up to you to make sure they have the permit if needed. In my opinion, NONE of it should be on the homeowner. What do they know about it? The "pro" should know all about it and it should all be on the "pro". But that's not the way the law is.
Funny thing is... if you live in a garishable state, you could have a scammer "get hurt" so he can't work anymore, doctor shop to support his "injuries", win a fat suit against you, have that income garnished from your wages for a long time, and then he can snag some Social Security Disability, some Medicaid for his health, some HUD for housing, and some food stamps for his groceries, and some WIC for his kids groceries.
Here's some sources and there's plenty more on the web.
http://www.silvar.org/index.cfm/article_11.htm
http://www.plaintiffmagazine.com/Sept12/Viadro_Day-laborers-and-homeowner-liability.pdf
http://www.brewerfirm.com/articles/article-OSHArules.html
If someone representing themselves as Pedro's Home Improvement is laying some tile for you and they get shocked because of that plug job and it costs them all sorts of medical expenses, lost of labor and pain and suffering...then it should be really on them. They're their own business after all. Same if they damage your or your neighbor's property. But that's not the way the law is, and it can be different from state to state.
The onus is on the homeowner to see the "business's" worker's compensation and liability insurance, verify with the company that the insurance is up to date and actually has coverage for things. The homeowner must be sure the worker has a license. They may need a city, county and state business licenses as well as a license for the type of work they do. It'll be up to you to make sure they have the permit if needed. In my opinion, NONE of it should be on the homeowner. What do they know about it? The "pro" should know all about it and it should all be on the "pro". But that's not the way the law is.
Funny thing is... if you live in a garishable state, you could have a scammer "get hurt" so he can't work anymore, doctor shop to support his "injuries", win a fat suit against you, have that income garnished from your wages for a long time, and then he can snag some Social Security Disability, some Medicaid for his health, some HUD for housing, and some food stamps for his groceries, and some WIC for his kids groceries.
Here's some sources and there's plenty more on the web.
http://www.silvar.org/index.cfm/article_11.htm
http://www.plaintiffmagazine.com/Sept12/Viadro_Day-laborers-and-homeowner-liability.pdf
http://www.brewerfirm.com/articles/article-OSHArules.html
That would not fly at the plant. Our E/E dept and safety committee would not allow it. We wouldn't do it in Operations. We require all extension cords and corded power tools to have proper plug ends, no exposed wires and no damaged insulation. It's fine to repair plug ends and replace entire cords power equipment. It has to be done right though.
snowtires
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I hate to mention this but its true, if you want a professional you need to be willing to pay for a professional. Would you go to a non licensed doctor or lawyer or accountant cuz its cheaper? So why are so many looking for the cheapest price when it comes to trades? That's what makes me mad. Being a pro myself getting cut out of work by people who haven't got a clue then seeing people with leaky showers. I don't know what you paid so I'm not saying this was the case. But its easy to complain, a pro tile setter should be making about $30/hour
gratus fermentatio
Well-Known Member
Be sure to post a detailed review on Angie's list.
Regards, GF.
Regards, GF.
While you're at it, post a review on Ripoff Report, too. It'll show up in the first page of Google search results in less than a day.
mpc88
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I think they might know so much about electricity that to dress up wires like companies do to keep customers from flying off the handle would be futile, BUT they are doing it in front of YOU, their customer, instead of in their own confines. I wouldn't deal with them again. I could relate when doing something I'm familiar with that could be viewed as dangerous around outsiders, but this is NOT the case,
Those of you who have never worked in construction shouldn't judge. Some of the "best" contractors around do some pretty dangerous things to get the job done and keep the customer happy.
I've been there I know.
The guys you had working for you just got caught doing the wrong thing at the wrong time. "The language barrier" should have been your first clue that you were gonna have problems. When you can't have a conversation with your sub contractor the odds are you aren't gonna get what you want. Besides that there are plenty of English speaking craftsman out of work that would do a quality job and be happy to do it.
I've been there I know.
