1st Lager can folks please look at this fermentation?

[redshift]

So I brewed my first lager an all grain Octoberfest from NB. OG 1.059. Pitched 4 packs of yeast in leu of a starter. Should have been about 320M cells based on production date. As I would expect fermentation has been slow to show signs. Today I have what I hope is krausen forming, but I'm a little worried at how different it looks than what I was expecting. I searched quite a bit looking for pictures of others fermentations in progress and found very few. For those who have an idea what this should look like, can you please offer your opinion?

 

[biertourist]

Lager fermentations are just crazy slow; some of the lager strains are NOTORIOUSLY slow, especially if you're pitching at 50F or lower still.

Different yeasts make different looking krausen; kettle finings can impact the way that krausen looks too (if you add too much, especially); also remember that everything in a lager fermentation happens in slow motion so you will definitely get to watch krausen form and transition to high and then low krausen. -You'll likely get a pretty significant evolution of sulfur when the yeast really starts chomping through the sugars, too; don't be worried it all goes with the territory of lager brewing. -In some ways it's exciting like your first brew all over again!

I'd say you definitely have plenty of yeast to fight off anything else given 4 yeast packets into what looks like 4 gallons of 1.059 lager; you should be good-to-go with a tasty lager when it's all said and done. Be sure to LEAVE IT ON THE YEAST long enough, though. The primary fermentation could take 10 - 14 days, if you have a diacetyl prone-strain, diacetyl reduction could take up to 2 weeks (although you pitched a TON of yeast so maybe not), just don't pull that thing off of the yeast and crash cool it too soon. GIVE IT TIME and it may be the best beer you've made.


Adam
P.S. Yes, I'm going a bit extreme with my examples of primary and secondary fermentation times but it's better safe than sorry and I want to change the perception that a magic diacetyl rest at 55F for 1 or 2 days is a magic timeline / remedy; that is NOT always the case; not by a long shot.

 

[beaksnbeer]

Relax, looks good

 

[redshift]

I appreciate the feedback thus far. I've never lost a batch yet, but this one was starting to worry me. My pic actually looks better than the way I looked at it with the naked eye. To my eye it looked like fluffy white mold! I should add that I used Wyeast 2633 Octoberfest blend. I think part of my lag may have been the way I had my temp controller set (which of course I'm also new to). Its a Johnson Controls and I had it set for 2 degree variance before kicking on. I was hitting 48 degrees sometimes when the freezer kicked putting me at the bottom range for this yeast. I changed it to 1 degree variance and bumped the freezer up to 52.

 

[redshift]

Oh, and thats a 6 gallon carboy, so it's close to 5 gallons of soon to be beer

 

[beaksnbeer]

I appreciate the feedback thus far. I've never lost a batch yet, but this one was starting to worry me. My pic actually looks better than the way I looked at it with the naked eye. To my eye it looked like fluffy white mold! I should add that I used Wyeast 2633 Octoberfest blend. I think part of my lag may have been the way I had my temp controller set (which of course I'm also new to). Its a Johnson Controls and I had it set for 2 degree variance before kicking on. I was hitting 48 degrees sometimes when the freezer kicked putting me at the bottom range for this yeast. I changed it to 1 degree variance and bumped the freezer up to 52.

I use a 5 degree swing on mine (air temp in the lagering area) set at 47* fermenter holds within a degree of 43*+/- for the first week then I drop 1 degree every 24hours down to 33*

 

[SpeedYellow]

So what was your actual lag time?

And what were the temps of the yeast and the wort when you pitched? Hopefully you didn't pitch room-temp yeast into cold wort.

 

[redshift]

Lag time was 3 days. Don't know exact temp of yeast, it was cooler than room temp, but not as cold as the fermentation freezer. Smack packs were expanded significantly (did the night before). Wort was in the 55-58 range which was as cold as I could get it with my immersion chiller. Our tap water is pretty warm this time of year so I pumped ice water through the chiller with a pond pump, but getting below the 68-70 range took quite a while and used every cube of ice I had in the house (15+ pounds!).

 

[progmac]

i have had lager yeast look like fluffy white mold in early fermentation. this is with a large starter and a cool pitch. just like what you're describing. it should transition to a sizable krausen within 4 or 5 days.

in summer, i find it easier just to cool the wort down to 80 ish and then let it cool overnight in my freezer and then pitch the yeast the next day.

 

[SpeedYellow]

So it sounds like your wort was like 10F colder than your yeast. And you then reduced the temps another 6-10F. There's your problem. Yeast do not like to be cold-shocked or have the temp dropped; they go into hibernation mode. A lot of folks have been posting about this problem lately.

By the way, the 5F air temp variance inside your ferm chamber is meaningless; your actual beer temp barely fluctuates.

 

[redshift]

 

[progmac]

hooray, beer will be here soon!

 

[g-star]

Congratulations on your krausen, but FYI for next time you under-pitched by at least 25% and tossing warm yeast into cold wort exacerbated your problem. 3 days is an excessive lag time for any beer, including lagers. This greatly increases chances of off-flavors.

Next time, grow up the proper number of cells with a starter, keep it at refrigerator temp and pitch the slurry into cold wort (44-46F), after oxygenation (NOT aeration). Allow it to warm slowly to 48-50F and hold it there. You will see activity in 8-12hrs and full krausen by 24hrs. Your lagers will jump from OK to spectacular.

 

[shelly_belly]

Looking good. Keep an eye on it. Contrary to popular belief, lagers can ferment as vigorously as ales.

 

[redshift]

I would like to thank everyone for their replies and guidance for the future! The good news is that part of my problem was just a lack of patience (surprise) and I do have some changes I can make in the future to do better. Its going to be a long time until I can enjoy the fruits of this labor.

Final question. I know that the only way to really know if it's time to do a Diacetyl rest is by taking a reading, but is there any visual clue to help me know that its time to start taking readings? I try to be in the camp of don't muck with it, don't open it, give it time to finish when I do ales, but in this case mucking with it seems mandatory.

 

[beaksnbeer]

I would like to thank everyone for their replies and guidance for the future! The good news is that part of my problem was just a lack of patience (surprise) and I do have some changes I can make in the future to do better. Its going to be a long time until I can enjoy the fruits of this labor.

Final question. I know that the only way to really know if it's time to do a Diacetyl rest is by taking a reading, but is there any visual clue to help me know that its time to start taking readings? I try to be in the camp of don't muck with it, don't open it, give it time to finish when I do ales, but in this case mucking with it seems mandatory.

I don't do d-rest anymore a vigorous yeast and cool temps work just fine (Traditional Lagering )

 

[SpeedYellow]

Actually your lack of patience was not a "problem." A 3-day lag is definitely NOT good, and is something you should diagnose so it doesn't happen again. Follow the advice above and you'll be fine.

 

[progmac]

Final question. I know that the only way to really know if it's time to do a Diacetyl rest is by taking a reading, but is there any visual clue to help me know that its time to start taking readings? I try to be in the camp of don't muck with it, don't open it, give it time to finish when I do ales, but in this case mucking with it seems mandatory.

Yes, do the diacetyl rest when the krausen starts to fall. So the first day you think, 'oh, that is less krausen then yesterday.' That is when you should pull it out and set it at room temp. I then keep it at room temp until the yeast clears from the surface. Sometimes this takes a week or more but usually not. I think at this point the biggest mistake you can make is to begin lagering too soon.