All brett porter: grain to glass time

[bovineblitz]

I'm thinking about doing one for a summer get together and am not too familiar with the timeline of all brett beers. I know that it's different to use 100% brett vs finishing with it. Could I possibly brew this in early February and bottle it by mid May or does it need more time than that?

Thanks!

 

[dcp27]

you could definitely pull that off. 5-6 weeks is usually a good timeline for an all brett primary. I recommend pitching at lager rates

 

[dcHokie]

I'm thinking about doing one for a summer get together and am not too familiar with the timeline of all brett beers. I know that it's different to use 100% brett vs finishing with it. Could I possibly brew this in early February and bottle it by mid May or does it need more time than that?

Thanks!

I'd be interested in seeing how an all-Brett Porter turns out, do you have the recipe worked out yet?

 

[bovineblitz]

I'd be interested in seeing how an all-Brett Porter turns out, do you have the recipe worked out yet?

I was thinking just a standard robust porter. Ithaca put out one this summer and a couple friends of mine weren't too keen on it so are dissuading me from going forward with it. They both said it came out too thin and dry for a porter and just left them feeling thirsty.

So I may scratch that and go with a less roasty grainbill for now since I plan on bringing it to an event and try out a porter in a smaller batch later on sometime.

 

[boostsr20]

Can be done in 30 days although I'm not sure on specific methods. I just watched an interview with Chad Yakobson of Crooked stave and his Wild WIld Brett Orange was 30 grain to glass and it looked to be bottled.

 

[bovineblitz]

I'm glad to hear it can be done fairly quickly. My only previous experiences with brett are after a regular old ale yeast does its job and I know the results are quite different.

Now I just have to do some research on the different brett strains and pick one out. I love that there's always more to learn in this hobby

 

[BootsyFlanootsy]

I've done a brett porter... though on accident.

I made a robust, fermented with S-05, it worked fine, UNTIL I accidentally used the same thief I had just used for a hydro sample of a saison that was fermented with one of AL B's Brett Blends. Lo-and-Behold, a month later and it had a BIG old pellicle on it. I agree that it doesn't fit the style well. It was too dry and too thin. I'd recommend using a farmhouse strain and adding the brett when the gravity get's down to 1.015 or so. Voila, dark saison!

 

[dcHokie]

They both said it came out too thin and dry for a porter and just left them feeling thirsty. So I may scratch that and go with a less roasty grainbill for now since I plan on bringing it to an event and try out a porter in a smaller batch later on sometime.

I agree that it doesn't fit the style well. It was too dry and too thin. I'd recommend using a farmhouse strain and adding the brett when the gravity get's down to 1.015 or so. Voila, dark saison!

This is kind of what I was thinking too. Porter (and stout) is an interesting vehicle for brett, but the resulting beer challenges the standard notion of that beer style. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy Madrugada Obscura for example, but I order a beer like that because I want something sour, something unique, not because I am craving a stout.

I wonder if doing an all-brett primary would give you enough control on a homebrew scale to keep it from thinning out significantly?

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

All brett beers are more like sacc beers than sours so the beer should retain the same mouthfeel as it would without brett. All brett fermentations produce different beers than brett secondary fermentations.

 

[dcp27]

All brett beers are more like sacc beers than sours so the beer should retain the same mouthfeel as it would without brett. All brett fermentations produce different beers than brett secondary fermentations.

+1, a brett primary is pretty attenuative, but its not super-attenuative like when used in secondary. you can control the mouthfeel like any other beer.

 

[Gritsak]

I recently did an all brett brown ale with brett B+C. Here are my gravity readings:

10/4-1.052 (brew day)
10/9- 1.021
10/29-1.017
11/30- 1.015

I haven't taken a sample since the last reading. I need to keg it, but i've been lazy. Flavors changed considerably from the 10/29 to 11/30 sample. It started to pick up some slight cherry notes. I liked it quite a bit based on my notes.

 

[bovineblitz]

+1, a brett primary is pretty attenuative, but its not super-attenuative like when used in secondary. you can control the mouthfeel like any other beer.

I wonder if a bit of extra carapils and maybe even some lactose could counteract the high (but not super super high) attenuation enough to give the beer a mouthfeel and residual sweetness closer to that of an english porter?

