2 serving lines out of 1 keg?

[JawZziff]

So I'm moving soon. This means more space and I can get back into brewing after too long a hiatus. This time around I'm making the switch to kegging so I've been doing my research.

The plan is to have the kegorator in the garage for when I'm out there working or we have gatherings out there. Plus no room in the house. For those occasional after work beers I plan to fill up a growler and keep it in the kitchen fridge. I've seen some cheap methods that say to shut off co2, release pressure in keg, turn on co2 to very low pressure (2-5psi about), and fill growler with a tube length attached to tap so as to reach to bottom of growler. Simple enough.

But a possible, hypothetical, could be a bad idea... just occurred to me. I've been reading up on appropriate line length to the tap as a way to regulate proper flow of beer. The longer the line the slower the beer flows, right? So what if you designed your "beer out" line to split to 2 different lines? One line goes to the regular serving tap and is optimized for pouring pints. The other line is much, much longer and goes to another tap to be used as growler fills. Same serving pressure in the keg but different pressures coming out of each tap due to line length.

I know, the simple solution to this is a flow control faucet but humor me. Could this work?

 

[day_trippr]

Absolutely could work - as long as that long run is kept cold...

Cheers!

[edit] For reference, Blichmann supplies a 10 foot length of 3/16" ID beer line with their "beer gun", then advises running the CO2 pressure at 6 psi (which would clearly be a significant reduction for most dispensing systems). I would start with at least double the length of whatever tubing you're using for the "normal" faucet if you don't want to be messing about with the CO2 pressure...

Cheers!

 

[GoeHaarden]

Interesting. Let us know if you get this to work.

 

[gnef]

My only concern would be plastic taint with that amount of line, and beer most likely sitting in it for extended periods of time.

If you are pouring a full 1/2 gallon growler, it may not be noticeable though.

The other random thought I had was turbulence at your splitter, depending on what kind of splitter you are using, but I don't think it would be that big of a deal.

 

[S-Met]

Seems like a little too much work for me. I'd just drop the pressure and get a growler filler to plug into your tap. I'd probably keep pressure low for most of the time and only turn it up when pouring for a group.

 

[JawZziff]

Absolutely could work - as long as that long run is kept cold...

Oh ya. I figure just coil it up on top of the keg with a picnic faucet.

My only concern would be plastic taint with that amount of line, and beer most likely sitting in it for extended periods of time.

If you are pouring a full 1/2 gallon growler, it may not be noticeable though.

The other random thought I had was turbulence at your splitter, depending on what kind of splitter you are using, but I don't think it would be that big of a deal.

Is plastic taint a thing? I've never heard of that before. And are you thinking the turbulence would cause more foaming? I suppose that's possible.

Seems like a little too much work for me. I'd just drop the pressure and get a growler filler to plug into your tap. I'd probably keep pressure low for most of the time and only turn it up when pouring for a group.

I agree, it's probably more work than necessary. Wouldn't keeping it at a lower pressure make the beer loose carbonation after awhile though?

 

[day_trippr]

- Some people are much more sensitive to PVC emissions than others. For those folks, PET lined tubing (eg: Bev-Seal Ultra 235) is a godsend. I, fortunately, have never detected any plastic flavor from my virtually generic Bevlex 200 solid PVC lines.

- I suspect there would be very little turbulence induced by the wye.

- If you were to drop the pressure the beer will indeed lose carbonation over time. But you'd only lower the pressure while you're filling your growler(s), and a short period of time won't affect the beer that much...

Cheers!

 

[JawZziff]

Right and that's most likely what I'll end up doing. But to "keep pressure low for most of the time" is what I would be worried about.

 

[day_trippr]

Ok, but again, if you find you actually have to lower the CO2 pressure to fill your growlers, just don't forget to put it back again when you're done. Simple. And folks do it all the time...

Cheers!

 

[S-Met]

If you are pouring so infrequently that you are keeping a growler in the house, then cut the gas between uses. Your growler will be carbed enough for the 1st pour, but mostly flat by day 2-3. You would probably enjoy the brew more by pouring from the tap.

If you pour a pint a day plus 2 on weekends, 5gal will last 1 month. 6.5 weeks for 12oz pours. Faster if wife/guests join, slower if you don't have a daily beer.

Alternatively, if you are killing a growler daily, you keg will pop in 10 days, 20 if its a growler every 2 days. Either scenario, I wouldn't worry about flat beer, provided that your beer was appropriately carbed prior to filling.

Drinking slower than this, or multiple kegs on tap: just disconnect gas when not in use.

 

[gnef]

Oh ya. I figure just coil it up on top of the keg with a picnic faucet.



Is plastic taint a thing? I've never heard of that before. And are you thinking the turbulence would cause more foaming? I suppose that's possible.



I agree, it's probably more work than necessary. Wouldn't keeping it at a lower pressure make the beer loose carbonation after awhile though?

I am definitely sensitive to plastic taint. There was a lengthy thread years ago that spurred the availability of bev seal ultra 235.

I have 14 taps, so some beers tend to sit in the lines for long periods of time. I came into the habit of pouring off the first 2 oz of beer before actually pouring my beer due to the lines. This is why I decided to change to bev seal ultra 235 tubing and 650ss faucets (longer story, but I needed the added restriction at the faucet).

Those that are sensitive to plastic taint can taste it when beer has sitting in the line for just 15-30 minutes or so, depending on the line, and the style of beer.

For me, it was a big enough issue to invest in this drastic change (it came out to around 1k$). That is why I think it could be an issue, especially if you are sensitive to it. It will depend on you, and anyone who drinks your beer though.

