Can you Brew It recipe for Stone Arrogant Bastard

Looking at brewing this on the weekend.
However Can't get any nottingham.... I'd prefer to use dry yeast, as its cheap as chips Here.
Has anyone done this beer with Mangrove Jacks M07 British Ale?

More importantly, what is the grain bill looking like?


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TrickyDick said:

More importantly, what is the grain bill looking like?


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Using the nice and simple 90/10 pale/spec B with M07, adding some Acid malt for pH. using mostly the hop schedule, but using 50g @ F/O instead of the 25g suggested.

Let us know how it compares. I really don't think there is any special B in the real AB. I did before I brewed my version, but not afterward. I also think it's more than one specialty malt they use, at least now.


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Sorry all.... had to have emergency surgery is gonna lay me up for a few more weeks. However, as soon as I get a chance I will transfer the AB clone attempt to two cases of bombers and a 5g corny keg.

Excited to see if the CaraAroma is the missing link!

brewed a clone recipe with special-b,aromatic and biscuit before finding this thread...oh well

ok here is my 2nd version of this. I'm really enjoying drinking my version 1. This one should be a lot closer.
upping color by 3 srm by adding more c150, upping bittering for more bite. upping finishing hops for more late hop character. Also slightly higher ferment temps for a little alcohol taste.
I'll brew this this weekend.

1.077 og @ 75% eff.
wlp 007
srm 24.5
111 ibu
84.5% domestic 2 row
11.9% c150
2.7% c75
5 oz hops all chinook

2 oz @ 90 min.
.25 oz @20 min.
.25 oz @ 15 min.
.5 oz @ 10 min.
.5 oz @ 5 min.
1.5 oz @ 0 min.

fixitoscar - let us know how it turns out.

Brewing this this weekend.

Ok it's in the fermenter Great brew day. OG ended up 6 points higher than expected due to a better crush and improved procedures. Thanks goes out to Beer smith and the "5 steps to improved efficiency" that will help me be more consistent. Hydrometer sample already taste like SAB. Woo :rockin:hoo.

Cool. Be sure to let us all know how yours turns out, and post the grain bill when you do. try to do a side by side with a photo if you can. I am wondering if they are using hop extract with this now.

TD

EineProsit said:

Ok it's in the fermenter Great brew day. OG ended up 6 points higher than expected due to a better crush and improved procedures. Thanks goes out to Beer smith and the "5 steps to improved efficiency" that will help me be more consistent. Hydrometer sample already taste like SAB. Woo :rockin:hoo.

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So what version did you brew? post it up.

little update on my v2
I finally bottled it this last weekend. Color looks in there. hydrometer sample tastes awesome. really good nose much more late hop character. can't really judge the bitterness until its carbed and the malts drop out of the way. I have a really good feeling for this one. I'm sure its going to be a lot closer than my last version. Now the waiting game 3-4 weeks for carbing up. I need to start kegging.

90%/10% 2 row & Special B
75 Min mash,
4 Chinook hops @ 85/45/15/0
WLP007

I'll post some photos of the result

reddskinnfan said:

85% 2-Row
15% CaraAroma

P.S. My first runnings gravity, per refractometer, was 1.085. My Pre-boil gravity is 1.057 (expected 1.054). I had .25 gallon more volume than I expected (miscalculation on strike water amount), too.

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Okay. Flavor and aroma, to me, are spot on. My wife is picking up a couple Bombers of the real deal tonight, for comparative purposes.

Some pics, for color comparison. 5 gallons went into kegs, the other 5 gallons went into Bombers!

reddskinnfan said:

Okay. Flavor and aroma, to me, are spot on. My wife is picking up a couple Bombers of the real deal tonight, for comparative purposes.

Some pics, for color comparison. 5 gallons went into kegs, the other 5 gallons went into Bombers!

Click to expand...

I'm curiously following this thread and very interested in your results for the quest to the ultimate AB clone. I have a starter of 1098 ready to go any day... thinking about it, I should ramp it up another time, and save some out (I love yeast ranching). CaraAroma, huh? I remember pulling that sack off the pallet.

