Acid and IBUs

[brownni5]

A common discussion point here is that hops limit the ability of microbes to sour - I've touted it myself. And most of the time it's true, especially when dealing with kettle or fast sour methods and something like L. plantarum that we might get from probiotic capsules or Goodbelly shots.

But, remember that there are other ways to skin the proverbial cat, they just don't happen fast. About a year ago, I brewed a "dark" Saison inspired by some recipes in Mike Tonsmeier's book, which were in turn inspired by Tomme Arthur at the Lost Abbey. I bottled half the batch and put the rest in a carboy to condition with Brettanomyces and bacteria. With an ounce of Magnum in the boil, and an additional ounce of Fuggles late in the boil, my software calculated the IBUs to be about 40 in a 1.063 wort. The resulting "clean" batch was not my thing - kinda brown tasting (though getting better with time), but the other half got some Gigayeast Sour Cherry Funk slurry from a previous sour and dregs from Jolly Pumpkin - probably Bambier.

Tonight I'll be bottling this - it is delightfully sour and complex. The bitterness from all the hops doesn't come through at all. I doubt it was the commercial blend that did the souring - I'm convinced it was the JP dregs which are known to really overpower everything else. It's very Oud Bruin like now.

I write this not to say this is how everyone should make sour beer, but to open up the idea that one can experiment with a beer that's drinkable now as a clean beer and perhaps later as a sour beer. The biggest draw back here is time - I've been staring at this carboy for a long time (though not that long in the sour beer calendar), so patience is necessary. Take home message: don't be afraid to experiment.

 

[Funky Frank]

Does the clean version still have a bitter bite? Any chance the hops were old? What was oxygen like for the sour version? Does the tartness come across as lactic acid (creamy) or acetic acid (sharp)?

Just looking for additional info.

I have a buddy that has won 3 first place, a second place, and best-in-show kinda stuff....all from large competitions...with the same beer...an English Brown Ale (somewhere in the upper 20ibu) that accidentally got soured. To his credit, once he noticed a pellicle he steered it in the direction of its outcome. I’m still jealous that his accidental beer way-outshines my intentional sours...lol

 

[mashpaddled]

I typically hop my sour beers at around 25-30 IBUs when using unaged hops (and project similar IBUs with aged hops). I have never had a problem with a clashing bitterness. I am sure there is a point where the bitterness remains in an unpleasant way but 25-30 IBUs is not it. At that level I have good consistency of sufficient but gentle sourness with better flavor development and some mouthfeel help from the hop tannins. I tend to find sours beers with very low bittering additions have a thin, unremarkable body and not much going on in the flavor department outside of acid flavor.

 

[couchsending]

I’ve had JP dregs sour a 40 theoretical IBU beer in under a month. They are string little suckers. You’ll here most breweries that focus on mixed fermentation beers say when their culture is strong they’re anywhere from 25-45 IBUs to prevent the beer from becoming too sour.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I tend to find sours beers with very low bittering additions have a thin, unremarkable body and not much going on in the flavor department outside of acid flavor.

This depends entirely on the process and the cultures used.
I make low/zero hopped sours with loads of flavor and body.