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

I wonder if a bit of extra carapils and maybe even some lactose could counteract the high (but not super super high) attenuation enough to give the beer a mouthfeel and residual sweetness closer to that of an english porter?

I don't think it will be necessary to add anything extra.

 

[BootsyFlanootsy]

besides, I'm pretty certain the brett would eventually chew up all those residual sugars from any sort of crystal malts. T/F?

The one thing I will say about most of my brett heavy beers, and something I'm starting to get sort of annoyed by, is confusing "funky" with "sour". Two completely different things IMO. I just got done drinking a glass of a "farmhouse" I made and fermented with both 3724 and an ECY brett blend, ( pitched simultaneously), and whereas it certainly has a bit of an acidic edge, I wouldn't call it "sour".... "funky" on the other hand........no doubt.

 

[BootsyFlanootsy]

the other thing I was going to add is that there IS definite historical accuracy for a brett presence in Porter, so perhaps doing some research into the whole blending of old ale with fresh ale, ala the more historical porters, might be a step in an interesting direction?

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

besides, I'm pretty certain the brett would eventually chew up all those residual sugars from any sort of crystal malts. T/F?

False. In an all brett fermentation brett really does act almost identical to sacc. It will produce some bretty flavors (sometimes) but it otherwise acts like a solidly attenuating sacc strain. It won't break down long chain sugars. It isn't even as attenuative as a saison strain, maybe more like a trappist strain. Maybe similar to pacman.

 

[boostsr20]

False. In an all brett fermentation brett really does act almost identical to sacc. It will produce some bretty flavors (sometimes) but it otherwise acts like a solidly attenuating sacc strain. It won't break down long chain sugars. It isn't even as attenuative as a saison strain, maybe more like a trappist strain. Maybe similar to pacman.

Interesting. I haven't done an all brett before. Why is it so much more attenuative when added to an already fermented beer?

 

[bovineblitz]

False. In an all brett fermentation brett really does act almost identical to sacc. It will produce some bretty flavors (sometimes) but it otherwise acts like a solidly attenuating sacc strain. It won't break down long chain sugars. It isn't even as attenuative as a saison strain, maybe more like a trappist strain. Maybe similar to pacman.

Right, that's where I based the "add carapils" idea... I'd want it to attenuate like an English strain rather than a Chico strain.

 

[Homebrewtastic]

Ive only used Brett in beers that were meant to be dry with the only exception being a 100% Brett rye ale.

That being said the ones that I've done with Brett as a secondary had an AA of around 90% while my 100% Brett beer went to 82% AA.

I haven't tried it but I believe that with a warm enough mash profile you could do an all Brett while leaving some.body

 

[Calder]

I have done a number of all-brett beers. It is mostly done in 2 weeks, but the last 10 to 20% takes a couple of months. My all-brett beers have taken between 11 to 19 weeks. It attenuates similar to Sacc (70 to 75%).

I like them, they have a great flavor. Mostly fruity, like a great saison yeast, but slowly develop more traditional brett flavors over time. Drinking one now (along the lines of Sans Le Chat from wild brews) and is really refreshing.

I'm not sure a stout is right for it (personal opinion, never done it, so may be great). I do a Brown/Porter with Coffee malt that comes out great.

My suggestions for making an all-brett beer are:

- Make a big starter (think lager).
- Aerate well. .... then aerate again.
- Use some acid malt in the mash.

 

[dcHokie]

I'm doing a 10 gallon batch of Orfy's Hobgoblin clone (with some minor tweaks) and thinking I may funk half the batch. Anyone got any thoughts on co-pitching a sacch strain w/Brett vs all-Brett vs a sacch primary & Brett secondary on a malty English beer like this one?

Not trying to thread jack you here BovineBlitz, but seemed similar to the conversation that transpired throughout the thread

 

[bovineblitz]

I'm doing a 10 gallon batch of Orfy's Hobgoblin clone (with some minor tweaks) and thinking I may funk half the batch. Anyone got any thoughts on co-pitching a sacch strain w/Brett vs all-Brett vs a sacch primary & Brett secondary on a malty English beer like this one?

Not trying to thread jack you here BovineBlitz, but seemed similar to the conversation that transpired throughout the thread

No worries

 

[bovineblitz]

Alright so I've got my mind set on doing an all Brett C Grisette.

