2011 San Diego NHC

[chriswilkes33]

its no disadvantage at all, its the advantage of having a unlimited unnumbered club, with no limit on the entries. by not being a official club with no meetings, they can have 1000s of entries, and the poorer beers dont get reflected into the judging for the award. its like me entering a beer as the same club soper is in, even though i never talked to any of the members or meet them in person. its BS

How is that any different than a club of 40 people having to compete with clubs a few hundred?

My small club has people that do not participate in any club functions that compete under our club name. Is that any different than how the BN, or Quaff or the St. Paul people do it?

I also dont get upset that a local club will win the award for bringing the most beer to the conference every year. Jokes on them when they have to carry that urinal accross the country for the next years conference.

 

[remilard]

I seriously doubt the BN had anywhere near a hundred entrants. They entered all regions, but QUAFF amd SPHBC typically entered four or more.

Why complain about maximizing what the rules allow all of a sudden?

I expect the reaction to be most negative here because of the stupid BN envy. It comes off petty guys.

 

[weirdboy]

BTW I cannot get over the fact that QUAFF showed up with 135 kegs to club night. That is just sick.

 

[Saccharomyces]

I expect the reaction to be most negative here because of the stupid BN envy. It comes off petty guys.

I believe 90% of people polled at NHC would agree that BN should not be considered as a club, and I agree with them. However the rules are the rules, and whether they change them for next year is up to the AHA governing committee to decide, with input from its members.

That said, if you care one way or the other, write to Gary Glass and tell him what you think, don't ***** and moan about it on the forums, that won't solve anything and will be seen by the BN folks as trolling.

 

[Gremlyn]

I've paid little to no attention to the BN, it's just never been on my radar or anything that has piqued my interest. I know of them, but really know nothing about them, so I feel I'm quite neutral on any bad vibes between HBT and the BN army. And if I can't ***** and moan about stuff like this on the internet, where can I?

 

[Cape Brewing]

(agreeing with Grem again)

... and I don't think I'm bitching and moaning. I don't think I'm being all super pissy. I just dont think a website with thousands and thousands of people, from all over the planet, who wouldn't know each other from a hole in the wall is a "club".

I don't have any skin in the game since my club doesn't really enter any beers in the NHC anyway. We would never remotely compete with some of the larger clubs... but, at least their CLUBS.

I have zero problem with a huge regional club (hundreds of members) but like I said... Ten of thousands of people from all over the planet who's onli link to each other is posting online... its just not a club in my mind.

Clubs are clubs... not businesses.

Sure, maybe you have some really large clubs out there that make some decent money but they're not a business. BN is a business that provides a service to the general public, and as a result, has customers globally (just like HBT). BN is a professional service that makes money, pays employees, etc from revenue made (advertising fees, etc) people who use their services.

That is not what a club is.

 

[Cape Brewing]

SEVENTEEN bottles of beer in my luggage and not a single one broken.

 

[remilard]

(agreeing with Grem again)

... and I don't think I'm bitching and moaning. I don't think I'm being all super pissy. I just dont think a website with thousands and thousands of people, from all over the planet, who wouldn't know each other from a hole in the wall is a "club".

I don't have any skin in the game since my club doesn't really enter any beers in the NHC anyway. We would never remotely compete with some of the larger clubs... but, at least their CLUBS.

I have zero problem with a huge regional club (hundreds of members) but like I said... Ten of thousands of people from all over the planet who's onli link to each other is posting online... its just not a club in my mind.

Clubs are clubs... not businesses.

Sure, maybe you have some really large clubs out there that make some decent money but they're not a business. BN is a business that provides a service to the general public, and as a result, has customers globally (just like HBT). BN is a professional service that makes money, pays employees, etc from revenue made (advertising fees, etc) people who use their services.

That is not what a club is.

There aren't thousands of people who enter as The BN. I listen to The BN but am a member of another club and enter as that club. There are thousands of those people.

The fact that you keep throwing around numbers that have no basis in reality makes me wonder if you would object to what was happening if you had a good grasp on what was truly happening?

 

[Shooter]

BTW I cannot get over the fact that QUAFF showed up with 135 kegs to club night. That is just sick.

Yeah and I tried only two of them. Their pulled pork sliders were pretty good.

 

[Cape Brewing]

There aren't thousands of people who enter as The BN. I listen to The BN but am a member of another club and enter as that club. There are thousands of those people.

The fact that you keep throwing around numbers that have no basis in reality makes me wonder if you would object to what was happening if you had a good grasp on what was truly happening?