The guys you had working for you just got caught doing the wrong thing at the wrong time. "The language barrier" should have been your first clue that you were gonna have problems. When you can't have a conversation with your sub contractor the odds are you aren't gonna get what you want. Besides that there are plenty of English speaking craftsman out of work that would do a quality job and be happy to do it.
Ah, I see, never walked in another man's shoes I suppose. Hmm, lets see, I've never done much serial killing either. Looks like I need to rethink my position on the activities of Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer and their ilk. MAN, I really wish those two were around today so I could give them my heartfelt apology!!!
Please tell me more about these unlicensed doctors and lawyers. Provide links where possible.
mpc88
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Please tell me more about these unlicensed doctors and lawyers. Provide links where possible.
well, there is that doctor from Pennsylvania, who just went to trial from aborting babies without a license,
well, there is that doctor from Pennsylvania, who just went to trial from aborting babies without a license,
Link?
dgr
Well-Known Member
Dollars to donuts the back of the outlet is wired the same way. The chance of that causing a fire is about as likely as the accepted practice of back stabbing the outlets causing a fire.
I just changed a main breaker on a house. Power company could have shut it off remotely. Instead they wanted a service call to shut it off then they wanted the city to inspect it then they would turn the power back on. Hmmmm. Three days without power or get it done.... I had to laugh at the guy I was helping. He said, "But it's 220V." I said, "No, that's one is 110 and this one is 110. Don't touch both of them at the same time and you'll be fine."
gdbrewer,
Sorry if this was mentioned.
You should have got your shower pan hot mopped. It costs me around $300 on the houses I do and lasts pretty much forever. Plus your entire house smells like road tar
I just changed a main breaker on a house. Power company could have shut it off remotely. Instead they wanted a service call to shut it off then they wanted the city to inspect it then they would turn the power back on. Hmmmm. Three days without power or get it done.... I had to laugh at the guy I was helping. He said, "But it's 220V." I said, "No, that's one is 110 and this one is 110. Don't touch both of them at the same time and you'll be fine."
gdbrewer,
Sorry if this was mentioned.
You should have got your shower pan hot mopped. It costs me around $300 on the houses I do and lasts pretty much forever. Plus your entire house smells like road tar
Ah, I see, never walked in another man's shoes I suppose. Hmm, lets see, I've never done much serial killing either. Looks like I need to rethink my position on the activities of Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer and their ilk. MAN, I really wish those two were around today so I could give them my heartfelt apology!!!
You have a very strange idea of keeping the customer happy.
Except that the back-wired outlet practically holds a death grip on the solid building wire feeding into it, unlike the OP's situation of bit of stranded wire stuffed into the outlet where the electrical contact is likely loosy-goosy.
But yeah, you could probably do it 100 times and never have a problem. I still wouldn't want that kind of kludgy thing anywhere near my house. The 101st time could be the charm.
Shooter said:Ah, I see, never walked in another man's shoes I suppose. Hmm, lets see, I've never done much serial killing either. Looks like I need to rethink my position on the activities of Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer and their ilk. MAN, I really wish those two were around today so I could give them my heartfelt apology!!!
I think I'm starting to understand why your contractor walked off the job.
Why is it that with any thread on HBT having to do with electricity the conversation inevitably devolves to snarkiness or worse? Stop the sniping at each other, please - be pleasant.
Nova5
Well-Known Member
If you replace the cover, don't replace it with the same kind like you already have (snap covers), as I think those no longer meet electrical code. You should replace it with one that has a cover that can be closed while a cord is plugged in.
Like this:
If your home center doesn't carry them, go to an electrical supply house. They only cost about 10 bucks.
Those don't even do what they are supposed to if you use anything higher than a 16-2 w/g ga cord. cord doesn't bend enough to allow the housing to close, so its always propped open. sLowes and Home Despot will carry them.
You need to buy the deeper ones that the electrical supply houses carry. I installed them on the outdoor outlets around my house and I plug in 12-2 w/g drop cords with no trouble closing the cover. However, try to plug in two cords...
dgr
Well-Known Member
Lost irony