 

[SanPancho]

So what happens when you order a pint at a bar? Or do you not do that?

 

[gnef]

I would think that the vast majority of decent bars use barrier line like what many of us use (bev seal ultra 235) - it comes in trunk lines with integrated glycol lines as well.

Even if bars used cheap PVC tubing like what many of us use, their turnover rate is much higher, and they don't care so much about purging if needed.

Also, you can typically taste when a bar hasn't maintained their lines well or cleaned them on a regular basis - you shouldn't go back to those bars anyway.

 

[bruce_the_loon]

Getting back to the OP's issue, since you haven't built the kegerator yet, why not just get the flow control taps instead of the standard ones. You can then adjust the flow rate from the tap without having to fiddle with different lines or splitters and if you need different pressures for different styles, it's already there.

The flow control tap is more expensive, around $48 compared to $33 for a stainless steel one from a quick Google search, but might be cheaper to rig overall than a picnic tap and many extra feet of beer line.

 

[Sadu]

What line lengths are we talking about?

In general a longer line means you need a larger ID tubing so that the beer will still flow. The problem with that is that you end up storing a lot of beer in the line which can be wasteful.

 

[SanPancho]

The majority of bars use whatever the local distributor installed. For better or worse. My question is regarding your “sensitivity”- can you really pick up that taste in as few as 15 minutes in the line? What about soda lines? Soda machines/fountain drinks, etc? Same thing?

 

[gnef]

Here are a couple links, I just did a quick search:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/beer-line-tests-solution-to-the-plastic-taste.60380/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/plastic-taste.166087/

I'm pretty sure if I continued searching not only this forum, but others, there would be numerous accounts of people who can taste the plastic flavors leaching into their beers.

 

[JawZziff]

Getting back to the OP's issue, since you haven't built the kegerator yet, why not just get the flow control taps instead of the standard ones. You can then adjust the flow rate from the tap without having to fiddle with different lines or splitters and if you need different pressures for different styles, it's already there.

The flow control tap is more expensive, around $48 compared to $33 for a stainless steel one from a quick Google search, but might be cheaper to rig overall than a picnic tap and many extra feet of beer line.

This is most likely what I would do. I was going to do a cost comparison because I think you're right. Overall it may not even be worth doing and likely more of a hassle. I'm mostly asking hypothetically. If I can't even afford a flow control tap I would likely just suck it up and crank the pressure down for growler fills and hopefully remember to turn it back up after.

I don't dispute plastic taste would be a thing for some. Generally my taste buds aren't as sensitive as others so I doubt I would even notice.

 

[SanPancho]

And what about Soda? Wine on tap? Kombucha?

 

[gnef]

And what about Soda? Wine on tap? Kombucha?

Same for all, I would assume. If you read any of the literature for the barrier lines, they discuss many of them.

Although, I don't know why you are trying to come up with these other scenarios and continuing to diverge the conversation. It is well established that most PVC lines taint any liquid that is inside of it. If that is really what you are arguing against, please do your own research rather than be obstinate, because that first link goes through many details, if you actually read through it.

If you read about the barrier tubing, the literature discusses the types of beverages that can be served, and the necessary flushes that should be done, etc. If I recall correctly, the 235 tubing that many of us use now is rated for soda, beer, and even milk. The literature also goes into how the barrier line works and the purpose of it. It discusses the vinyl, the PET, the plasticizers used in the different PVC's (not all are the same, even though they are PVC, etc.) The research I did was years ago, so I may not recall everything about it though.

Please read what is out there, and then post a useful question based on facts.

 

[SanPancho]

Asking a question based on facts is forming a hypothesis.

Reading literature is for people who really care.

I’m neither.

I’m simply asking you a question. You claim sensitivity. I’m asking for your firsthand experience.

Is that not what this forum is for?

 

[JawZziff]

I am definitely sensitive to plastic taint. There was a lengthy thread years ago that spurred the availability of bev seal ultra 235.

I have 14 taps, so some beers tend to sit in the lines for long periods of time. I came into the habit of pouring off the first 2 oz of beer before actually pouring my beer due to the lines. This is why I decided to change to bev seal ultra 235 tubing and 650ss faucets (longer story, but I needed the added restriction at the faucet).

Those that are sensitive to plastic taint can taste it when beer has sitting in the line for just 15-30 minutes or so, depending on the line, and the style of beer.

For me, it was a big enough issue to invest in this drastic change (it came out to around 1k$). That is why I think it could be an issue, especially if you are sensitive to it. It will depend on you, and anyone who drinks your beer though.

You are right SanPancho, that is what this forum is for. And I believe in this post gnef answered your question about "firsthand experience".

If you would like to debate the issue further you are welcome to start your own thread.

Thanks.

 

[SanPancho]

if there is a debate going on, i am unaware. maybe thats the problem?

gnef did not actually answer the question there. he stated sensitivity to beer, which is referred to again and again. i was curious his experience with the others like soda, wine, etc. which he answered, later.

as for you- what you need is the elegant solution that was rigged up for pouring growlers without having to mess with different pressures and expensive faucets. it was designed to limit losses that occur from pouring growlers out of multiple taps/beer lines in the course of the day, but works just as well for single taps. which is what im assuming you have, although you've never stated exactly how many taps/kegs you have planned.

 

[JawZziff]

I have no keg gear yet. Thinking of 1 keg and 1 tap to start. My hypothetical system's purpose is to have 2 different flow rate options (2 taps, 1 for pints, 1 for growlers) from a single keg set at standard serving pressure and temp.