Well... at least you decided not to take the really *****y snarky route in responding. That's always appreciated. Thanks.

And I'm sorry... I don't have a good grasp on this whole thing so can you show me where I said they had thousands of people were entering as BN??? You obviously have a good grasp on reality so I must have said that somewhere.

I thought I simply said that they had thousands of members all over the planet. I didn't think I ever said they were flooding the comp with entries and hell, if some of the bigger real clubs (ASH or QUAF that were both there) want to bomb 1,000 entries on the comp... awesome... have at it, I never said I had a problem with it. I THOUGHT what I said was I just didn't think BN was a "club" since they were a professional business that doesn't have a regional membership that gets together, has regular club meetings, etc. They're a business who sells advertising space on a website and they promote their website by providing a forum for their "members".... which is awesome... BN is fantastic for the homebrewing community and I am actually a big fan of BN... that doesn't mean they're a club.

 

[AnonyBrew]

I had a great time. I think. I'll be posting more pics once I get time.

My only comment as far as the BN club thing is concerned is that it was strange seeing one of our own local AZ club members standing up on stange with the BN "club" accepting the award.

 

[AnonyBrew]

Who's still wearing their NHC wristband? I am.

 

[Cape Brewing]

I thought it was a blast all the way through. I thought the AHA, the "pro's", the clubs and the volunteers put on a pretty amazing event considering the size and the fact a huge portion of it revolved around drinking beer for several hours straight.

Like I was saying before, it was awesome to meet a bunch of the HBT guys...

Thanks again to Grem for hosting that tasting.

Couple of other quick things...

My two favorite digs on a beer (which were both said 99% as a joke) were:
1) this tastes like it was run through a randall full of used baby diapers
2) I am getting bad rubbery taste... like a condom that was used for anal

Given how much the Massholes give olllllo a hard time, I was pretty psyched he didn't just take a swing at me when we met (I would have blamed Paul).

 

[NTabb]

My thought is if your bitching about the BN winning club of the year then contact the AHA and try to get the rules changed. As of now they're eligible to win and they did. Congratulations to those guys! If the rules don't change I wish them luck again next year. Does no good to ***** here.

 

[mklawz]

I've paid little to no attention to the BN, it's just never been on my radar or anything that has piqued my interest.

Exact same for me. But I will go on record saying that it is a little lame that they won Club of the Year. And Im certainly not "envious" of them, as I won my hardware The great clubs like Quaff, DOZE, and the Maltose Falcons - camaradery, enthusiasm, community, those looked like incredible clubs and they were having a blast. Now THAT is something to be envious about!!

No, Im not "bitching", so take it easy. Im just stating my opinion on a public forum.

 

[AnonyBrew]

I dont have a problem with it, frustrating as it may be to be up against them, its no more frustrating to me to be up against a massive club from a huge city. Oh yeah, I dont really compete anyway.

What if you saw Kerry & Mark standing up on stage with them accepting the award?

 

[remilard]

The great clubs like Quaff, DOZE, and the Maltose Falcons - camaradery, enthusiasm, community, those looked like incredible clubs and they were having a blast.

I would say that The BN has camaraderie, enthusiasm, community, and have a blast.

Here is an interesting exercise:

1. What do you think the rules should be?
2. Would QUAFF or SPHBC have won club of the year under those rules?

 

[Cape Brewing]

1) -A club can not be a for-profit entity
- A club must represent a reasonably-sized geographical area that allows for members to gather for regular in-person meetings

....otherwise, if Northern Brewer was smart they would immediately register as a "club" (if they haven't already) and simply drop a note in people's orders, "Hey, if you're not in a club... you are now!! Welcome to the Northern Brewer Army!" So now Northern Brewer can win "club of the year"? Hey, BN won fair and square by the letter of the current rules. I just think the rules should changes since it doesn't, in my opinion, promote the spirit of what clubs are really supposed to be.

2) I dunno... I think Quaff may have won... I thought I remembered them popping up for a lot of medals.

 

[humann_brewing]

I knew this was going to be the topic, we were wondering if they were going to change the rules on what a "club" is now.

Either way, good times were had.

 

[weirdboy]

2) I dunno... I think Quaff may have won... I thought I remembered them popping up for a lot of medals.

He means in e.g. 2004.

 

[Cape Brewing]

He means in e.g. 2004.

ah.. sorry... i thought he meant if they had removed BN from the running for this year.

I don't know the membership of those clubs so I dunno. If a club is pulling 10,000 members from a local areas and a bulk of those members actually get together on occasion, then more power to 'em. That's a mega club.