6.5gal
OG: 1.047
IBU: 20.3
SRM: 3.4

8lbs Belgian Pils (71.1%)
2.75lbs Wheat Malt (24.4%)
8oz Sucrose (4.4%)
1oz Willamette @60min [5.5%] (12.3 IBU)
1oz Willamette @20min [5.5%] (7.5 IBU)
1oz Willamette @1 min [5.5%] (0.5 IBU)

I'm thinking I'll do 5.5gal of the Brett C and pull out a gallon and do a small starter with a bit of Jolly Pumpkin dregs for that.

Do I have to be concerned with the Brett C not developing much character given that it's a relatively low gravity brew?

 

[BootsyFlanootsy]

not sure about the brett c character, but I think that looks like a really solid recipe that ought to let the yeast shine through no matter what, I'm sure it will have plenty of character of some sort.

 

[dcHokie]

Recipe looks good Bovine. I ended up pitching just Brett-C for my Hobgoblin batch mentioned earlier, I'd recommend a big starter 3L+, aerate a ton, and don't freak out (like I did) if it takes 3 days to start (mine took almost 4).

Let us know how it goes!

 

[bovineblitz]

I just brewed this up yesterday, no chilled it in some borosilicate carboys, and pitched my starters today. Oh yeah I skipped the sugar and added a half pound of acid malt to make the brett happy.

4.25gal got a big pitch of Brett C, 2gal got a pitch of some Jolly Pumpkin dregs that were put in a 250ml starter for 2 days to hopefully wake them up along with a good dose of Brett C. I didn't aerate all that much since I read in multiple places that you get more brett character if you don't aerate at all... so I just went with swirling for a minute or two as opposed to direct O2 infusion. I wasn't going to NOT aerate especially since I no-chilled, there was probably almost zero O2 in there. Maybe I'm making a mistake here but I figure it's what I'd do if I didn't have an O2 system anyways so it should be sufficient and only stress the yeast a bit (which is what I want).

Efficiency was a little high so I wound up at 1.050, I don't really see that being a problem though. I figure I'll dry hop the all-brett portion before bottling in a month and a half or so and I'll give the bugged version a year or two to develop. It should be interesting.

I saved a bit of the brett in a sanitized jar as well, I'm going to use it when bottling a berliner weisse I had made over a year ago. I don't trust the yeast to carbonate it at this point and figure that brett will do a better job of eating the priming sugar than sacch in a highly acidic environment.

Thanks for all the advice, I'm no longer a brett noob!

 

[bovineblitz]

Holy crap, in 4.5 hours from pitching I have a large krausen and bubbles every 1 second in the all-brett beer. I only did a 1.5L starter on a stirplate, I thought maybe it wasn't enough.

Wow.

 

[malvado78]

How'd this turn out for you? My brewing buddy and I were trying to brew a clone of Edmund Fitz and ended up with an infection. From looking at pictures I thought it looked like a Brett infection so we warmed the temp (i.e. sat next to the furnace) as from my reading Brett likes warmer temps than we normally keep our brews at.

So we sat on it for ... (mar - july) 4 months. We are now cold crashing it and we tasted it uncarbed last night. It def was a Brett infection (per tasting like Brett) and I think it is tasting pretty good so far. Will carb soon.

I also had the Ithaca Dark Humor (brett porter) last summer. I enjoyed it. it had a real coffee component that the Brett seemed to work with. Not much coffee in this unintentional Brett homebrew but it has been a nice surprise.

 

[bovineblitz]

I wound up going with a grisette (essentially a small saison) instead of a porter due to input from here and some friends with experience. It's delicious so I'm happy with the decision. It wound up at about 1.011, I imagine yours is dryer since there's multiple strains in there.

Def sounds interesting, esp since Fitz is such a roasty porter. I was thinking a brown porter might work well.

Let us know how it turns out.

 

[malvado78]

I wound up going with a grisette (essentially a small saison) instead of a porter due to input from here and some friends with experience. It's delicious so I'm happy with the decision. It wound up at about 1.011, I imagine yours is dryer since there's multiple strains in there.

Def sounds interesting, esp since Fitz is such a roasty porter. I was thinking a brown porter might work well.

Let us know how it turns out.

I missed that post where you updated your plan. I see it now. I know it certainly will be interesting. Will try to remember to updated once it is carbed. We need to take a final ready to see when it dried out to.