For you guys who know, is there a difference between bottled and tapped AB? The ones I had from tap were extraordinary, but never tasted any bottled versions.

reddskinnfan said:

Okay. Flavor and aroma, to me, are spot on. My wife is picking up a couple Bombers of the real deal tonight, for comparative purposes.

Some pics, for color comparison. 5 gallons went into kegs, the other 5 gallons went into Bombers!

Click to expand...

As soon as mine is carbed, I will do a side by side with the real Bastard.

Tony/Frits, want a Bomber to hold onto until it is carbed? I mixed up conditioning sugar to get to 2.4 vol co2.

reddskinnfan said:

As soon as mine is carbed, I will do a side by side with the real Bastard.

Tony/Frits, want a Bomber to hold onto until it is carbed? I mixed up conditioning sugar to get to 2.4 vol co2.

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Yes please! I really hope we can sample it someway before the next delivery

I'm ready to brew mine and based on your report I will now use CaraAroma instead of Munton's Dark Crystal (150°L) as I had originally intended.

Parallel to this AB recipe refining, I've been working on my self-inflicted Raging ***** clone "challenge." I've just removed the dry hops from the .v2 keg and the hop bite is mellowing out nicely already. I need to take some to a bar to do a side by side poured comparison. I noticed a huge difference between bottled Raging ***** and a fresh draft. In IPA world that's a common problem dealing with age and hop aromas, but it may extend to other ales too. Commercial bottling does change something.

Can't wait to see the side by side


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Mike: definitely would love a bomber!

Frits: I noticed the last bomber of AB I bought a few weeks ago was a lot harsher on the Chinook this time...that hop is infamous for its harsh qualities so I think there is some variation in AB from year to year based on this alone. I have had it bottled and on draft and have not noticed a huge difference, but unless you do a side by side, it is not a valid test. Taste memory is weak in us humans...grin!

reddskinnfan - how does CaraAroma compare to Special B? Have you tried both recipes?

stonebrewer said:

[...] but unless you do a side by side, it is not a valid test. Taste memory is weak in us humans...grin!

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And there we are comparing (and judging) beer all the time! I guess we just know what's good.

ultravista said:

reddskinnfan - how does CaraAroma compare to Special B? Have you tried both recipes?

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More red color than Special B. Flavor is less prune/raisin, more roasty/toasty. The aroma in CaraAroma, is what I believe, was missing.

My memory of the beer may be off, although I have had it within the last week (in bottle). I can say this for certain, if it isn't cloned it is the closest attempt yet.

My attempt i used:
pale malt 86.8%
C 150 9.4%
Special B 1.7%
briess Special Roast 1.7%
CaraPils 0.4%

Here is a pic showing color - mine was the darker one.
boil intensity was too low and mine wasnt as bitter
the malt profile is close but no cigar. too much raisin notes.
Not sure why I threw in the special roast.
Still looking forward the the 10% caraaroma side by side.

TD

TrickyDick said:

My attempt i used:
pale malt 86.8%
C 150 9.4%
Special B 1.7%
briess Special Roast 1.7%
CaraPils 0.4%

Here is a pic showing color - mine was the darker one.
boil intensity was too low and mine wasnt as bitter
the malt profile is close but no cigar. too much raisin notes.
Not sure why I threw in the special roast.
Still looking forward the the 10% caraaroma side by side.

TD

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Got a bottle at home. You wanna wait to see them side by side after carb or now? Color isn't going to change, and it will give me a reason to drink a bomber of AB!

P.S. it was 15% of CaraAroma.

reddskinnfan said:

Got a bottle at home. You wanna wait to see them side by side after carb or now? Color isn't going to change, and it will give me a reason to drink a bomber of AB!

P.S. it was 15% of CaraAroma.

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Forgot it has to carb still.

Wait till its ready, no since wasting a precious bomber of homebrew. Plus I'd really like the comparison tasting impression.

TD

Gents, If I could interject something I think it's important when talking about taste comparison of your brew verses commercial that we always know what the approximate date of each bottle is especially on high IBU beers, it serves everyone to hold some kind of standard of what we are judging and possible notes based on age, handling, and conditioning.
Also I think a 20+ minute whirlpool is a must at the end of boil for this beer...

docrw said:

Also I think a 20+ minute whirlpool is a must at the end of boil for this beer...