But... let's just say after I left the NHC yesterday I said to myself, "Gee... ya know... olllllo, Soper, AZ_IPA and some of the other guys... those guys were pretty cool and I want to be in ASH (their club) even though I'll never make a meeting", and I send ASH my dues. I can then send in all of my beers in as ASH?

That's weak.

Is it against the rules?? No, I don't think so but I still think that's weak.

You're opening the door for clubs to recruit brewers from all over the planet just so they can lay claim to "club of the year" honors... which... as the AHA and NHC grow (they're growing by leaps and bounds) that will be a bigger and bigger deal.

Homebrewers have a cool culture and I think this all runs counter to that culture.

That's just me though.

... and yes, I did email the AHA. I sent them a real thank you and a very non-bitchy two sentences on BN. My guess is they'll get a lot of them.

 

[weirdboy]

ah.. sorry... i thought he meant if they had removed BN from the running for this year.

I don't know the membership of those clubs so I dunno. If a club is pulling 10,000 members from a local areas and a bulk of those members actually get together on occasion, then more power to 'em. That's a mega club.

But... let's just say after I left the NHC yesterday I said to myself, "Gee... ya know... olllllo, Soper, AZ_IPA and some of the other guys... those guys were pretty cool and I want to be in ASH (their club) even though I'll never make a meeting", and I send ASH my dues. I can then send in all of my beers in as ASH?

That's weak.

That is exactly what happened with QUAFF and Saint Paul. Jamil submitted his beers as a QUAFF member even though he lives in the bay area (well--more like Sacramento), and Gordon Strong submitted his under Saint Paul even though he lives in Ohio.



With regards to the for-profit thing it would be very easy, and probably likely, for BN (or members) to set up a non-profit "BN Army" homebrew club which would easily circumvent the rule.

 

[Saccharomyces]

That is exactly what happened with QUAFF and Saint Paul. Jamil submitted his beers as a QUAFF member even though he lives in the bay area, and Gordon Strong submitted his under Saint Paul even though he lives in Ohio.

Gordon actually attends most of the St Paul homebrewers meetings though, since he travels to St Paul for work so often. He lives in Dayton and there is nothing in Dayton except heroine addicts and unemployed auto workers (I know because I grew up there).

 

[mklawz]

I would say that The BN has camaraderie, enthusiasm, community, and have a blast.

Or was it a bunch of people who only knew eachother by screen name (until the conference) and got up on stage together??

Look Im not trying to stir the pot. I certainly think things like The BN, HBT, etc. are great and serve a very important function in homebrewing. But "brew clubs" they are not.

 

[Cape Brewing]

well... I've said my piece. I think its a shame that an award like that has been reduced to gamesmanship (there is even a BN forum thread that goes into this whole debate... including one post that says, "how can we not win with the sheer number of entries we can throw at this from every region")

On the one hand, I think they COULD fix it and on the other hand, it doesn't matter. I had a blast and if they continue with the rules they way they are, groups like BN will win, everyone else will roll their eyes and say, "congrats, real nice work guys" pretty sarcastically and pay attention to nothing but the individual medals.

 

[Bsquared]

2) I dunno... I think Quaff may have won... I thought I remembered them popping up for a lot of medals.

I was kinda expecting QUAF to win it, those guys put together one hell of an operation here in San Diego, they devote a ton of time and effort and their own money to promote home brewing, as well as BJCP classes and testing, and work hard with there members to put out brews that win competitions and really should have been recognized.

I don't think we are bitching, but maybe it is a good Idea for the HBT community to draft a letter to the NHC voicing this opinion.

 

[Cape Brewing]

I was kinda expecting QUAF to win it, those guys put together one hell of an operation here in San Diego, they devote a ton of time and effort and their own money to promote home brewing, as well as BJCP classes and testing, and work hard with there members to put out brews that win competitions and really should have been recognized.
.

I don't think (I could be totally wrong) it is a "recognition" thing. It is simply a matter of what club's members rack up the most medals. That's what folks are complaining about. You could have ten great brewers from all corners of the planet, rack up some medals, all put them under a "club" name that has no meetings, blah blah blah... and win "club of the year".

 

[wild]

Who's still wearing their NHC wristband? I am.

I cut mine off yesterday in Yuma.

 

[Shooter]

Who's still wearing their NHC wristband? I am.

Dude, cut it off. It's getting rank!!!

 

[user 47131]

Who's still wearing their NHC wristband? I am.

