1st Lager (problem)

I cooled it to 75 before I pitched the German lager yeast. Left it overnight and I didn't notice any activity. In haste I decided it was too warm and refregirated it all day while I was at work. It's now 50 degrees. Still no activity, no foam in the inside of container.So I moved it into the coolest room in the house where I will bring it down to about 70 degrees and introduce dry ale yeast. Does this plan suck balls? Will I not be able to lager the beer now If I introduce ale yeast, or will it simply get the lager yeast moving, or did I kill the lager yeast. Sorry to ramble.
Any suggestions?
Thanks!

Relax, do not add anyhting. It is a lager not an ale so it is bottom fermenting. remeber that.

What kind of yeast did you use? Did you make a starter? What temperature was the yeast?

The first thing to do most of the time is nothing- starting a lager at 75 is not a great idea, but then sticking it from 75 into a fridge is also kind of harsh. Remember, yeast is a living organism and doesn't do well when it's shocked.

Fermentation can take 36-48 hours to start, and even longer in lagers when you don't use a starter. I'd put it at the temperature recommended on the package, and then check it (via SG, not airlock activity) in a couple of days. If you don't have the patience for that, I'd keep it at room temperature until the first hint of fermentation begins, then gently lower the temperature to the temperature recommended by the yeast manufacturer.

Remember that lagers are bottom fermenting, so you don't always see signs of vigorous fermentation.

I used White Labs German Lager yeast. It did not recomend a starter, just to take it out of the fridge a few hours before pitching. So it was aprox 70 degrees.

The package says 70-75 degrees is the ideal temp to pitch the yeast. So its out of the fridge now, and I'll just let it cool down. Hopefully later on in the week, I'll see some action.

Always do a starter on a lager. It is a lot to ask of an organism to ferment that much wort with so few cells at cool temps. I only have 1 lager under my belt, and it can be nerve wracking to not see active fermentation. Those yeasties are doing their job- just on the bottom, out of sight.

Thanks fellas. I noticed some activity this morning. I'll refrigerate it tonight, and then lager it at a lower temp.

As yooper (a fab lady, not a fella, btw) said, careful with those rapid temperature changes. The yeast really doesn't like that and can end up producing some funky off flavors in the beer. Bring the beer down to lagering temps (with minimal overshoot) and keep it there.

In the future, yeah, you should definitely do a yeast starter for lagers.

DZAMBA said:

Thanks fellas. I noticed some activity this morning. I'll refrigerate it tonight, and then lager it at a lower temp.

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Stop taking it in and out of the refrigerator. Just get it to lagering temperatures (slowly so you don't shock the yeast) and leave it there. Then forget about it.

Sorry Yooper!

I guess I was being rash putting it in and out of the fridge. When I re-read my post, I had a doh! moment. I'll slowly let the beer get to my lagering temp. Or should I wait till the primary stage has ended so I can rack it?

I like lagers....but can't brew them in the summer conditions are just plain too warm, stick with the ales at those temps for the future, or try a California Common recipe. Keep the temp as cool and steady as possible. If you really want to keep brewing lagers you will need a fridge to use for the fermentation process, customized with some temp controls to keep it at your lagering temp...Good Luck, and dont worry, it will still be beer when you are done.

DZAMBA said:

Sorry Yooper!

I guess I was being rash putting it in and out of the fridge. When I re-read my post, I had a doh! moment. I'll slowly let the beer get to my lagering temp. Or should I wait till the primary stage has ended so I can rack it?

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It's ok- I've been called worse then "fella!"

Ok, here's the scoop now- since it's started, slowly lower the temp until you're right in the middle of the fermentation range. I think you want to be in the 50-55 degree range with that yeast. So, when the carboy (not the ambient temperature) is fermenting in that range, leave it alone for at least two weeks. When primary is done, taste it for diacetyl. It may have a "slickness" or oiliness to it, or taste like butterscotch or buttered popcorn. If it does, raise it to 65-68 degrees for 48 hours (until it's better.) Then, it would be time to rack. Don't rack until fermentation is completely finished, and don't change the temperature until the end of fermentation when you do the diacetyl rest.

After that, you can rack to secondary and begin the lagering process. What I like to do is rack it, then slowly lower the temperature 5 degrees per day until you're at 34 degrees. Then you can lager for 4-12 weeks. If you're at 34 degrees, the longer time is beneficial. If you are at a higher temp (say, 45 degrees or so), you can lager for a bit shorter time. I like the colder temps, since I think it gives the smoothest, crispest result.

I can't wait to get out of my apartment so I can do a lager. I don't think my girl would put up with the smell that goes along with lager brews. But the question is, I've been looking at freezer chests, and where can I get a thermostat to more finely control the temp? And does it matter what brand for which controler I get?

dirtymike1 said:

I can't wait to get out of my apartment so I can do a lager. I don't think my girl would put up with the smell that goes along with lager brews. But the question is, I've been looking at freezer chests, and where can I get a thermostat to more finely control the temp? And does it matter what brand for which controler I get?

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Lots of guys get Ranco controllers for their freezers and love them. I think they have digital and analog controllers. Check in the equipment forum, or start a new post in there asking about them. I don't use one, so that's way above my level of expertise!

(In my experience, lagers don't smell any differently than ales- if you keep them at the "correct" temperature, the sulfur isn't really prominent at all)

I think I bit off a little more than I can chew. I don't have great control of the tempeture in the fridge, so it will be hard to slowly raise the tempeture, although it will take some time to lower the tempeture of 5 gallons from 70 to 50. Like dirtymike I am also in an apartment.

Thank you very much Yooper for your advice. I will try my best to follow it.

i think ranco or Love controllers are the most accurate/popular. I got my ranco single stage controller off of ebay. HTH