A little overwhelmed

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skogarr

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So I am doing my first All-Grain brew, a Yeti clone. and after getting talked into it at the brew shop, I am feeling a bit overwhelmed and I'm not sure I completely understand the process. I'm using a borrowed mash tun. And from my understanding this is the process. Any corrections/recommendations are welcome and appreciated.
1 - Grain bill is almost 20 lbs so all grains including hops are "mashed" at 150 degrees with 25 quarts of water, for one hour.
2 - Wort is drained off into my boil kettle where I add 2 gallons of water. Boil for one hour.
3 - chill wort,
4 - pitch yeast
5 - ect(like normal)

I hope I understand this correctly.:confused:
 
Hmm, a few things.

Grains are mashed by themselves, not with the hops. Unless you're mash hopping. Which is doubtful in a yeti clone.

Get all your wort from the grains via sparging, you shouldn't need to add any water to the wort, just to the grains after your drain out your first and second runnings.

Then you boil all that for the prescribed time, probably the typical 60-90 mins. During this time is when you would add the hops, at the prescribed time.

Then you chill and pitch the yeast. Watch this video, it helped me quite a bit before my first all grain batch.

 
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you're adding hot water to the grains, letting them soak a bit, then draining the water out & leaving the spent grains behind

basically what you're doing is making your own extract & the rest of the brew day is the exact same as doing an extract batch
 
Yeah you forgot the sparge step. Instead of adding water directly to the wort after the mash you pour it through the grain to rinse some more sugar out. There are different ways to sparge, but you'll probably want to do a batch sparge. I would see how much wort you end up with in your kettle and then sparge with however much water you need to get your desired pre-boil amount. After the mash the grain can't absorb any more water so however much you put into your sparge you will get out again.

You'll need to find out when exactly during the boil to add the hops. If you don't have that info call the homebrew store you got it from or post what hops you have and someone here can probably help you.

You'll need to figure out what temp to heat the strike water. The grain will lower the temp of the water when you add them together, so if you're mashing at 150 the initial temp of the water should be in the 160's, probably 163 or so, but it varies depending on a few factors. You can use an online calculator to help you figure that out. You may want to preheat the mash tun with hot water too.

On your first few batches you probably won't hit your numbers exactly because you'll still be figuring out the nuances of your system, but don't worry too much about it. You can screw up the mashing process pretty badly and still get good beer. I jumped straight into all grain on my first batch and it took me a little while to get my temps and volumes to come out where I wanted them, but the beer turned out fine. The more you brew you'll learn tons of other little tips and tricks, but don't overcomplicate it for now. Just focus on the basic procedure and take notes and learn your system and let the natural processes do their thing, they know what they're doing.
 
Go to Youtube and look up All grain brewing with John Palmer. He will calm and cool you and show you how to brew the right way... Chilled out. All grain is easy. No more difficult than extract. Just more time consuming.
 
Thanks for all the feedback. I already feel better about it. I just saw all my ingredients and all the time and temp numbers and I think I am over thinking it. Relax and have a home brew...right.


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Jrtgr42- honestly the guy at the brew shop was talking about it and instead of asking the questions I had, I decided to pretend I knew what he was talking about. So it's what I inferred the process was.


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Jrtgr42- honestly the guy at the brew shop was talking about it and instead of asking the questions I had, I decided to pretend I knew what he was talking about.

Oh man, I've been there! Lots of good advice in this thread... I'd just add that asking lots of dumb questions (especially around other brewers) is the fastest way to learn. Better to ask than to get really frustrated as your brew day turns ugly.
 
No. You get the water hotter than your mash temp. That way when you add the (cooler grains) you lower the temp to your mash temp. The water you add the grains to is called the "strike water" and you can use an online calculator to determine the strike water temp for the quantity of grains/water in your recipe.

If you read how to brew, it will seem very difficult and confusing. Palmer is great, and you should read it, but the math is more than I have the desire to do. I use Beersmith software. With that all I need to understand is the concept, it does all the math for me.

Good luck with your brew.


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That's the difference between steeping and mashing. With an extract batch where you are merely steeping your grains you can just put them in as the water is heating up, since you're basically just making a grain tea to get color and flavor.

