Old time Porters and Stouts, Brettanomyces and actual AA estimates.

[Erik the Anglophile]

I've been looking at and trying to brew by recipes inspired by late 1800's-early 1900's porters/stouts and most often the AA is listed as rather low, usually in the low-mid 60's range.
I brewed a porter that finished at 67%AA, mostly because I mashed to end up there abouts as I believed that would be the most accurate.
But then I started thinking, are those the actual FG for the finished for consumption beers or just racking gravities?
I know they aged even normal gravity porters for about 6 months in wood cask before shipping it out to be either put in smaller casks for publicans or bottled, and by that time they definitely knew what Brett was and wich ageing casks were "infected" and wich were not.
I know Imperial stouts were most often secondary fermented with brett and I have a historical one that will be aged on wood and brett, but what about ordinary stouts and porters? Where those "bretted" aswell to dry them out a little?
If I don't want to go through the hassle of brett ageing my ordinary porters, should I try to mash to try to achieve more like mid-medium high 70's levels of AA to achieve a more correct FG or where those high gravities the actual FG?

 

[VikeMan]

But then I started thinking, are those the actual FG for the finished for consumption beers or just racking gravities?

I have no proof, but I have always assumed that those were the gravities at packaging time.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Ron has said many times that the final gravities in his recipes are typically "cleansing" gravities. That is, a mid-process gravity.

 

[VikeMan]

Ron has said many times that the final gravities in his recipes are typically "cleansing" gravities. That is, a mid-process gravity.

What does "cleansing" mean in this context? Does something special happen at that stage?

 

[DBhomebrew]

It's at racking, I believe with a few points left. For the stock ales, it's got absolutely nothing to do with the packaging gravity as the cleansing gravity would be before touching brett.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I suppose aiming for mid-mid high 70's AA would be more accurate then if I don't want to muck around with oak and brett for my not for bottle stouts and porters.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Butt were normal strenght porters and stouts aged on barrels containing Brett, or was that more of a Imperial stout and stock/old ale thing?

 

[DBhomebrew]

You may be more interested in mid-20th rather than 19th century recipes.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Why is that?

 

[DBhomebrew]

Well, I said that with a "may". Thinking gravities on average fell to 'normal' levels in the 20th and brett became less ubiquitous. But, I just took a look at Ron's Home Brewer's Guide. Lots of normal (5% or so) porters at high-60 to low/mid-70 AA. Were porters mild? I don't know.

@patto1ro?

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Running porters stopped being a thing in the mid 19th century as I recall from what I read in Porter!
Most Porters/Stouts and many pale ales were vatted in oak casks for at least 6 months, therefore the often insane bu:gu ratios for stronger pale ales...
But assuming that by the late 1800's the gravities listed in the records for porters are racking gravities, one could assume that the actual FG was more in line with a final AA of low-mid 70%.

Gonna brew a 1.065 stout soon, GP, 10% Amber, 8% each Brown and Black, 5% Heritage Crystal, 10% invert 3 40 IBU and moderate amounts of late boil hops and a handfull thrown in when I pitch yeast.
Gonna ferment with Verdant/MJ M36 and mash at 67c/75min so I will likely end up at around above mentioned AA compared to the 67% my porter ageing right now ended at.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Also pondering mixing the base malt 50/50 GP/Vienna as an approximation of 50/50 pale/mild malt wich would have been likely in such a beer.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Some interesting stuff here. Continue to the comments.

https://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2010/02/malt-usage-ca-1885.html?m=1

 

[DuncB]

This podcast is topical to the thread. Interesting about malt choice and Brett.