Aged Kriek: carbonation problems

[messersc]

About seven weeks ago I bottled a kriek that had been sitting for some 15-16 months. It's my first sour beer ever.

It fermented down pretty low (1.006 from 1.061 OG). It tastes very nice... the only problem is that it's still not carbonated at all. I primed with DME at an amount that was aiming for slightly over-average carbonation.

Is this something I need to do something about? How long should I sit on it before it's clear that nothing's going to happen? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[TNGabe]

It sounds like you didn't add yeast at bottling. When you don't add yeast at bottling with an aged, mixed fermentation beer you are relying on the brettanomyces to carbonate the beer. If the pH is very low, it can take quite a while and I believe that the bacteria may also be working on the bottling sugar (DME in your case) while the brett is trying to turn it in CO2 and alcohol.

What temperature are your bottles being stored at? If below about 20C, trying moving them somewhere warmer. If it was my beer, I would just keep waiting and/or drink them undercarbonated. They will probably carbonate eventually, though it may take a few months or longer. If the low carbonation really bothers you, you can add a champagne or wine yeast to the bottles. Doing that in a sanitary fashion will be tricky. You'd probably want to rehydrate dry yeat and then add slurry with a pipette. I have no idea how to figure out dosage.

Good luck!

 

[BrasseurGeorges]

It sounds like you didn't add yeast at bottling. When you don't add yeast at bottling with an aged, mixed fermentation beer you are relying on the brettanomyces to carbonate the beer. If the pH is very low, it can take quite a while and I believe that the bacteria may also be working on the bottling sugar (DME in your case) while the brett is trying to turn it in CO2 and alcohol.

What temperature are your bottles being stored at? If below about 20C, trying moving them somewhere warmer. If it was my beer, I would just keep waiting and/or drink them undercarbonated. They will probably carbonate eventually, though it may take a few months or longer. If the low carbonation really bothers you, you can add a champagne or wine yeast to the bottles. Doing that in a sanitary fashion will be tricky. You'd probably want to rehydrate dry yeat and then add slurry with a pipette. I have no idea how to figure out dosage.

Good luck!

Yeah, the Prise de Mousse strain (EC-1118/Premier Cuvee) is a beast. Go with that if you decide you need to repitch. Very tolerant of low pH, high alcohol, temp range, etc. Honestly, you could probably pitch a few grains in each bottle and call it good. If you want to baby it a bit more, rehydrate for 20 min in 104F, dechlorinated (but not de-mineralized!) water. Next step would be to introduce some of the beer (like 1/2 vol of rehydration medium) to acclimate to conditions and temp. There are more involved, longer processes for highly unfavorable conditions like sparkling wine, but I think you'd be fine doing far less with moderate conditions and a robust strain. Plus the less you do, the less risk of contamination as TNGabe says, though I tend to think the bugs and yeast will dominate regardless.

 

[messersc]

It sounds like you didn't add yeast at bottling. When you don't add yeast at bottling with an aged, mixed fermentation beer you are relying on the brettanomyces to carbonate the beer. If the pH is very low, it can take quite a while and I believe that the bacteria may also be working on the bottling sugar (DME in your case) while the brett is trying to turn it in CO2 and alcohol.

What temperature are your bottles being stored at? If below about 20C, trying moving them somewhere warmer. If it was my beer, I would just keep waiting and/or drink them undercarbonated. They will probably carbonate eventually, though it may take a few months or longer. If the low carbonation really bothers you, you can add a champagne or wine yeast to the bottles. Doing that in a sanitary fashion will be tricky. You'd probably want to rehydrate dry yeat and then add slurry with a pipette. I have no idea how to figure out dosage.

Good luck!

Thanks, Gabe and Georges - I guess I should have been a little more detailed in my first post. I did add yeast at bottling, but it was Safale US-05. From what Georges is saying, it sounds like I should have been more discerning about which particular yeast I put in there. And yes, the bottles are right next to the radiator, and have been since bottling.

I agree that there's nothing terrible about sour beer that's flat - it's sort of wine-like to begin with, after all - but I am going to try to add yeast.

I live in Europe and don't have all the yeast options that you have in the States, so I don't think the strain Georges mentioned is available to me. Unless anyone has any objections, I think I'm going to go with Bioferm Champ. Wyeast 4021 (Pasteur Champagne, Prise de mousse) would also be available to me... I have no experience with these yeasts; I'm just looking at what's listed as "champagne yeast."

Thanks!

 

[BrasseurGeorges]

Thanks, Gabe and Georges - I guess I should have been a little more detailed in my first post. I did add yeast at bottling, but it was Safale US-05. From what Georges is saying, it sounds like I should have been more discerning about which particular yeast I put in there. And yes, the bottles are right next to the radiator, and have been since bottling.

I agree that there's nothing terrible about sour beer that's flat - it's sort of wine-like to begin with, after all - but I am going to try to add yeast.

I live in Europe and don't have all the yeast options that you have in the States, so I don't think the strain Georges mentioned is available to me. Unless anyone has any objections, I think I'm going to go with Bioferm Champ. Wyeast 4021 (Pasteur Champagne, Prise de mousse) would also be available to me... I have no experience with these yeasts; I'm just looking at what's listed as "champagne yeast."

Thanks!

That should work! Surprised to hear of your limited access, I was sure Lallemand manufacture and distribute in Europe as well.

 

[dantheman13]

That is interesting that US05 wasn't able to kickstart. I recently used the Red Star Champagne Yeast to bottle a Gueuze. Has anyone had any experience with that failing?