I figured it probably wasn't the best thing to be wearing when driving in case a cop pulled me over... Really enjoyed my first conference though and managed to hit 10 of the local breweries/micros, so very happy. Already looking forward to next year's!

 

[Shooter]

Below is one of my favorite shots from NHC. You may say that it's completely out of focus. You would be correct. However, this shot of Soper from day one of the conference captures the moment perfectly, primarily because it is so out of focus.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

I don't really care much about HCOTY but if there is anything that could make me care less about it, it would be that ginormous 'internet homebrew clubs' qualify to enter.

Just guessing here but my guess is that the NHC doesn't 'qualify' any club. It's simply a matter of which 'club' got entered under 'Homebrew Club' for the most medal winners, that's it. Considering the amount of work they already do and the number of people to do it, I'm not sure it will change much.

What will prob happen is what Cape said, it will be an award reduced to WGAFF (who gives a flying ****) status. It would also be a case in which the BN would be a laughing stock not to win; what with such a huge advantage.

 

[Shooter]

Already looking forward to next year's!

When I told my wife it was in Seattle next year she mentioned wanting to go. So, looks like I've already got the okay!!! :rockin:

 

[wreals]

Below is one of my favorite shots from NHC. You may say that it's completely out of focus. You would be correct. However, this shot of Soper from day one of the conference captures the moment perfectly, primarily because it is so out of focus.

I thought you'd post a photo of him, head out of the car, and yelling on the freeway.

 

[Shooter]

I thought you'd post a photo of him, head out of the car, and yelling on the freeway.

Of all the Soper moments, I, unfortunately, didn't capture that one.

 

[bob1852]

Who's still wearing their NHC wristband? I am.

My coworkers thought it was a hospital wrist band and asked "what happened at the beer conference?"

Given how much the Massholes give olllllo a hard time, I was pretty psyched he didn't just take a swing at me when we met (I would have blamed Paul).

That's 'cuz us AZ guys still think you're a 6'4" black guy, not a 5'6" white guy.

Either way, good times were had.

Yep. It was fun to be pouring next to your club at club night.

But... let's just say after I left the NHC yesterday I said to myself, "Gee... ya know... olllllo, Soper, AZ_IPA and some of the other guys... those guys were pretty cool and I want to be in ASH (their club) even though I'll never make a meeting", and I send ASH my dues. I can then send in all of my beers in as ASH?

FWIW - that's me. I'm ~200 miles away from ASH's home base, have been to more Austin Zealot events (an informal happy hour) that ASH events, have never been to an ASH meeting or happy hour, yet they're my club; in part because I do hope to eventually get more active in the club (other than driving 7 kegs, 3 CO2 tanks, and other booth related stuff to NHC , and wanted to be entering comps with a brick & mortar club (ASH) and not an on-line club (BN or HBT).

I sent them a real thank you and a very non-bitchy two sentences on BN. My guess is they'll get a lot of them.

Cape + non-bithcy? Riiiiiiiight.

Below is one of my favorite shots from NHC. You may say that it's completely out of focus. You would be correct. However, this shot of Soper from day one of the conference captures the moment perfectly, primarily because it is so out of focus.

That should titled: "NHC - as seen from Soper's perspective"


Overall: good times - already looking forward to Seattle!

 

[SPLASTiK]

Kind of interesting the BN website got hacked the next day...

I heard someone at the conference saying the BN had only won by like 2 points according to someone at the AHA but I don't know how accurate that statement is... I think the AHA realizes they're going to be on the receiving end of a lot of flack hence Janis repeating the whole, "according to the rules and regulations..."

 

[Saccharomyces]

Nice pic, Shooter. Love it!

 

[humann_brewing]

Yep. It was fun to be pouring next to your club at club night.



FWIW - that's me. I'm ~200 miles away from ASH's home base, have been to more Austin Zealot events (an informal happy hour) that ASH events, have never been to an ASH meeting or happy hour, yet they're my club; in part because I do hope to eventually get more active in the club (other than driving 7 kegs, 3 CO2 tanks, and other booth related stuff to NHC , and wanted to be entering comps with a brick & mortar club (ASH) and not an on-line club (BN or HBT).

yep, forgot to exchange beers with you but you got to taste all the ones I brought at any rate

Nice pic, Shooter. Love it!

Sacc, I am still in ahh over that serrano mead, you gotta let me know how much pepper and coconut you put in and when, I want that to have with thai food

 

[Saccharomyces]

Sacc, I am still in ahh over that serrano mead, you gotta let me know how much pepper and coconut you put in and when, I want that to have with thai food

I posted all of that in AZ_IPA's thread over in the mead forum.