Mashing is like a controlled steep at a precise temperature, and you want to try to maintain that same temperature from the beginning to the end of the mash. During the mash enzymes are turning starch into sugar and that happens at specific temperatures. A lot of the action happens in the beginning of the mash so you want to try to hit your desired temp as soon as the grain is in the water (once it's mixed in and the temp stabilizes). If you're off by a few (or even several) degrees it's not the end of the world and your beer won't be ruined, but try to keep it as close as you can. You might want to have some hot and cold water on hand to adjust the temp up or down in case you miss your temp on the first try.
 
As an AG noob, I can appreciate your "overthinking" it lol. I think we all do/did to some extent. There is a lot of good advice here. A couple tips from another noob. There are a lot of calculators to help you determine strike water temperature to get your desired mash temperature. I use 1.25 quarts per pound of water. When you heat your strike water, you have two options, both have been directly or indirectly mentioned. One is heating your strike 5-10 degrees hotter than you need. When you pour it into the mash tun, close the lid for about ten minutes. This will warm the tun prior to grain additions and the water should have dropped to your desired temperature. If it's still a tick too warm, you can add some ice cubes until it reaches your desired temperature. The other way is to add a gallon or tow of boiling water to the tun, slosh it around after covering, and let it sit for 5-10 minutes. Empty it out before adding your strike water. Trust me, the tun will sap a bunch of heat from that water warming up. If you don't preheat the tun before strike is added, or overheat the strike water to compensate for warming the tun up, you WILL drop below your desired strike temperature on this. Trust me. First thing I learned.

I also do a double batch sparge. BeerSmith tells me how much sparge water I need, and actually splits it into two batch sparges. The software also generally uses less water on the first sparge, and more in the second, but I've done alright by splitting the total sparge water between the two. This water you want right at 168 degrees (or as close as you can get), because the grain bed is already preheated so you won't lose quite as much heat as you do for the initial mash in. Between the strike water, grain absorption, and sparge water, you should have exactly what you need in total wort when you're done collecting your intial wort from strike and subsequent water from sparge to do your boil and have the right amount at the end.

A couple other things....add the grain SLOWLY, but STEADILY. Don't dump it in in one massive amount or you'll have a ton of doughballs to deal with. But don't add it so slowly that you're losing heat either. Stir constantly as you add it in. A good mash paddle or spoon is way better than those ****ty plastic paddles in my mind. Make sure you stir it very well to bust up doughballs, especially focusing in corners and other areas where grains my congregate. Once you have it well mashed in, close the lid and leave it the F alone for the next sixty minutes. Others may say to stir the bed once or twice (or more) during mash to improve efficiency, but your first attempt isn't about maximizing efficiency, it's about understanding the process. Leave it the F alone.

Remember to vorlauf well before collecting each set of runnings. Turn the valve slowly to about half way open, collect the runnings in a pitcher, and GENTLY pour that back on top of the grain bed. You may have to do this several times before the wort runs clear. ONLY when the wort is running clear should you collect it in your boil kettle. At that time, drain each running fully, shut the valve, and do the next sparge. Repeat process until done. Remember to stir the mash well, just like you did at dough-in, for each sparge. Again, REMEMBER to vorlauf the next runnings as well.

After that, start your wort boiling and do everything just as you did with extracts as far as timing of hops additions and such. You may find you get much more of a hot break with all grain, so watch for foaming/boilovers as you approach boiling and be ready to deal with them. A spray bottle filled with starsan water is excellent for controlling the hot break foaming.

Start cleaning up your mash tun and other equipment while working your boil. It will save time and is much easier to clean before the grain starts to harden up. I can clean my tun in about 5-10 minutes and then it's done. Much easier than trying to wash dried grains off the side.

Have fun! You will definately feel like you are taking more "control" of your brewing, though that can be good and bad. Worry about **** like improving efficiency and such until you have a few brews through your system. I haven't begun to worry about that, I'm more interested in figuring out the nuances of my system at the moment. The other stuff will come with time. It is NOT that difficult. More steps? Yes. More difficult? Not really.
 