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For flavor & aroma hops to do their thing? How much do you suggest at whirlpool temps?

I'm not sure the best way to do this.

Lately, I've been splitting the flameout/whirlpool hops in two, and adding half at flame out and immediately chill and recirculate with immersion chiller, then once it's below 170°, I'll add the second half and continue to chill. Typically it takes a good 30 minutes or so to get below 100, and then I'll either continue to chill, or recirculate ice water through chiller, use plate chiller, CFC or whatever I'm trying out.

I have also done 20-30 minute stands without chilling and also done chill to 170 then add all the hops recirculate for twenty minutes and then resume chilling. Honestly, I'm not sure if there is a huge difference and would need to conduct experiments that I'm really not interested in doing, in order to develop a good understanding of which is the best way to go. I suspect also that hop variety will also play a role.

That said, my second year chinook hops are going bananas! Getting ready to harvest soon! Planning to use them in my next AB clone attempt.

TD


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Chinook on the left, Columbus on the right.


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I think Tricky's advice is as good as mine, I let it rest with lid off with immersion chiller in and running very slowly, drop the hops and stir gently for 20 minutes, my hop schedule is different than these recipes also (private still) Tricky I can't believe those hops are ready, they love heat but do you get mildew down there?

ultravista said:

For flavor & aroma hops to do their thing? How much do you suggest at whirlpool temps?

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I just drop in after I turn off the flame. I cover the BK with a lid and wait 5 minutes. Then I start to chill with plate. I use whole hops.

Same here, drop the hops into a hop basket after flame off, then I recirculate while I chill through the basket so the hops are constantly being bombarded by moving wort. My plate chiller got me below 90 in 20 minutes yesterday so the flameout hops don't really cook. I have found in doing this that I get an IIPA whose aroma and flavor lasts a loooong time.

BTW this year my hops went wild. Almost time to harvest!! Probably will get two pickings this year...time for a wet hopped, farmhouse ale!

stonebrewer said:

Same here, drop the hops into a hop basket after flame off, then I recirculate while I chill through the basket so the hops are constantly being bombarded by moving wort. My plate chiller got me below 90 in 20 minutes yesterday so the flameout hops don't really cook. I have found in doing this that I get an IIPA whose aroma and flavor lasts a loooong time.

BTW this year my hops went wild. Almost time to harvest!! Probably will get two pickings this year...time for a wet hopped, farmhouse ale!

Click to expand...

What varieties do you have?

I have columbus, cascade, centennial, nugget, mount hood, sterling, and williamette. Nugget is a beast this year!Last year it was Columbus.

Nice! It only have room for about four half barrels with coir twine to the eaves. Have some steel wire connected to the coir and some eyebolts serve as a pulley system for lowering the entire bine(s) for easy picking. sterling (not doing well), centennial Columbus, and chinook. The last two doing great this year.

Need to build a a dryer....


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So, here it is!

Color is VERY close. Mine is on the right. It might be 1 SRM off and most likely just needs to clear a little more. Grain taste is so close it's hard to tell them apart!!! Hops are tad (and I mean VERY little) more toward the bitter end of spectrum in the real deal AB, but again hard to tell. Aroma is a little more fruity in the clone attempt, but that is probably the yeast (since Stone's yeast is actually proprietary). Hop flavor is spot on!

All in all this is a success and a step in the right direction! Put side by side, I don't think anyone would be able to discern which is which.

My next attempt will be:

Grain:

85% 2-Row
15% CaraAroma

Hop additions:

3 oz FWH
1 oz 20
.5 oz 15
.5 oz 10
.5 oz 5
.5 oz 0

-Mike

Sorry, looks like images didn't load....

The beer also has only been in bombers for a week!

So CaraAroma is spot on vs. Special B or C150/120?

Do you have the recipe in Beersmith?

No question, IMHO!

Good to know! Thanks for being the guinea pig on this one. I think I may have to try this for myself and possibly use fresh home grown hops for the late additions. Color does look very very close. Do you detect any missing roasty flavors? I swear I could pick up some in commercial brew.

TD