So I am doing my first All-Grain brew, a Yeti clone. and after getting talked into it at the brew shop, I am feeling a bit overwhelmed and I'm not sure I completely understand the process. I'm using a borrowed mash tun. And from my understanding this is the process. Any corrections/recommendations are welcome and appreciated.
1 - Grain bill is almost 20 lbs so all grains including hops are "mashed" at 150 degrees with 25 quarts of water, for one hour.
2 - Wort is drained off into my boil kettle where I add 2 gallons of water. Boil for one hour.
3 - chill wort,
4 - pitch yeast
5 - ect(like normal)

I hope I understand this correctly.:confused:



If you're new to brewing why not do some extracts first, and work your way up from there?
 
Why not just let it ride and see what happens? I'd honestly like to know what the outcome is. My guess is that you will have a low OG and probably left a lot of sugar in the mash tun.
 
so I believe I may have made a fatal error. I didn't heat the sparge water. Is this batch trash?

That's merely a slight glitch, not a fatal error. I use cold water to sparge usually. It makes little difference in the amount of sugars you capture because the hot grains heat up the sparge water.:rockin:
 
Kai talks a bit about his experiment with cold water sparging here and here.

his conclusions

  • Cold sparging does not have strong adverse effects on efficiency and beer quality
  • when a mash-out is performed it has no apparent effect on the fermentability of the wort. I don't know if this is still the case when no mash-out is done.
  • it may make the beer more prone to haze
  • it does not really save time since the wort at the end of the lauter will be colder and require more time to be heated to boiling temperatures
  • it can save the need for a pot for heating the sparge water
  • Since the spent grain temperature is lower at the end of a cold sparge less energy is wasted.
 
Thanks, for all the help everyone. I racked it this weekend, and I don't think the alcohol level is going to be what I anticipated but it smells great and the sample taste I did was pretty good. Stouts have become my unicorn, everyone that I try turns into a learning experience. Even the stout extract I did, didn't pan out well. Perhaps I will stick to ales and pilsners and such since I have a good handle on those, and my girlfriend wont drink stouts.
 
Thanks, for all the help everyone. I racked it this weekend, and I don't think the alcohol level is going to be what I anticipated but it smells great and the sample taste I did was pretty good. Stouts have become my unicorn, everyone that I try turns into a learning experience. Even the stout extract I did, didn't pan out well. Perhaps I will stick to ales and pilsners and such since I have a good handle on those, and my girlfriend wont drink stouts.

Perhaps you haven't been giving them enough time to completely mature. My stouts change slowly but greatly. The best one I have had so far spent 2 years in the bottle at room temp. It was really smooth.
 
Perhaps you haven't been giving them enough time to completely mature. My stouts change slowly but greatly. The best one I have had so far spent 2 years in the bottle at room temp. It was really smooth.

Agreed (although I think it's the stronger ones, like your Yeti clone, that tend to age better).

Also, one of the tricky things about stouts is getting the quantity of roasted grains right. Too little and you end up with a more straight-ahead dark ale; too much and it becomes astringent and burnt-tasting, which may age out but is certainly not the best starting point. If you feel like your brews have typically fallen on one of those sides compared to what you were hoping for, that might be the issue.

By the way, now that you've done your first AG batch, what do you think? Not as difficult as it seemed, is it? :)
 
Agreed (although I think it's the stronger ones, like your Yeti clone, that tend to age better).

Also, one of the tricky things about stouts is getting the quantity of roasted grains right. Too little and you end up with a more straight-ahead dark ale; too much and it becomes astringent and burnt-tasting, which may age out but is certainly not the best starting point. If you feel like your brews have typically fallen on one of those sides compared to what you were hoping for, that might be the issue.

By the way, now that you've done your first AG batch, what do you think? Not as difficult as it seemed, is it? :)

Very true. Once I got past the terminology and understood the process and "why" it all makes perfect sense. I'm looking forward to the next one which will be a Red Ale. Which I've named before I've even started it...Eric the Red, Ale. Given my Norwegian ancestry I find it fitting. I have all the grains I want to try but the girlfriend put a halt on any new brewing till after we move later this month...Buzz kill.
 
I racked it this weekend, and I don't think the alcohol level is going to be what I anticipated

Did you take a gravity reading after sparging? I always keep some DME on hand, so if my gravity after sparging is low for some reason then I can add some DME to the boil to compensate. It will add about 9 gravity units per pound for a five gallon batch, IIRC. When you take your initial gravity reading, be sure and compensate for the volume difference between your pre and post boil amount. Let me know if you would like me to run through an example scenario.
 
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